Topics

1

Originality / Hardware Identification & Reference 1967 - 1969

« on: March 02, 2017, 10:06:14 PM »

In talking with several CRG members, it has been discussed that it would be very useful and informative to have a general location to have a Identification and Reference library for 1967, 1968, 1969 hardware.  It was also discussed that this thread could be the building and storing location for enough useful information to make a section or library to use on the CRG main page, or at least a section for Hardware reference.

Not everybody had the fore thought to bag and tag their hardware, or thought there was no need, that you would remember where that particular screw or bolt went, Ha!.  It was also the possibility that something or someone would disturb your stash of preserved hardware.

Last but not least, we all know the AIM only gives a general idea of the description and is very uninformative, and also gives a GM part number. 

Basically, the general idea for this reference is to IDENTIFY the EXACT HARDWARE that goes in a PARTICULAR LOCATION, with a PHOTO (using two pieces of the same type hardware, one for side view, one for top view showing maker mark) , DIMENSIONS (using ruler in photo), and DESCRIPTION.

It is only a suggestion, but think it would be a good idea to do this in sections, Front cap hardware first, then maybe subframe,  etc.

Year:
Item:
Photo: ONE photo w/ two views and measurement
AIM page number and UPC number:
GM part number:        Available Yes / NO
AMK part number:      Available  Yes / No
Description:  Recessed Hex Head or Plain Hex Head, etc.
                     Captured floating washer or Solid washer, etc.
                     Pointed end or flat end, etc.
Hardware finish:

This is only several members idea and NEED, so we hope everyone else can make use and enjoy this also.

Thanks,
Bryan

2

Originality / Identifying 3961398 Oil Pan, 1969 302 Production line?

« on: February 13, 2017, 06:42:11 AM »

In doing a little research on 302 oil pans, I came across the part # 3961398 in the Feb. 1969 P&A catalog.  This is on pg. 1-38 in revision dated 2-15-69.  This oil pan was listed for 1967-69 302 engines. 

It is also known that 67-69 302's had their own distinct oil pan, according to Jerry M. and other facts.

I also found where the progression was believed to be as follows, 1968 302 3927134; 1969 302 3961398; 1969 302 3974251; and into replacements 360009, 465220, 360450.

The controversy I saw and had questions about were the listing in the P&A catalog for 3961398, dated February of 1969 and the post that Steve (Z28Z11) made in the thread below with his NOS pan 3974251, dated 2-14-69

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10201.msg76264#msg76264
Identifing 68 Z28 oil pan, post #5.

With all this said, my question is:

Is this 3961398 pan the original Assembly line 1969 302 oil pan?

Was 3961398 short lived and quickly replaced by 3974251?

Thanks,
Bryan

3

1968 - Orphans / 1968 SS 350 8N433492 and 68 coupe 8N444190

« on: November 28, 2016, 05:39:56 AM »

If you have a Y2 Butternut Yellow 68 SS 350 w/ VIN 124378N433492, I have a nice addition to your cars history.

also a

RR Matador red coupe w/ VIN of 124378N444190, I have a nice addition to your cars history.

Both of these cars are from Smith Chevrolet, San Antone, TX.  Just prove it's yours!

Bryan

4

Decoding/Numbers / Questions about Muncie parts and casting number question

« on: June 20, 2016, 04:10:47 AM »

I'm in the process of gathering parts to build a 1968 3925660 M20 for an upcoming project.  I would like to replace the plastic speedo gear and retainer clip (as other members have done, talked about in other threads) with the steel 8 tooth gear as used in the 1967 010 trans.  Would I be correct with the 8T steel gear, part #3708145 to replace the plastic gear?  I also understand that 6261794 and 3924097 are replacement numbers for the same part, are these numbers correct also?  I will be using the black 23T driven gear, 3860346, for 3.73.

Are the main shafts the same between 67, (intended for the steel gear), and the 68-69 main shaft intended for the plastic gear.  Is this a direct conversion?  My main concern is that the steel gear will end up in the right spot to mesh with the driven gear, being that it doesn't have the spring clip to hold the gear in the right spot.

Since the 1968 3925660 case uses the 3884685 side cover, Does the 1968 3925660 also use the 3851326 front bearing retainer, or the 3915020?  Which front bearing retainer is correct for 1968?

Thanks,
Bryan

5

Originality / Subframe bushings, differences between 68 and 69

« on: February 29, 2016, 03:44:42 AM »

While going through my parts bins today, I found a set of NOS subframe bushings, that I forgot I had.  Due to the fact that I needed them for my 69 I took them to the house and checked the numbers against the 68 and 69 AIM.  After checking all the numbers to make sure they were all correct, I discovered a difference between 68 and 69.  I have always heard, especially from the parts vendors, that they were all the same, and never doubted it, or had any reason to look.  They were all the same except two parts.

Here are the differences I found.  The #3 mount location, (under the front seats) are #13, 3901361, which are also the same for 68 and 69, but the mate cushion (donut), #10 3914802 for 68 and #15 3962720 for 69.

So, my questions are:

Has anybody ever compared between these two bushings 3914802 and 3962720, to see if they are actually different?

I know GM was notorious for changing the part number for the slightest change or difference.  Are they different enough to seek the correct part between these two?

Also, I noticed that part# 3893156 core support bushing was replaced with 14008366.  Are these parts that have been changed deemed INCORRECT for restoration purposes?  You might be able to see the numbers that are different.

Thanks,
Bryan

6

General Discussion / Dealership Ads from your local newspaper

« on: February 14, 2016, 04:05:17 AM »

If you have received your NCRS shipping data report, or your dealership that sold your car new is known, then I have a suggestion.  Most Public libraries have the town newspaper on microfilm and with very little research time, you could find many ads by your local Chevrolet dealer, complimenting your cars history and paperwork.  In most cases the quality of the copy machines at the library would be sufficient to make a suitable copy for your records.

Below are two examples of the dealership that sold my 69 Z28, C. D.King.  There were many other ads by this dealer for other cars, Chevelle's, Corvette's, etc.  These two were all I found with Camaro's listed.  Denton-Smith was another dealer locally.

For some, this may be a long shot.  But you might be surprised.

Thanks Darrell, for posting the ads.

Good luck,
Bryan

7

Decoding/Numbers / 1968 N34 wood wheel part number question?

« on: February 01, 2016, 09:44:00 PM »

I can not find the part numbers for the horn contact cam w/tilt and the cap mount with horn contact tab.  I looked all over the 68 AIM and couldn't find much on the N34.  So, let me ask a few questions...

The parts vendors say the parts are the same for 68 and 69, Bull.  The 9751046 horn cap mount for the 69 hub 3937896, has a longer tab on it to make up for the hub being shorter, doesn't it? 

I need the correct pn# for the horn cap mount and the horn contact cam w/tilt for the 68 3930062 hub?  I had thought the 68 cap mount had a shorter tab on it for the deeper hub.  If any other parts are different for the internal parts from 68 to 69, I would need those numbers also.

Thanks,
Bryan

8

1969 - Orphans / 05A Muncie M21 19N642091, P9D17B

« on: January 20, 2016, 07:40:18 PM »

Here's somebody's muncie for an 05A car, hope you see this!

19N642091, P9D17B

http://www.camaros.net/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=91377&cat=8&date=1179953651

9

Decoding/Numbers / 1969 speedo drive gear for 3.73's

« on: January 01, 2016, 09:45:18 AM »

The P&A chart for speedometer drive gears for 3.73 with E70-15 tires is part#3924097 and driven gear is 3860346. 

The black 23 tooth driven gear 3860346 was relatively easy to get NOS.  My trouble is the drive gear.  My GM parts man tried to find the 8 tooth drive gear and came up with 3708145, which turned out to be the earlier steel gear without the spring clip.

Is the correct plastic drive gear for 3.73's part# 3924097, and is it Blue?  Is it 8 or 9 teeth?

If this 3924097 is correct, is there a replacement GM part number for the gear and clip?

I also found an 8 tooth drive gear, orange in color with a GM part#12338033.  I had no way to cross reference this part.

Please help!  Which is the correct mate to 3860346?  What color and number of teeth?

Thanks,
Bryan

10

General Discussion / Category for 1st Gen. Drag Raced Camaros??

« on: December 25, 2015, 09:34:58 PM »

What would be the chances of a new category in "model specific discussions" with the title of DRAG RACED CAMAROS, period 1st gens raced in the NHRA, AHRA, etc.  I refer to the historic Strickler, Jenkins, Wenzel, Beeler, Harrell, Gibb, etc.  How many 67, 68, 69 Z/28's and COPO's, etc. were dealer or individually campaigned for drag racing that are not known by all?  How many?  Who were they?  Are they ALL known?  Dealer Advertisements?, etc.

I just thought it would be very nice to have a category similar to the Trans AM Camaros for drag raced camaros!  If the spot was made for it, could it be an ongoing project?

Thanks,
Bryan

11

Originality / Two tone paint on a 69 Z/28 ?

« on: December 18, 2015, 07:17:09 AM »

Can it be confirmed that Two tone paint was never applied by the factory to a 1969 Z28?  I had to agree with several friends during a discussion about this application.  If one of the six two tone paint schemes, 55-50, 51-53, etc. was applied to a Z/28, it would not effect the rally stripes of a Z/28, and would appear as a vinyl top.  Therefore, is there a living example in existence?  If not, Why not?

Thanks,
Bryan

12

Decoding/Numbers / Possible Fisher Body sequence numbers found?

« on: October 12, 2015, 04:17:34 AM »

These past few days, I have been dis-assembling my 69Z and removed my deluxe door panels.  On the back of the RH door panel was the number 46 written in black grease pencil and the numbers were about 2 1/2" tall.  The numbers were located toward the bottom of the panel, below the holes for the chrome strip for the carpet. 

Would this possibly indicate that my car was number 46 in the Fisher Body Trim Shop? 

If these are Fisher numbers issued to the car, where else have numbers been found within the interior to indicate sequence numbers?

Is this a common place to find Fisher numbers from interior shop?

Has anyone else found similar numbers on door panels?

Thanks,
Bryan

13

Restoration / 1969 Ignition, Door and Trunk locks (Keeping Original Code Numbers)

« on: October 02, 2015, 08:19:28 PM »

For restoration purposes, Is there any way to replace or rebuild the lock cylinders and keep your original key codes?  Basically, can the cylinders be made or rebuilt to the key and the original numbers?

Also, somewhere I read that the newer or repop GM code E and H key blanks had changed from the original type.  What are the differences in the way the blanks are made now than the original?  Is there a way to identify an NOS or original GM code E and H blank?

Thanks,
Bryan

14

Originality / 69Z Spiral Shocks date and hardware report

« on: October 01, 2015, 04:01:04 AM »

I just removed the spiral shocks that came on my 05A 69 Z today.  They have NEVER been off the car until today!

The rear shocks 3192851 were dated 120 69 and had the staked flat washer bushing stud still in place.  All four of the screws that hold the shock mounting plate to the body were SEMS over a large T, ( actually the horizontal bar of the T went from one side of the head to the other.)  The screw head was recessed.

The front shocks 3192477 were dated 107 69.  All four mounting screws, on the lower A arm were RBW with a horizontal dash under the R and B, and a vertical dash between the R and B.  The W is at bottom center.  Between the horizontal dashes and dead center of the head is a dimple or more like a shallow center drill hole.  The head was also recessed and has a solid flange washer.

I don't know how, but these shocks still have some resistance, and are in decent shape.  I definitely will be calling the NCRS rebuilder, Mr. Dan Patch if he is still in business.

Sorry, no photos.  My printer/scanner/card reader has passed away.

Bryan

15

General Discussion / Found and talked to the original owner of my 69Z today, need opinions!!

« on: September 14, 2015, 06:23:43 AM »

Friends, I just got lucky this weekend.  I was at a local Mustang club show in my town.  I was standing there smokin' over a very nice survivor 70 Boss 302, bought new locally, when a man got up from his near by swap meet booth and walks over to me.  He said, aren't you kind of out of place wearing that garnet red embroidered 69 Z t shirt to a mustang show.  I said, yes sir, I feel like the punch in the bowl that the turd was in.  The man went on to tell me that he owned a HO Z for thirty seven years and recently sold it.  He then asked me if I had this Garnet Red Z now.  I said yes, I've had it for thirty six years and several years ago have started to dis-assemble, clean it up and restore it.  The man then said, I've got a close friend that bought a garnet red Z new and traded it in 1972 and has often wondered where it went.  I didn't think much about it, and was about to discard the possibility of it being the same car, and then, the man said, well this one had red deluxe comfort weave interior with a rubber front bumper.  About then my jaw was beginning to drop and he said... and it was bought at such and such dealer in such and such town in July of 1969.  Well, my knees were beginning to buckle, then I said that sounded like the same car but there was no sure ties.  Then man said, well did the steering wheel have NB + TW inscribed in it!  I said, THAT'S IT!!  So this man called his friend when he got home yesterday, and informed him of the news.  I talked to the original owner of my Z for an hour and a half this afternoon.

He told me he did not have any documents that he knew of, but would look for them and the one original photo that he knew of.

He told me that within 3 months he had a mechanic remove the exhaust manifolds and smog pump to install headers and gave the mechanic the parts to install the headers.  Then he said while I was at it I had him cut those damn little mufflers off too.  Then, within a few more months he had the 3.73's out and put in 4.10's.  (So that's where that stuff went).

(This is leading to my question and request of advice).  I told my new friend that I had ran the numbers with NCRS and received the dealer information, and that was all I had, and was one of the proving factors to being the same car.  He asked me if there was anything he could request being that he was the original owner.  I said maybe the MSO from DMV.

I have been told that the privacy act is the reason the DMV has shut researchers and owners down.  Would the DMV send the MSO and titles to the original owner upon his request??  Is there any other info the DMV has?

Thanks,
Bryan