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Topics - 68SixBangerRS

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1
Saw this on Bring-a-trailer.  It's a '68 base coupe with a 250 six and a 3-speed manual and not much else.  It comes with its original Protect-o-plate and is correct except for a color change from white to black, and a gawd-awful repop interior (poorly fitting seat covers, puffy door panels, and a saggy headliner...I hate repop junk).  This is the first six-banger 1st Gen I've seen with its VIN stamped on the engine pad.  It's nice to see that its engine is correct and complete...right down to its air pump.  I hope it stays with its original drivetrain (and all of the commenters on BAT are saying the same thing).  Currently bid to $20k and auction closes in 7 days.  Even six-banger 1st Gens are going up in value.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-chevrolet-camaro-106/

2
6-cylinder Camaros / Surviving Six Cylinder 1969 Camaros
« on: November 04, 2021, 04:28:41 PM »
Here they are...the "possibly" surviving 1969 Camaros with six-bangers.  All of them were found on the 'Net within the last 7-10 years, and I tried to buy several of them with no luck (I was usually a "day late and a dollar short").  I have very serious doubts that more than 3-4 have survived...the temptation to build one's "dream" '69 Camaro is usually too overwhelming, and the six-bangers are so under-powered compared to what can be swapped in.  And absolutely NO ONE (except me) would even think about restoring one to its correct configuration and appearance.

The six-banger 1st Gen Camaros were clearly aimed at women ("Secretary Specials" as I call them).  They were stylish, cheap, reliable, fun to drive, reasonably roomy, and provided great gas mileage.  According to GM's manufacturing numbers, 26.7% of '69 Camaros were built with sixes (34,541 coupes and 1,707 convertibles compared to 206,837 V8s).  A base V8 could be ordered for a lousy $105, and a Powerglide for another $165, so the sixes were relatively scarce at most dealerships.  The evening that Charlotte and her Mom bought her Camaro, Sept. 19, 1969, there were 12-15 new Camaros at Misle Chevrolet in Lincoln, Nebraska...3 of them were sixes (2 automatics and one manual). 

I'll post the cars a couple here and there in the next few days.  As I said, there aren't many left.  If anyone on here knows the whereabouts of any of these cars, please share that with the rest of us.  And please let us know if they stayed with their original drivetrains.

 

3
I haven't been on here for quite awhile.  Some of you may remember my previous 6-cylinder Camaros...a very rusty '68 RS coupe with a 230 six and a 3-on-the-tree (sold to a guy who needed a VIN and title), another very rusty barn find '69 coupe with a 250 six and a 3-on-the-tree (sold to a guy planning to build a phony SS with an LS...yawn!), a restored '69 coupe with a 250 six and an ultra-rare air-cooled Torque Drive trans (sold to a guy who knew it was one of possibly only 2 left in existence), and my latest find, a 'Frost Green '69 coupe with 44k original miles and its matching number drivetrain...250 six with a 3-speed manual and 3.08 open rear.  In addition, I just sold possibly the only '70 Camaro left in existence with a 250 six and a 3-speed manual...an incredibly original Citrus Green Los Angeles car... I posted a lot of info and photos of it over on Nasty Z28 (the best 2nd Gen Camaro website in my opinion).  I am here to tell anyone that I KNOW 6-cylinder Camaros!!!

I have known about this particular 6-cylinder '69 Camaro for quite awhile...it was purchased new by my nephew Earl's mother-in-law, Charlotte.  My nephew (and everyone else in my family...and all my friends) knows that I absolutely love classic cars...Camaros, Novas, Firebirds, Squarebodies, even a Datsun 240Z and an early Toyota MR2.  I had seen photos of the car hanging on the wall of Earl's basement man cave and asked if it was for sale and his answer was that Charlotte had promised it to her oldest child...her daughter Teresa.  About 2 months ago Earl called to tell me that Charlotte was interested in selling her Camaro to me (apparently she and Teresa's partner Beth had had a falling out and the car was now up for grabs).  I actually asked my wife if I could buy yet another classic car and she was not open to that option, so I made the very difficult decision to sell my '70 after driving to the small town in Arkansas where Charlotte lived so I could assess the condition of the car (gorgeous survivor).  I put a couple grand down on it and then sold the '70.  I rented a U-Haul pickup and double axle trailer on Labor Day weekend and drove 1,550 miles round-trip from Columbus to get it.

Charlotte gave me several photos of the car from the early '70s to the early '80s and told me the story of it.  She was 19 years-old in Sept. 1969 and had recently started classes at the Univ. of Nebraska in Lincoln, as well as working as a secretary at a country club in Lincoln.  She was driving an uninspiring white '64 Rambler 4-door with a 6-cylinder and a 3-on-the-tree.  She was making enough money at her part-time job to make the payments on a new car.  Her grandfather said she should buy a Chevy with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual, and her mother said she would co-sign the loan and provide $250 for the down payment (the dealer gave $350 for the Rambler).  Charlotte and her mom went a few blocks from their house to Misle Chevrolet, one of 2 large Chevy dealers in Lincoln (at that time a medium-sized city with a population of approximately 100k).  Misle was very close to the U of N and usually had a good selection of cars that appealed to young people...Camaros, Novas, and Chevelles.  The evening that Charlotte bought this car was Sept. 19, 1969 (a Friday).  She had decided to buy a Camaro instead of a Nova because she thought it was sportier and the cost wasn't much more.  Misle had 12-15 Camaros that evening and 3 of them had sixes...two automatics and one manual.  The dealer wasn't willing to negotiate on the car (even though they had been sitting on it for 4 months), so she agreed to pay full price (the dealer's only concession to her was to throw in a set of magnesium hubcaps in exchange for the dog-dish caps...Charlotte saw the mag hubcaps on a showroom display board and immediately wanted them).  She and her mom drove home with the green Camaro after spending about 3 hours at Misle.

Her Camaro was rather plain, but still a very nice car for a teenager.  It had the larger 250 six ($25.00), Z21 Style Trim Group ($45.00), tinted glass on all windows ($31.00), AM radio ($58.00), and E78-14 whitewall tires ($24.00)...the aforementioned mag-style hubcaps were a $70.00 freebie.  Charlotte recalled that the out-the-door price was exactly $2,900 and a little change.  Her payments were through the 1st National Bank of Lincoln...$110.00 per month for 24 months.  She loved everything about the car except the manual steering and the awkward column-shifter (she said it was very stiff-shifting and sometimes hard to get into 1st).  After owning it for 6 months, she moved from Lincoln to Los Angeles to be near her brother Bob, a Marine stationed at El Toro Marine Corps Air Station (on the far south side of the LA metro area).  She loved LA, but moved back home after one year because she missed her former boyfriend Lyle.  She and Lyle married in 1971 and had 3 daughters...the Camaro became a grocery-getter.  Charlotte completed a degree in accounting at the U of Nebraska and she was hired by the US Treasury Dept to become an auditor.  She began several moves to bigger cities...Omaha, then Chicago, then Washington DC and the Camaro would sit for long periods at her brother Bob's farm near Milford, NE.  In 1983 Charlotte decided to buy a new Camaro with A/C, an automatic trans, and power accessories.  The dealer offered her $750 trade-in for the '69 and she decided to keep it (it had only 43k miles at that time and the salesmen were salivating over it).  Thus began 35 years of storage in a machine shed at Bob's farm.  Bob passed away in 2018 and the Camaro was moved to Charlotte and Lyle's new home in rural Arkansas.  In early 2021 the car was towed to a mechanic's shop in Arkansas to get it drivable again (all it needed was to have the gas tank drained and a new battery...the tires were replaced in 2018).

The car is remarkably original, but Lyle said that it was repainted in 1975 after it was keyed.  It also had the lower right quarter panel and left front fender replaced due to minor accidents in parking lots.  Lyle located a steering column in a junkyard Nova with a green interior and a floor shifter and bought the parts to convert the Camaro to a floor shift.  The work was done very well and looks factory correct...the floor shifter lends the car a very sporty vibe.  Unfortunately, the 3-on-the-tree column and transmission rods were not saved (if anyone knows where I can get them, please let me know...I want to convert it back).  Lyle also swapped out the original 14x6 plain steel wheels and mag hubcaps for 14x6 Rally wheels from a junkyard Chevelle after one of the mag hubcaps was either stolen or came off while driving.  Other than those items, it's all original.  The AM radio works, it rides almost like a new car, steers beautifully with its original tie rod ends, ball joints, pitman arm, and has nearly all of its original parts...RC-15 radiator cap still holds pressure, its Delco "208" coil, spark plug wires, battery cables, untouched wiring, fuel pump, clutch and pressure plate, unturned brake drums, master brake cylinder, radiator with tag, one T-3 headlight, seats, door panels, headliner, seatbelts, carpet, dash panel, rear package shelf (which appears to be painted Frost Green), all Soft Ray glass (the windshield is scratch and chip free and still has its original blue-green tint...no fading).  Everything on it works...horn, wipers and washers, backup lights, all electricals.  The air cleaner has some surface rust, but still has most of its original paint, as well as a nearly perfect "250 Turbo-thrift" sticker and its side sticker ("Keep your GM car all GM").  The original timing sticker is still on the top of the radiator support (and is still highly legible).  In the trunk when I bought it was its original jack, the original rear shocks, the original radiator hoses and tower clamps, the original air pump (I installed it just to take photos...the only complete '69 6-cylinder air pump I have seen in the last 30 or so years), and the original spare wheel which is painted Frost Green (dated May 13th, 1969...the car was built 05E at Norwood...the spare is a BFG Silvertown F78-14 bias-ply dated 6-72...a replacement for a flat tire).  There are PTB stamps on both sides of the firewall...P and B are green, T is orange.

The car came with its Protect-o-plate, owner's manual (3rd version dated April '69), plastic documents envelope, a couple of '69 sales brochures, a '69 options booklet, '69 Nebraska tax receipt, '70 California registration, '71 Nebraska registration, several early receipts, a 1982 Nebraska state vehicle inspection sticker on the left side of the windshield, a 1971 Omaha city resident sticker on the right side of the windshield, a 1970 Nebraska National Football champions sticker inside the glovebox, a Misle Chevrolet dealer key ring, the original GM keys, a Misle Chevrolet metal dealer trunk emblem, an oil change sticker on the driver's door from 6-81 that shows 39k miles, a Phillips 66 oil change sticker on the upper left inside windshield that is dated 6-83 and shows 43,068 miles, and a couple of interesting matchbooks.  The Ohio title says "43,689 actual miles".  This is the most original 1st Gen Camaro I have ever owned.

 


4
General Discussion / '69 Lemans Blue 307 4-spd Coupe on CL-Houston
« on: April 30, 2020, 02:05:59 AM »
This one looks like a pretty good deal...original 307 with (maybe) it's original 4-speed (more likely a 3-speed that was swapped for a 4-speed).  It looks like it's had an upgrade to front disks, and a couple of "2nd Day" engine upgrades.  It could be left as-is, or returned to 100% original (what I would do).  I like the standard grill cars with bow tie emblems.  The interior looks to be largely un-screwed with...another plus. 

Here's the ad:
"1969 Chevy Camaro X11 original 307 with Muncie 4 speed. Metal work complete and ready for paint or drive it as it is. Refresh Black Interior. Nice rims and tires and disk brakes all around."

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/spring-1969-camaro/7104479614.html

5
General Discussion / '69 Lemans Blue 327 Coupe in Fresno
« on: April 29, 2020, 07:24:24 AM »
I also saw this nice coupe in California at the same time I spotted the Frost Green 307 coupe, but I was too tired to post it then. Like the green car, this one also appears to be a nice Calif survivor.  Its interior looks completely original, right down to the carpet.  It's also an A/C car, but the center dash vent is MIA, so that area is murky.  The seller says the original 327 was replaced by another one, so if you're a numbers-matching purist that might be a buzz killer.  The trunk spoiler is the narrow '68 version which leads me to believe it's original to this car (who else would put that spoiler on a '69?).  I like the column shifter and smooth trans tunnel, but it's unknown if this is a PG or a TH-350.  The engine could be swapped for a 383, or just left alone, and you might even want to put a correct air cleaner back on it.  The deluxe seatbelts are a nice plus on a base coupe.  The color is fantastic, and the white hockey stripe looks just right (but is probably incorrect for a car with a black interior and a black vinyl top).  I noticed that the tach's redline is set for 4,500 rpm, which is a good indicator that his car was not severely beaten.  And the $29,500 price could probably be brought down some due to the current China Bat Virus garbage.  I would put the correct silver grille in it and NOT make it into another SS!

https://fresno.craigslist.org/cto/d/fresno-1969-camaro-coupe/7110286691.html

6
General Discussion / '69 Frost Green Coupe with a 307 on CL-SF
« on: April 28, 2020, 04:29:28 AM »
I am constantly searching around CL and usually find some decent stuff on the Left Coast.  I found this exceptionally nice and original-looking '69 Frost Green coupe with a standard light green interior.  Mileage is claimed to be 38k, but who knows.  It appears to be rust-free, and is probably an original Calif car (note: the black plate on the back is not original to the car...if it were it would start with a W, X, Y, or Z).  There were no pics of the engine compartment or trunk, but the seller would probably be glad to send you some.  I don't know what the options are, but it would be a great little driver as-is, and would probably attract a good amount of attention at shows because it hasn't been made into yet another phony Z28 or SS.  I think I would get rid of the trunk spoiler and trim rings and take it back to its most-basic form.

Here is the ad:
"38k original miles. Extremely clean. Serious buyers only. Photos don't do this car justice. 307/2 speed power glide. Manual brakes. Power steering. Everything new or in great original shape. Get in the car and drive. Don't hesitate to email with any questions. I will respond promptly. Thanks for looking. Car located in Gustine, CA"

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/1969-camaro/7109175290.html

7
Restoration / What is the Correct Interior Red?
« on: April 18, 2020, 12:30:14 AM »
I'm trying to round up as many original red interior pieces as I can for my '69 with a standard red interior.  I bought what was described as a "correct" red standard steering wheel made by OER, and like every repop red interior I've seen it was not the correct shade of red.  As far as I can determine, 1st Gens with red interiors are few and far between, which makes documenting what the correct shade of red actually looks like pretty difficult.  As you might be able to tell from my photos, the repop wheel is more of a maroon than a bright red.  I posted a couple of pics of an unfaded red '67 Impala wheel, which I believe is also the correct red for a '69.  I also posted a portion of the OER wheel's rim compared to the bright red from a set of Delco plug wires, and the end of a Coke 12-pack (which I believe are very close to the correct shade of red...more of a tomato soup color). 

If anyone has purchased red standard repop door panels, I would like to know what brand and if they look correct, and if anyone has an original red interior, I would appreciate some photos taken in bright light with a white paper towel behind to bring out the red.  For anyone considering an OER "correct" red standard steering wheel, I would say "fuhgettuhboutit"!

8
I haven't been on here for about 4 years...sold my '68 RS Coupe with a 230 6-cylinder and a 3-on-the-tree (rare but an absolute rust bucket), and '69 red base coupe with a 250 6-cylinder and a 3-on-the-tree (an Ohio barn find that was full of snake skins and rust).  As you can probably tell, I like the "weird s***".  My daily driver is a '78 Nova 4-door with a 250 6-cylinder and a 3-on-the-tree, and my current beater Camaro is a Citrus Green '70 base coupe with a 250 6-cylinder and a 3-on-the-floor.  I also own a '74 Nova police car demonstrator that no one really cares about.  My cars are interesting and "off-the-beaten-path"...they attract attention because most 6-cylinder Camaros long ago had their original drivetrains swapped out for V8s, so there are almost none left and guys come over to check out what their Camaros used to have.

But this forum isn't about 2nd Gens or Novas, and I'm back here because I have another weird Camaro you might find interesting.  It's a red '69 base coupe with its original numbers-matching 250 6-cylinder and air-cooled Torque Drive transmission.  I have only been able to locate one other Camaro with this transmission, a '68 coupe that a guy in the KC metro area owns (I tried to share info with him and sent him a couple of photos but oddly never heard a word back).  Anyway, I digress...I found it at a classic car dealership in Grand Rapids, MI, and they had no idea how rare it was.  They thought it had a regular Powerglide, and when I drove up from Columbus to see it, the salesman who conducted the test drive spent the test in 2nd gear, so it had horrible, non-existent acceleration (the dealer was so anxious to get rid of it that they toyed with the idea of swapping in a small block with a TH-350).  The dealer had posted quite a few photos of the car online, and one of them showed its automatic trans shift indicator which said "TORQUE DRIVE" and showed its gears as "P-R-N-High-1st", which is how I figured out what it was.  I found info on this site that showed that approx. 3,000 '68 Camaros and 2,200 '69s had Torque Drives. I traded a beautiful survivor '77 Firebird Esprit with 53k miles and a big block '79 Suburban survivor for it plus a few grand in cash for the Camaro.

For those of you who aren't familiar with a Torque Drive tranny, it was option code "MB1" and was available for $68...the cheapest automatic available in a 6-cylinder equipped '68 or '69 Camaro (it was also available in 6-cylinder '68-'70 Novas).  Except the Torque Drive wasn't really an automatic...the driver had to do all of the shifting him or herself.  TDs were primarily marketed for women and high school or college kids.  The correct way to drive one was to start out in 1st gear and then shift into 2nd (high) between 20-30 mph, then repeat the process every time the car left a traffic light.  Since most people are lazy, many Torque Drives were left in 2nd and the drivers put up with the abysmally slow acceleration.  Unfortunately, driving an air-cooled transmission in hot weather in 2nd gear caused the transmissions to overheat and frequently fail.  GM replaced nearly all of them with standard liquid-cooled Powerglides under warranty, so almost none survived.

Once I got it home, I started to dig into research on what a Torque Drive was and how it was different from a regular PG equipped car.  The '69 assembly manual wasn't much help as it basically said it was supposed to have a liquid-cooled PG with all of the shifting parts removed (no vacuum modulator, governor, or kickdown mechanism, and a valve body with far less machining)...obviously the assembly manual is incorrect.  It also had a case with 4 large triangular-shaped holes and a very odd looking stamped lower cover with what appears to be an air scoop on one side to draw in cooling air.  It has a Harrison manual transmission radiator for a 6-cylinder that was made in May of '68, and the trans pan is coded for a Torque Drive (the engine is also matching numbers...I have the Protect-o-plate and all numbers match...there is no VIN stamped into the trans case).  The case appears to have been made in June of '68 (the car was built in the 5th week of Aug "08E"...very early production). The engine runs well, and the car has a claimed 56k original miles, but the trans slipped badly once it was warmed up.  I took it to a local shop that specializes in classic car trannys...they did a band adjustment and said the pan was full of metal shavings which indicated its torque converter was probably shot.

I took it back to that same shop a few days ago for a rebuild and they disassembled and cleaned all the parts.  I stopped in to take some close-ups of its parts.  Compared to a liquid-cooled PG, the main pump has less machining, the shifter mechanism has no provision for a kickdown, the hole where a vacuum modulator would go is sealed shut, the holes where a normal PG's cooling tubes go to and from the radiator are blocked off with bolts, and the torque converter has unusual cooling fins welded to the back.  I took a few photos to post on here so you will have some documentation since there doesn't appear to be any other place on the Internet which shows any of this.

9
6-cylinder Camaros / 67 Coupe with a Six and 3-on-the-tree on Ebay
« on: November 23, 2016, 04:07:51 PM »
Hey Guys...another six banger with 3-on-the-tree on Ebay.  The lack of 250 emblems on the fenders points to this being a 230.  How about the Boss 302-esque side stripe? It appears to have only had one option, an AM radio.  The painted wheels indicate dog-dish hubcaps.  Here is the ad's write-up...neat story:

"In July of 1969, this 1967 Camaro went to its second owner. The second owner drove it until about 36 years ago, when it was parked in a field behind her house, as she was just having her first child and didn't think it was a suitable "family car." She had plans to drive it occasionally, but it never moved an inch. A few months ago, I was contacted by a friend of the owner's son. They were clearing the field out and were finally ready to let the car go to a new home. It's not often you get to see a car that's been untouched for so long. Unfortunately, leaving it outside for so long in the New England weathers took its toll. The front floor pans are gone. The trunk floor is badly rusted, and the leaf spring mounts are rotted out. The rear quarters and fender doglegs are in bad shape. The car needs a lot of work. The good - it's complete. The car was parked running and driving. It's a three speed column shift straight six - MATCHING NUMBERS. Everything is original. There are plenty of original parts still very much reusable. The front cross member is solid, all of the glass is intact (the front windshield has a crack). The roof, hood, and trunk are solid. Three of the four tires are still holding air!"


 I just love strippers...all kinds  8).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Chevrolet-Camaro-/201726701393?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2ef7d92f51:g:DsgAAOSwpLNX~DIE&item=201726701393

10
6-cylinder Camaros / 69 Firebird OHC6 donates its 3-speed tranny
« on: November 06, 2016, 04:41:03 AM »
Hey All...I have been on the lookout for a good 3-speed Saginaw tranny and a 3-on-the-tree steering column for my '69 Camaro coupe (Ol' Snake Eyes).  I found what I was looking for on CL-Chicago...the original 3-speed and steering column from a '69 Firebird convertible from Arizona for $300 (I love cheap 6-cylinder parts that no one else wants).  A couple of days ago I drove from Columbus to an hour NW of the Chicago metro area to pick up the parts and see what else the guy had to sell.  He is in the process of swapping the rare OHC6 (base engine with a 1-barrel) with the oddball 3-on-the-tree for a ZZ4 SBC crate motor with a 700R4 (the same as nearly every other 1st Gen Camaro and F-bird).  I was really glad he was making that swap as it provided the trans and steering column I needed to restore my car.  Yesterday I invited my good buddy Tim over to help me yank out the frozen original 250 from my '69, and install the nice running '70 Nova 250 (that I obtained from a CL-Detroit ad for $350) and the 3-speed.  We power-washed the nasty engine compartment and the replacement engine and trans while we were at it.  It took less that 2 hours to install the new engine.  I hope to have Snake Eyes running very soon.

11
6-cylinder Camaros / 69 Coupe with a Six and 3-on-the-tree on Ebay
« on: October 31, 2016, 02:01:55 PM »
Hey All...found this on Ebay...a '69 Coupe with a 230 and 3-on-the-tree shifter with a starting bid of $13.5k (reserve not met).  Its VIN is 123379N702385, and it has a claimed 81k original miles (probably a little-old-lady car).  The only options I can see are Z23 and an AM radio.  I really do not care for the cowl hood, rear spoiler, and Z28 stripes...why mess up this car's clean lines and simplicity?  I do like the original wheels and dog-dish caps.  Not many of these left!

12
Decoding/Numbers / DZ Block from Aug 38th
« on: October 19, 2016, 04:59:07 PM »
Here's a DZ block that was either misstamped or actually built on Aug 38th, 1968  ::).  What do you guys think?  If I can get the VIN I'll add it to the "Orphans" section.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/pts/5822626608.html

13
Decoding/Numbers / Misprint on a 69 Cowl Tag
« on: October 13, 2016, 01:26:28 PM »
Anyone ever seen this type of misprint before.."5OR" vice "NOR"?  This car is VIN N687788, built 09C...mine is VIN N687407 built 09C...probably built on the same day.  It is a 307, TH350 with factory A/C, console, PS, and PB.  It includes the original FC code wheels with dog-dish hubcaps, and also comes with its POP and inspection form.  It also has one of its original metal dealer license plate frames from Carl Chevy in San Jose...neat.  It's on CL-Redding for $30k.

http://redding.craigslist.org/cto/5819447856.html

14
Here's a nice original California '67 convertible on CL-San Diego for $19k.  It is an original 250 six with a 3-speed manual on the floor, blue standard interior, and a white electric top.  A nice project for someone...keep it a six!

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/5763457342.html

15
6-cylinder Camaros / Questions about '69 Six Air Cleaners
« on: October 07, 2016, 11:37:35 PM »
These questions are probably for Kurt S., but anyone else who knows please feel free to respond.  I compared the original 250 air cleaner from my 09C '69 coupe to the one on the untouched '69 230 convertible currently for sale on Ebay.  That car was built in April and has a smog pump, which Kurt says all six cylinder '69 Camaros had.  My car still has its original engine and has no smog pump bracket or tubes, and the air cleaner has a Therm-Vac solenoid and heat tube.  I looked on the 'Net and found a '70 Nova six cylinder with that same air cleaner and no smog pump.   The 1st question is were late model year '69 Camaros being built with 1970 model engines?  My 2nd question is whether the smog pump was eliminated after 1970 on six cylinder Chevys, and a heat stove installed with the corresponding Therm-Vac switch?  The 1st photo shows the conv. engine, the 2nd is my car's air cleaner, and the 3rd is the '70 Nova's air cleaner.

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