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Messages - motorman

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General Discussion / Re: Pair of ZL1 COPO's... at Auction.. :)
« on: January 24, 2018, 04:31:54 PM »
the buyer most likely had a big capital gains tax to pay and now since he reinvested the money in a collector car he skips the capital gains taxes for now.  it is like the charity auctions all the money over the list price they pay is tax deductible.

General Discussion / Re: JohnZ, say it ain't so?
« on: December 13, 2016, 12:54:36 PM »
from another website.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just learned that John is now in Hospice care and the outlook is for approx. 1 week.

why would any original owner want to get involved after what happened to me on my Z/28 ???

General Discussion / Re: EO Z28 at Mecum Kissimmee 2016
« on: December 22, 2015, 07:55:11 PM »
Clem, Please keep your posts civil so that your valuable contributions will not be deleted. I understand there is a lot of pride on both sides of the issue. However, the experts who are sticking by their opinions are core members of this site and personal attacks will get deleted. Just sayin!

One of my favorite posts from the beginning of this whole debacle was Jerry Macniesh saying
Evening Orchid was not available in 1969... End of story.
That of course was just the beginning of the story. Now at Mecum, there will be the car hyped up as a 1 of 1 special paint and an expert written appraisal of the car stating it is just a standard color with a stripe delete, which is certainly not that rare. Should make for interesting TV.

This certainly has been an interesting story on many boards, not just here and Team Camaro, but on several other boards as well. Some brought up an interesting point that there was a light purple color available in 1969. Is it possible that you requested "Evening Orchid" and the paint used was actually called "Sunset Silver", which is what that light purple color was called in 1969?

1969 Buick in Sunset Silver:

that color is still a long way from Cortez silver that was a std color for a 69 Z/28

General Discussion / Re: EO Z28 at Mecum Kissimmee 2016
« on: December 22, 2015, 07:21:19 PM »
I would have never ordered a car in a "silver" color as mrs clem wanted a purple car but it turned out to be not purple enough for her. orchids are purple in color and I was familiar with EO from other GM cars painted that color. I think people are using that sunset silver argument to cover their behinds

General Discussion / Re: EO Z28 at Mecum Kissimmee 2016
« on: December 21, 2015, 02:52:24 PM »
Clem, you have a huge amount of experience and knowledge that could be beneficial on this site. 

But we need to move on. Please don't keep bringing up this topic. It is not productive.

It would be awesome if you could share some information on rebuilding and/or tuning carbs.  Maybe in the restoration section.   
I did not bring it up and some posters here like doubting of original owners who show up with paperwork.  I think you should dress them down not the original owners. I would think original owners with paperwork would be welcome here. I guess I was wrong. 

General Discussion / Re: EO Z28 at Mecum Kissimmee 2016
« on: December 21, 2015, 01:54:11 PM »
kurt if you post facts here you get banned but if you post your opinion that is OK  ??? I don't think that is fair, do you ???

General Discussion / Re: EO Z28 at Mecum Kissimmee 2016
« on: December 21, 2015, 02:44:56 AM »
I don't think it will bring that kind of money either; that's just sellers/auctioneers trying to get rich off gullible buyers with more $$ than sense at these large tv collector car auctions.. :)    The controversy over the 'color' was just that, a difference of opinion between 'evaluators' 45 yrs later attempting to judge what color was sprayed at the factory, and the owner who paid for it to be done, and the salesman who wrote up the order for him.  The issue is whether it was actually evening orchid, OR another very similar GM color.  There is no issue as to the fact that it was a special order paint (I don't think.. it certainly isn't in my mind as the original owner told myself and several others many years ago that he had special ordered such a car for his wife - JohnZ was involved in that discussion at Carlisle Vettehead tent, many years before the car was found and restored).. :)

I do think it is a very special car due to the 'special order paint' (and the story behind it) which adds some value to its 'restored real Z28' value, but to me that 'extra value' would not be $150K..  :)   if you HATE the color, it might even be worth less than an equivalently restored red, orange, or silver car... :)

  gary you had better stop posting facts here or you could be banned also.  :D

General Discussion / Re: EO Z/28 is back
« on: August 02, 2015, 04:55:33 PM »
All valid points - I know I would lift the reserve for $100k profit in 7 months & most people would. (Especially on a +\- $60-65k investment!)

I think Bullitt is onto something there.

Not to beat a dead horse....but JM has certified & inspected hundreds (if not a thousand+) of first gen Camaro's. BJ has him certify their Camaro's & he has literally written the book on these cars. His certifications and reputation are beyond reproach IMHO.
yes BUT ne made a mistake on my car.

General Discussion / Re: EO Z/28 is back
« on: August 02, 2015, 04:54:27 PM »
*deleted - inappropriate*

General Discussion / Re: EO Z/28 is back
« on: August 02, 2015, 01:54:44 PM »
it was fun as I was there and the car attracted people all day long. the seller also had a cross ram rear brake Z/28 the did not meet reserve. he has sold 30 plus Z/28s. the owner was impressed how many people came up and told him they knew me and I had worked on their cars.

General Discussion / Re: EO Z/28 is back
« on: July 18, 2015, 11:52:26 PM »
Hey Clem you seem to follow this car closely, any interest in owning it again?

not really as I explained above. the owner called me up and offered for me to come to the auction so I will go.

General Discussion / Re: EO Z/28 is back
« on: July 18, 2015, 10:51:46 PM »
Original owner should buy it back.


Seems like there is so much interest in it, why not just buy it back?
unlike most people here on the board I owned 68 and 69 Z/28 when they were new so I have moved on to new corvettes. I can see no fun in owning a used car.  :D

General Discussion / Re: Time to buy a real deal ZL-1!
« on: April 22, 2015, 08:13:33 PM »
....I've dug a bit more and found three more vintage photos of COPO 9561 cars. Two have the decal, one does not. As for the statement “The ones I've seen doesn't have the sticker on the lid....” the only vintage photo you could have seen is the one I mentioned. Only two ZL1s were photographed in the day; the #3 ZL1 is the other but the air cleaner lid is not present in the photos. I’d like to see photos of the other 98% before concluding none of them had the label. I’ll bet every restored ’69 Z/28 has a 302 label on the air cleaner but the January ’69 Hot Rod feature of an 09D LA Z/28 shows the factory did forget on occasion. Could they have just forgotten on some COPOs?

So what did I do when putting the finishing touches on ZL1 #4 27 years ago? No 427 label. But I have no problem with ZL1 #6 having the label. It is entirely possible it was built that way.

Great work, William, I really appreciate it!
Do you have the pics to show us or aren't they digital maybe?
I just found a pic with the sticker! The two I've seen so far is this, are they authentic you think?

Well spoken there, X33RS, I think you have a point! :)
How about another curve ball thrown in...

This may be reaching but I see it entirely possible (this happened alot with fan caution decals in the Ford camp when cars came in for service)   Since alot of these cars didn't sell right away, alot were sent back or distributed around the country at various dealerships....Isn't it entirely possible that those dealers, or even Gibbs himself saw fit to run over to the parts department and stick "427 decals on themselves when the cars were only days or weeks old??

I mean, without the decal, and no identification on the outside of the car, I'm sure there were alot of people back then that didn't know what they were looking at, and could have easily mistaken the cars for 396's that cost $7,000.   Since they were a hard sale I could see dealers doing things to push these cars out the door.  The iron block COPO's had air cleaner could it be possible that dealers thought,,,,hey why not??

Just a thought, and speculation on my part, but a possibility.  Either way I certainly wouldn't kick it out of the garage just because of a $6 decal.  Just buy another lid and switch it back and forth.  If you can afford the car, you can afford another air cleaner lid  ;D

What I do like about this hobby is that there are still original unrestored cars out there that show things weren't always cut in stone, and some people aren't afraid to restore a car that doesn't follow what is widely accepted as correct.  William has posted enough information to suggest that sticker or no sticker is entirely possible.   What pains me are restorations that are done on original cars, and things are changed just because that's what is accepted in the main stream or due to peer pressure with judges and the like.   I have an unrestored car here that has a few oddities about it, but are viewed as entirely possible by other "supposed" experts that have seen the car.  So I don't necessarily see this decal issue as incorrect.

You're absolutely correct...  There ARE differences from the factory (from 'commonly accepted and written' absolutes).. and then, just as now, dealers DO make changes to the cars in their inventory to make them more 'saleable'.  There are *many* differences in late '69 delivered Z28 (and probably other Camaros as well)... which originated in the factory(s)...
like EO paint correct ????

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