Messages

1

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 25, 2018, 03:01:29 AM »

So.. Excellent points re the One of One!

It's not how much the car is worth to him.  He's helped build dozens and dozens of cars, but he did this one himself.  He just wants to document her properly.  To explain to people how special she is.  I suppose trying to drill down through all the numbers to find N711022 is unique, is my natural tendency as a numbers guy, to determine 'special'.  But I'm getting your point, and will have to rethink what makes something 'special'

I like the fact N711022 has the big block and the M22.  The super scoop hood... (Stop using cowl GM never said cowl in anything. Air induction hood is valid)

There was little expense spared.  And hugger orange is all over the place yes... even somewhat cliche. But with a black interior.  And nothing against fellas with black interiors... but the orange orange to me, is awesome.  I suppose I wanted all you guys to say oh wow cool yep shes unique.   But the skepticism and tendencies for people to fake all this stuff blows my mind.  You have to spend so much time proving it is a 'real' car (and rightly so!) I've sorta gotten lost in the details.  But the details are so interesting for a guy who likes numbers, and cars!! This car is real, you can put her in the registry, and it may never change ownership again. 

I guarantee I will be able to spot a 69 from this point on and be able to talk to the owner about options and engines. I'm actually racing against a 69 Camaro in September.  It's on the Targa Newfoundland entry list if u wanna look.  I'm pretty sure it is a full race car 69 though, nothing original about her.   But still, cool.  A 65 Mustang, full race car.  My cousin in his 2018 ZL1-1LE..  And me!!!  ANd about 35 or 40 others. Come up for a race byes.. I'll get ya a deal!! 

Thanks,

Mike

2

General Discussion / Re: 1969 M22 breakdown of Quantities

« on: August 21, 2018, 12:20:55 PM »

"Does that mean the J50 total of 82,890 includes the 34,932 J52 total"

I see the J52 total as 67,231 on the option sheet. William?

Thanks.

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Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 21, 2018, 12:14:16 PM »

I've never read a Marti report.  Have never done research on any cars until now.  Not even a Ford.  And now I know more about the history of the 69 Camaro than any Ford. Ever.  I absolutely love my cousins 2018 ZL1-1LE.  Rather her than the vette anyday.  Looks waaaay better imho.

Ok.  What do you think about:

There were only about 4,889 1969 X22's built.  ?

MA

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Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 20, 2018, 02:18:07 PM »

Wow.  Just read your thread on 1969 M22 breakdown of Quantities. I think I am starting to understand RPOs and then you blow my mind with these underlying ECL code combinations and possible permutations.  FU&K. I agree the data is so complex it would probably be misinterpreted.  However I don't know if that is a good reason not to publish the 'best guesses' and compilations of (extremely) knowledgeable people.  That would be better than simple conjecture without basis on fact.  I know data.  And Mcneish may be the data collection expert... But you forum gurus understand it best. 

SO.  William. What is your best guess on M22's?  For the L78?  There were seven installed in the ZL1.  That leaves 2110.   I would like to know what is your current database spread of M22s across the solid lifter engines?  I didn't realize until recently the M22 was NOT available to the SS396/350, SS396/325 and SS350

I sent more pictures to Kurt.  Not sure if it is enough to convince you fellas but I am extremely confident. She's real, she's pretty much original, and much love and care has been put into her.  He took 8 years restoring her.   The only non-matching part is the M22 which has been replaced properly. The vehicle came to Newfoundland in 1972, he is the fifth owner. We know all the previous owners and can trace the car from original sale. What else should I find out? I will take his word at this point all the remaining tags match.  Are there any verification services ie Mcneish available in Canada?  I will admit I had no idea HOW MANY fakes are out there.  And some don't care.  But we do.

So my end of day question is how to quantify (with available data/best guess) how many Orange - Orange RS SS X 22 D80 396 375 M22's are out there?  Can I say in a document, to all available knowledge inventories, and registries, there isn't another one like N711022 ?) I'm picky about my facts.  And appreciate you all are too.  Appreciate all the blurbs.  You guys know stuff that is not written anywhere.  Period.  Very impressive inferences.  Thanks again.  MA

5

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 18, 2018, 12:10:32 PM »

Yeah the owner is a bodyman, and has been painting cars for years and years.  When he rebuilt her he painted it that way...how he wanted it.  Were the hugger orange cars called Halloween cars? And the exhaust.  I thought in mid 69 they introduced the NC8 chambered?  So what should be the proper stock SS exhaust on an 11A? 

Pics of what I have are sent to Kurt. 

Thanks again all!!

6

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 18, 2018, 02:31:28 AM »

Thanks James.

So got more pics and a little more information.  The owner doesn't want me to post any tags so I will send the couple I was able to get, to Kurt?  What is the email please?  Thanks again fellas.  Story is coming along!!

Mike

7

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 10, 2018, 06:04:07 PM »

Tonight I am going to check for the front stabilizer bar.  She has the COPO 9737 (Sports Car Conversion Package) options. 

I've never researched a classic car like this before.  Nothing before a 1990 Ford.  I find it fascinating.

I understand some options were within others. But a pattern I am seeing, is the 427 cars were more racers, not cruisers.  Same w Z28. So yes you got a little more horsepower at times but the SSRS396 w comfort and the M22/375hp seems to be best of both worlds, yes?  Orange on orange is bold but I like it.  My buddy likes it.  He's the type of guy if a person walks into his shop and wants something stupid or non-standard or proper for a camaro.  He wont do it.  He will say go elsewhere.  He LOVES these cars.  I'm a Ford guy but fellas, I officially am now a 69 Camaro fan too.  Much thought and love and admiration went into these machines that, were the start of passion and innovation, in many future motorsport arenas.  Way more impressive than the Mustangs of the era.

He has computer data with all the tags, better pics, more stuff that came with the car when he bought it.

And I'm pretty sure there IS a M22 in HER.  But it's not a number's matching.  Everything else, and I mean everything, has matching tags..

What are the small things re restoration?  I mean he has an original battery unfilled, original tires, not on.  Stuff like that maybe.  Please specify so that I can inquire. 

Thanks!

8

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 10, 2018, 01:26:42 AM »

So the pictures don't seem to be doing much for you guys, so I will pose some questions...And yes, I went through the Ask-CRG archives first. (Very specific entries un-indexed; should break them down into categories so we don't have to wade through so much)

What entailed the V48 special antifreeze? any hardware changes? Why no numbers? Can I see other sheets with that code somewhere? Any units have it, that were not destined for Canada?

Was the M22 muncie HD 4-speed the one used with the 427?  It was (pretty much) a COPO unit order correct? Rockcrusher? What do you have similar in the database? With the muncie? Especially non-COPO cars?

That hood.  It's a special one for sure.  LOVE the page w the info on the Cowl hood. Loved the information on the special interiors...where the woodgrains are, and what parts, depending on option. Excellent job figuring all that out and documenting it so well. (711022 has them all I think!)

I would love to have more data on the K05 Engine Block Heater Option.  Not every Canadian destined car had one obviously.  So were there US cars with them optioned (of the 2124) as well?

What is the breakdown of orange exterior's, orange interiors (I’ll settle for number of entries of this orangeorange colour combo in database besides 711022).  Would love to know how many orange black, orange orange, white orange?   Can someone show me some pics of other non-pace SSRS396's w orange houndstooth? Not even the orange orange, just w the orange interior.

How many cars (in your esteemed opinions until I can access this wonderful data) (relative I know) are similar to N711022?  If I were to be specific I would like to see everything registered, that was built in that two or three week period at Norwood, up to the end of production, especially the last 1500 or so car range (gives me both sides of her.)  I'd need that to make my inferences. How many entries are even in your database for this end of production range?

Good writeup on the Fisher tags.  It all makes more sense now. Related (sorta) correction for you? From your pacecar article ----
The Norwood cars will also have Z11 stamped on the cowl tag. The LA cars were not stamped with Z11 on the tag, but the colors codes on the tag confirm that it is a pace car "since no other Camaro convertible received houndstooth interior."
--(Not true. There was one. A Z28 Convertible w orange houndstooth was built for one of the GM execs.  He used it as a daily driver for a bit.)

Where do I find examples of Canadian build sheets; American build sheets, all sheets!!?? Yenko has a nice database. Does one exist for SSRS396’s?

"Any SS Camaro, especially when combined with the RS package, and/or with an original big-block motor, is also desired."  You guys say...  Is this a desirable car?  To me, that would be subjective… but I would really like to hear your opinion and answer all the same. 

I will also ask then, is this a rare car? And could you try to quantify that for me William please? Your prior information helped immensely.  But I'd like more! How does she rate among her peers of 396SSRS’ w M22 Muncies, is my bottom line question.  And how many more are out there?

Great stuff guys.  Great stuff.  You handle your data and information very well.  I used to work for IBM in Business Analytics and Optimization wish everyone worked it like you do. Heading back to my buddies with all the 69's this weekend.  I’ll get more pics.  Want anything on the yellow one?  I’ll get the interior of 711022 for you as well. And I can send the high res via email to someone but I need an email address.  The system won’t give it to me.

Thanks in advance for your great answers to my questions!!

9

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 08, 2018, 09:04:12 PM »

He used to drag race this one.  She got to 10.001.  Never could get her under haha.  Street and shows now but he drives her a fair bit.  He has a switch, and it separates the friggin exhaust header into a side pipe somehow.  You should hear here, even when switching the modes.  I've never heard anything remotely like it and I've been running race pipes for years.  She is wicked.

10

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 08, 2018, 08:55:47 PM »

Thanks for the option sheet Cook !!!

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Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 08, 2018, 08:54:57 PM »

wow wow WOW.  WILLIAM !!  hahahaha good stuff man.  I like how you work numbers and your best guesses seem extremely well thought out based on available FACT.  Im-pressive sir.  I have so many questions.  How do I extrapolate the number of options like you are?  Where is the data?  Awesome dude.  Awesome.

I LOVE that you use the updated COPO numbers and other factual references.  My friend had an old book, that lists end of production 22 before his VIN.  In a very well respected camaro book by MacNeish.  He showed me the page.  That was wrong.  Why he thought she was 22 AFTER production.  The book said 711000 was end of line.  So I told him, for the first time.  That she was actually about 900 before the end of the run, and left him a printout of your data stating what I believe, the accurate number.  That was a bit of a downer but then when he showed me the option list.  And gave me the history (you should HEAR what happened to the engine over a 10 year period) on the ownership from the time she was bought at the dealership WAYYYY up north..even for up here.   N711022 was sold at the same time with a similar car, with a smaller engine, that was later raced and became very famous up here. I have all the associated names, and, someone did a story on the dealership and them selling them, so there is documentation and research already done in that area.  Sweet.  They BOTH sat on the lot for over four months. Dead of fkin winter up here lol. One was originally bought by a trapper (yup lives in the cold friggin words no power no running water STILL to this day) and there is a good story behind how she came clear across Canada, from British Columbia, to Newfoundland.  Five documented owners and my buddy has had her a while. 

More later.  Deadly thanks fellas.  The engine pad is not original, the interior houndstooth has been replaced, and there is something else that he has not been able to fine.  Not a big thing though.  He has the aluminum head but as she didn't come with it, he did not ever consider installing.  He LOL told me about one that they scrapped and buried YEARS ago... and back then fellas didn't keep the tags.  Thanks for the info!!  I'll send pics of the next 69 he has now in a sec.  Shes the weapon.

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Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 08, 2018, 02:24:28 PM »

So what would be the most rare options on it? Engine block heater?  Additional coolant?  Any way to find out how many units were released with X options? Anything you guys can tell me?  All the pics of other tags need to be retrieved from his computer.  He has providence from the dealership through all the owners until him.   At one point he's owned 8 69's at a time.  Currently has 4.

He has a 69 Z28 as well, beautiful car. But it's not the matching engine.  I'll post her sheet too.  Glad Canada has these records.

Thanks,

Mike .

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Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 08, 2018, 12:30:13 PM »

She didn't have the JL8 brakes.  But did have some interesting options!  Option sheet attached. Thoughts?  All tags match on her except for the transmission.

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Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 07, 2018, 02:38:18 PM »

I was sent that picture.  I will take more tonight with my camera when I am there.  Look for an update later tonight or tomorrow! Thanks for the offers to help.  Your 200K/500K limits for photos are a little tedious but I will manage!  Thanks!

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Decoding/Numbers / Re: Hello. I have a November 1969 Production Date Canadian Car info requested

« on: August 07, 2018, 12:53:52 PM »

She was built in Norwood, modified somewhere by a USA dealer (I think this is what he said when he started with the Yenko stuff), then shipped to Canada for block heater and sale (I think).  I know he has the records of her since being originally sold up here, in Ft. St. John, British Columbia. at the dealership.  So we should have full records of how the car changed hands after that.  It stayed in Canada yes, and is still here.  Hopefully we will be able to tell from both the records he has, and the visual inspections, how she was built, and what factory/dealer installed options are present.  I HIGHLY doubt she was recreated with fake stuff.  And thanks but I don't have a hundred bucks for a formal search.  Hopefully he has those original documents and we will go from there!

And the story of how I became a Ford fan... Moved to Pittsburgh many years ago GO STEELERS and I was just down from Canada, new job, no credit.. And I wanted a Camaro/TransAM.  Went to the dealership and a fully decked out 99 TransAM was about 700 bucks a month.   I could not afford it.  So down the street I went to Ford, and sat in a black Mustang.  450 the guy said. And I've been driving a Mustang GT of some sort, since that day in 1999. But only because I could not afford the camaro.  True story!

Thanks fellas.  Going to see the car TONIGHT woohooo!  If she has the JL8 brakes I'm posting immediately haha.  Would LOVE to find something that surprises you experts from our cold big Canadian (mostly rusted) collections!