Messages

1

General Discussion / Temp guage reading

« on: August 02, 2020, 03:20:27 PM »

I have a 69 z with the 302. What is the 'normal' temp guage reading?

After starting and driving the car, the temp guage moves slowly (within about 5 minutes) from cold to 3/4 of the way to the top (just below the grey shaded area below the 'H') and stays there. This is in 80 to 90 degree weather.

The engine does not seem especially hot. I also used an infrared thermometer. The top radiator hose read about 175 degrees and the bottom hose read about 155 degrees.

2

Originality / Re: Original exhaust system?

« on: July 11, 2020, 02:31:29 AM »

So for the sake of keeping the car as original as possible, the interim system that was basically the '68 style deep-tone system (single transverse muffler without resonators correct?) would be most appropriate?

The N10 system is what you are referring to as the standard exhaust system?

Are there any performance differences between the interim system and the N10 system?

The exhaust pipe size is 2" or 2 1/4"?

3

Originality / Original exhaust system?

« on: July 10, 2020, 03:21:53 PM »

Does anyone know how to tell what type (chambered vs. transverse, etc.) of exhaust system came on this car originally from the factory? VIN 124379N566465. I think I am going to have to replace it.

It currently has a chambered system on it but I doubt it is the original one.

Any suggestions on whether to go with aluminized or stainless or which vendor to use?

4

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Body/cowl tag - is it original

« on: June 02, 2020, 10:40:39 PM »

Richard,

The reason I actually started barking up this tree is because I have a chunk of money in the bank that is making basically zero percent interest. I really don't want to be gambling on the stock market at my age, and there seems to be no good place to invest money other than that, so I figured an in-demand classic car may be a good investment - especially if I can get one that I really like - like the '69 Camaro. Hopefully it would still be in demand when I need to sell it (about 25 years I am thinking).

The car would be parked most of the time and just driven in town a few times a month. It won't be raced or be a daily driver. The primary purpose of having the car would be for an investment.

I don't know that I have a strong opinion or desire about the driving/performance characteristics of the car. As long as it drives OK and doesn't break down a lot it should be fine.

What options beyond a Z were you thinking of? I started looking at Z28's because they seem to be more in demand and will be a better investment than the RS/SS etc. The problem is that they are more expensive. I have always liked the '69 Camaros. Were you thinking of different cars?

5

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Body/cowl tag - is it original

« on: June 02, 2020, 09:28:40 PM »

I just found out yesterday that the car has a 4.10 rear end - I had thought it was a 3.73.

I actually have a '77 Toyota Celica liftback that has a 4.10 rear end (previously it had a 3.53) and I really like it. It runs about 2,000 rpm at 50 mph, of course that is in 5th gear. I think it runs about 2,800 rpm at 50 mph in 4th gear, but I would have to check. It has slightly bigger tires on the rear which I had thought I might do on this car as well, so it compensates for the bigger tires.

This car will rarely (if ever) be driven on the freeway, so I am assuming that the 4.10 rear end will be tolerable, especially if I put some bigger tires on the rear. You may be right - it may be a little too many revs and too much shifting. I will know a little more after I drive the car.

I really appreciate the input and food for thought. It is making me consider some things I hadn't thought of.

I guess the bottom line is that I am looking for a car that is a decent investment, that is within my budget, that I like the look of, and that I like driving. I have always thought the '69 Camaro is my favorite classic car. While I would love an all-original Z that is in fantastic condition, I can't afford it. It seems like I am either going to have to sacrifice originality or condition (rust, etc.), but it doesn't seem like I can afford both on my budget.

6

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Body/cowl tag - is it original

« on: June 02, 2020, 08:38:09 PM »

Yeah, it is not as original as I had hoped. Wish I had seen that one on ebay. It seems like it was a pretty good deal. I guess all it had against it was some rusted panels that needed to be patched, and then a repaint would required I assume. That would mean the price of a paint job I was not counting on ($3-$20k I assume).

Aside from the one I am looking at and this one on ebay, I haven't seen any '69 Z28's (original or not) for less than about $54k. I haven't been watching ebay though, just classiccars.com and autotrader classics and craigslist. Have you seen many Z28's in this price range?

Is the wierd support you are referencing in the pic the tranny support? Could that and the rest of the stuff on this car that is not original be swapped out for the real stuff without too much cost? I actually wouldn't mind doing that if it is cost-effective. I think I can get the car for around $42-$43K.

I kind of like the Mist Green color. I guess it's not the best for resale? I haven't seen that many.

The reason I was looking at this car is because it has no rust and it was what I thought a pretty good price - and it is relatively close to me. I was thinking it was not a bad deal if it at least it had an engine, tranny, etc. that had period-correct date codes even if they were not original.

Can you still actually get the parts to build a 302 (crank, heads, etc.), on a NAPA block?

7

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Body/cowl tag - is it original

« on: June 02, 2020, 06:32:30 PM »

Thank you all for all the useful information!

Now that I know that at least the body/trim tag is authentic/original, I will make it a priority to check the cowl tag under the air vent on the passenger side to see if it matches the VIN on the dash when I go to see the car in a couple of days. If that looks good, I will go on to the rest of the car.

I now need some additional information and/or opinions. Forgive the long post, I can't think of any way to shorten it.

I talked to the previous owner of this car (he owned it for 6 years) yesterday and he told me the following about this '69 Camaro X33 car:

- When he bought the car (around 2013) it had a 327 engine in it. He shopped around and found all of the parts (used) to replace it with a 302.
   - 350 block (4 bolt mains) from a '70 Impala (dated '69 )
   - GM/Holley carb (rebuilt) for Z28
   - Intake manifold for 302
   - Valve covers (finned) for 302 (not drippers)
   - 302 crank
   - Aftermarket pistons (he thinks they were TRW)
   - Deep groove pulley for crank, none of the others are

- He rebuilt the resulting 302 engine and it was in the car until he sold it.
 .
- The car had front disks but no power steering. He installed power steering from a '70 Impala with new pitman and idler arms.   

- The 4 speed transmission (Muncie I assume) in the car is rebuilt and is from a '69 Corvette.
- He believes the car has a 4.11 rear end. Does not know if its original to the car or not.
- He replaced the front coil springs with the 'correct' Moog springs.
- The car had 5-leaf springs when he got it. He removed two of the springs to improve the ride, so there are now 3 leafs. 
- He does not know if the cowl induction hood on the car is original or not. The car has been repainted to the factory color.
- It has no spoiler on the rear trunk lid.
- It has a '71 steering wheel from Camaro or Impala (or something).
- No panels have been replaced that he knows of.


The current owner bought the car from the previous owner about a year ago. A few months ago the engine broke/blew a valve.

He had the engine rebuilt to what he says are true 302 specs:
- Sleeved cylinders #7 and #2 (apparently scored, etc.) and replaced two pistons.
- Washed and replaced cam bearings and freeze plugs.
- Reman rods
- Ground the crank
- New Z28 solid cam and lifters
- Everything machined/honed as necessary.

He says the shop/mechanic that did it has done many. I talked with the mechanic who seems competent.

The engine was installed in the car and now has less than 100 miles on it. I heard it run on a video. it sounds good.


Well, there is everything I know. From the research of cars for sale that I have done, the car seems to be a good value - unless there are any red flags that I am missing.

What do you guys think?

8

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Body/cowl tag - is it original

« on: June 01, 2020, 02:53:10 AM »

What does it mean that the car is, or is not on the CRG list(s)?

Thank you guys for your help. I feel much better prepared now to examine this car, and I have learned a heckuva lot.

9

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Body/cowl tag - is it original

« on: May 31, 2020, 04:51:44 PM »

I get it now... the original VIN tag should (hopefully) stay with the car. It is the window in the dash pad that is the issue. Makes sense that people should not be manufacturing repro/replacement/counterfeit VIN tags.

Well, this is a real education.

10

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Body/cowl tag - is it original

« on: May 31, 2020, 04:28:08 PM »

William - thanks for the reply. Wow... this more complicated than I thought it would be.

So, if a repro dash was installed, would it come with a repro VIN tag (like apparently was done here)? If so, why would the VIN tag need to be removed from the original dash? And where would it be reattached to the car?

Here in Arizona, they have never visually inspected any cars I have purchased in other states. Do they do a visual inspection on cars that are older like this one?

How would the hidden VIN stampings not match the dash VIN tag if the VIN on the repro replacement dash is the same as the original VIN?

Many thanks for the help!

11

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Body/cowl tag - is it original

« on: May 31, 2020, 08:30:11 AM »

How can you tell the upper dash panel has been replaced?  2 hidden partial VINs?

12

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Body/cowl tag - is it original

« on: May 31, 2020, 03:54:48 AM »

124379N618321

13

Decoding/Numbers / Body/cowl tag - is it original

« on: May 31, 2020, 03:24:41 AM »

I am considering purchasing this car. I have done a lot of research to prepare, but I am wondering if those here with experience can tell me if this tag looks original or not. Thanks for any help and/or information!