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Topics - DAVEN1256

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Restoration / Roof rail blow out clip angle ???
« on: November 26, 2018, 10:56:48 PM »
After re-riveting my roof rail blow out clips back on to the roof rail channels, I noticed that the angle of the blow out clips in relation to the channel is different on the long and short channels.

On the long channels, the clips are bent back and are touching the side of the channel. On the short channels, the clips are not bent back nearly as far and there is an 1/8 gap between the clips and the sides of the channels....These are the original clips going back on the original channels. I don't think anything got bent along the way.

The only reason this concerns me is I wouldn't want the window rubbing against the clips on the short channels because the clips are sticking out to far. My side glass isn't installed so I can't check.

It's no big deal for me to remove the clips on the short channels, bend the clips back, and then re-rivet them. Before I do that, I want to find out if it's possible the clips are correct just as they are and there won't be any window rubbing. I don't want to fix something that isn't broken.


Restoration / Roof rail weatherstrip channel installation ???
« on: November 26, 2018, 04:32:42 PM »
I am wondering about how to properly position the three sided stainless steel roof rail channels that hold the top of the window weatherstripping seal?

I have my original channels screwing back into their original holes in the body but the oversize screw holes in the channels allow for a lot of adjustment.

When you are doing the final adjustment of your side windows, is tweaking the position of the roof rail channels part of the adjustment process or do you fix them in place and adjust the windows to wherever the channels are. (I have never adjusted window before!)

Using the impressions left in the channels by the oversize screw heads as a guide, I can get the channels pretty much right back where there were originally if that's the way to go.

I've also been told to put the headliner windlace in place and then push the channels against it and use that as a starting position and then tweak it if needed.

Any opinions would be appreciated.


Before I start this, let me say I have ZERO experience with headliners other than removing my original. I've never put one in, never seen anyone put one in, or even seen a reproduction in person before!

I picked up a Distinctive Industries brand headliner from Ecklers warehouse in Titusville, FL. The kit included the headliner, sail panels already covered, and sunvisor material. I opened the box while I was there for a quick look to compare the appearance to a piece of my original GM. It was a good match appearance wise. In the photo below, the three small pieces are sitting on the Distinctive sunvisor material.

After getting it home and really looking it, here's what I found..... and need some questions answered.

1) Compared to headliner sample pieces I got from TMI, PUI, and Legendary, the Distinctive was the closest in appearance to a piece of my original GM headliner that was tucked under and had never seen the light of day......The pattern of the TMI and PUI are correct but both have a little duller sheen than the GM piece.  The Distinctive's sheen was spot on the GM. The Legendary sample was nothing like the GM......So appearance wise, the Distinctive is great!

2) Out of the box, the Distinctive has a very strong vinyl odor! Exactly like if you took a brand new vinyl shower curtain out of it's packaging and how strong it smells....I couldn't take smelling that every time I got in my car....Is this normal? Do all brands smell that way out of the box and would it fade over time?

3) My biggest concern is how you would mount these sail panels. The original GM's had four brackets fastened to the back of the sail panel. A clip went in the bracket and then the clip was pushed into holes in the sail panel structure of the body. The distinctive sail panel has no brackets for the clips to fasten to. There are patches of reinforced cardboard on the back with small holes in it. My guess is maybe you are supposed to put your clips in these holes. The problem with that is that first off, you need four clips per side and there are only three holes, the holes are too small to put an original clip in, and the holes are close but not in the same position as the clips on the originals. Two of the at least an inch off! I have no idea how I would mount these.

So I'm needing opinions on this Distinctive headliner and sail panels. Is what I'm seeing here (and smelling) here the norm with all manufacturers or should I return these and look for something better?


ps....For what it's worth, I measured the thickness of all the samples I have here. I'm not sure if the differences are significant.

                         TMI  .0210 inches
Distinctive Industries  .0220 inches
         My original GM  .0235 inches
                         PUI  .0240 inches


Restoration / Window felts - '68 w/ deluxe interior + reveal moldings
« on: September 28, 2018, 01:36:03 AM »
I'm am looking for a full set of inner and outer window felts for a '68 coupe with the deluxe interior and the reveal moldings on top of the doors and quarter window area.

Some time ago, I had tried two brands and looked at a third but they all had problems Hopefully, things might have changed between then and now.

1st set: This was several years ago. I ordered from Steele Rubber and got a box of Repops brand inside of a Steele shipping box. The problem with these was  the triangular shaped tabs on the outer felts that fit into slots on the reveal moldings and then get bent over. They were not stamped completely through and could not be pried up. They were useless as they came out of the box!

2nd set: Don't remember the brand but I looked at them in person at Eckler's facility in Titusville, FL. The same tabs on the outer felts that I mentioned above did not match up with the slots on my reveal moldings. Again useless!

3rd set: These are PUI brand and pictured below. PUI part number F236-1...... I had two concerns with the outer felts. One was the thickness of the "whiskers." They are an 1/8th thick. I have seen others in person and in pictures on this site where the "whiskers" look to be a 1/4 to 3/8 thick. This includes pictures of original GM pieces. My side glass is not in but I wonder if at 1/8 thick they will be thick enough to pressup against the glass......The other is that the top edge of the metal strip that the "whiskers" are attached to is chrome and not black like the originals.

There are three major problems with the PUI inner felts.....The flat stainless steel bead on the top of the felt that sits on top of the door panel does not extend over the door panel as far as the orignal GM piece. The problem with this is that the outer edge of the orignal GM pieces have left a permanent indentation in the door panel vinyl that the PUI piece doesn't cover......The PUI piece that fits on the quarter panel reveal molding in bent incorrectly. The original GM piece was formed with a curve in it. The PUI piece was made straight and then bent afterwards. The piece is distorted at the bend and will not mount properly to  the side panel. This PUI piece is also 5/8" longert than the original GM piece.

So what I am looking for (if they exist) is ...

Outer felts that have triangular tabs that can actually be pried up and are spaced properly so that they will fit the slots on the reveal molding......and with "whiskers" that are as thick as original GM pieces.

Inner felts that have the correct width flat stainless steel bead on the top......and the quarter window pieces have the correct undistorted bend and will fit side panel properly.

I'd be willing to buy two different sets if one had the correct inners and the other had the correct outers.


Restoration / Headliner recomendation and sun visor question
« on: June 30, 2018, 01:42:53 AM »
I need to purchase a new black headliner for my '68.......I am looking for a manufacturer recommendation and have a sun visor question.

Any recommendations as to what manufacturer is making the most faithful reproduction of the original?........About four years ago, I had sample pieces sent to me by Legendary and TMI. The pattern in the piece from Legendary was not even close. The pattern on the TMI piece was close to the original but the finish was very dull like a matte black. The part of my original headliner that was tucked under and never saw the light of day has a nice sheen to it. Of course, a lot could have changed in four years (for better or worse.) I know PUI also makes them but I don't have a sample from them.

I know all of the major parts suppliers have headliners. Most don't mention the manufacturer and some say "made in USA." Prices range from around $75 to $100 and most include covered sail panel boards and sun visor material.......Then only exception was TMI which Summit carries and that was $129. That included the covered sail panels but made no mention of sun visor material.

When sun visors get recovered, do they re-use the old edge trim that is stitched around the edge.....or do upholstery shops have that stuff on hand?  I don't see where anyone sells it. The material on my original visors is in great shape but the stitching on the edge trim is disintegrating and it is coming loose.


Originality / Correct starter brace for '68 small block ???
« on: May 17, 2018, 12:35:52 AM »
Can someone tell me which of the starter braces pictured below is correct for a '68 small block. This is the brace that connects the threaded stud on the front of starter to the side of the engine block.

The illustration in the AIM show what looks like a flat bar with 90 degree twist in it. Like in the second picture.

When you look in the parts catalogs they show either of what you see in pictures 3 and 4. A piece of bent angle iron with either a round hole at each end or one with round hole at one end and an open ended slot at the other end.


Restoration / Rust on clutch pressure plate
« on: May 08, 2018, 02:22:46 AM »
When I took my car apart ten years ago, I put the clutch in a box and stored it away. It is a Hays clutch that I bought in the mid 80's. I live in Florida and my storage area doesn't not have AC.

I took it out recently to look at it and found that the Florida humidity had worked it's magic and covered the friction surface of the pressure plate with rust spots.

I went over it with Scotchbrite and that did very little. When you run you hand over the surface, you can feel that the rust spots are raised a little above the surface of the clean metal.

Is there a fix for this that won't screw up the machined friction surface? I'd hate to have to replace the clutch as it worked fine before the car was taken apart.

Also, what a good method for cleaning up the entire unit and the 30 plus years of grime and dust in there.


Restoration / Worn clutch linkage questions
« on: April 19, 2018, 11:50:11 PM »
The original clutch linkage parts from my '68 small block are showing the wear of 50 years and many, many miles. Both ends of the upper pushrod and the linkage end of the lower adjustable pushrod are worn like you see in the picture below. The picture below is the worst of the three push rod ends. The holes in the clutch pedal and each of the Z bar arms that the push rod ends mate with are all elongated a little bit.

When the pushrods are inserted into their respective holes in the clutch pedal and the Z bar, there is about a 1/16 inch of slop that you can move the pushrod back and forth in the hole.

So my questions are.......

1) When I took this car apart for restoration, there wasn't any problem with the way the clutch operated.  Should I just leave these parts alone and run with them?

2) Replace them with aftermarket parts? I hate swapping aftermarket parts for original GM parts unless it's absolutely necessary. It would be about $80 to replace and although that's not a whole lot, it's another unexpected expense and they start to add up after a while!

3) Is there any way to repair? I don't think there's much you could do with the pushrods. With the clutch pedal and the Z bar, I thought about two things. 1) Weld the holes shut and re-drill them to the right size....or 2) Drill the holes oversized and put a bushing of some sort in there.

I was set to try one of those methods but then realized the Z-bar is hardened steel. I'm not sure if a new hole drilled through the filler weld material would be as tough as the hardened steel it replaced.....and I'm not sure I could even drill through the hardened steel to put a bushing in.

Wondering what the thoughts are on this?


Restoration / Correct positraction lubrication tag ???
« on: April 04, 2018, 03:10:49 PM »
I have a '68 with a 10 bolt positraction rear end. I would like to know what is the correct "use positraction lube only" tag should be used with it.

I have looked in the catalogs and on this site and can't seem to come up with a definitive answer.

What I have seen so far suggests the red triangular tag was only used with 12 bolts rear ends on the fill plug (not sure why they offer them in 3/4 inch and 1 inch versions).....and that 10 bolts used the metal tag attached to one of the cover bolts.

If the metal tag is correct for a 10 bolt, which cover bolt would it go on and how should it be oriented?


Restoration / Parking brake center cable length ???
« on: March 16, 2018, 10:36:04 PM »
Parking brake center cable length ???

I'm am replacing all of the parking brake cables front to back on my '68.

I was looking at different Camaro parts suppliers for replacements. I was leaning towards a kit at Heartbeat City. The only problem was that they advertise the length of their center cable as 89 inches. Every other supplier who gave the length of the center cable listed it as 79 inches. I measured my original center cable and it is 79 inches.

I called Heartbeat city and asked about this. I asked if the 89 inches shown on their website was possibly an error. The guy I talked to was adamant that the 89 inches was correct and that he has actually measured these cables himself.

I would have to believe if their cable was 10 inches longer than the original, you would never be able to tighten it.

It doesn't make sense to me that there would be two different length cables available. Just wondering what anyone else thinks about this.

Also any opinions as to who is supplying good accurate reproductions.


Restoration / Rear drum brake backing plate questions.
« on: March 16, 2018, 10:26:21 PM »
I am going to have my differential gone through and while it's apart, sandblasted and painted. My backing plates are looking a little rough on the inside and I might be replacing them. I'll have a better idea of their condition after sandblasting.


1) In all the photos I have seen of repro backing plates, none seem to have the 1" wide, 180 degree semi-circular plate spot welded to the rear lower half of the backing plate (outlined in red on my photo below.) Is it normal that repro plates do not come with this part? I wonder why they are not there? I wouldn't think the factory would have went through the effort of putting them there if they didn't serve a purpose. Maybe to help keep dirt and water out?

2) Every Camaro parts place that I have looked at repro plates, they cost about $63.00 each. That seems like a lot for what they are. I see you can get Dorman brand plates for '78 and later Camaros at the local auto parts store for $18.00 each. Dorman does not seem to have plates for 1st gen Camaros though. Does anyone know if 1st gen plates are out there more reasonable than $63.00 each?

3) Having almost no experience with rebuilding drum brakes, I have two questions about the areas on the backing plates that the shoes contact......There are three slightly raised areas on each side of the plate that the shoe contacts. (circled in red in the 2nd photo below).......As the shoes move back and forth, is it just metal to metal contact between the shoes and the plates or is something applied there to reduce friction?....These raised areas on my plates are a little rough and crusty right now. If sandblasting or sanding smooths them out, I would assume the plates would be OK to re-use. Any opinions on that?


Restoration / Door panel water shield questions ???
« on: October 28, 2017, 06:35:07 PM »
I purchased a set of door and 1/4 window water shields (4 pieces) from Heartbeat City for my '68 which has the deluxe interior. I bought the Mylar ones thinking that they would be better than the paper ones (they cost more.) The manufacturer's name is REM. REM's label shows them to be for a '69. Heartbeat's label says for a '68 or '69.

There are differences between my originals and these repros. I want to go over the differences and see if someone can explain them.....and if these are the best I can expect to find or if there are better ones out there.

The width of the repro door shields (side edge to side edge) are 3/4 inch narrower than the originals. They are not wide enough to cover both of the indented channels on each side of the inner door structure where the bead of caulking (sealant) goes......this is reason enough by itself to return them.

On my original door shields, the top, front corners are shaped differently. The driver's side has a cut out at that corner that the passenger side doesn't. The repros have the cut out on both sides. I don't have a clue why the originals are different side to side. That cut out leaves part of an opening in the door structure uncovered. Seems like water could get through there.

Where the originals have a vinyl pouch that fits around the interior door latch mechanism, the repros have nothing but a one inch diameter perforated circle that you can punch out for the door latch to stick through......I don't understand that because the door latch mechanism is too big to fit through that hole and it won't be water tight.

So just looking for some opinions, explanations, and/or advise.


Restoration / Stripping paint from '68 console gauge cover?
« on: May 23, 2017, 02:41:39 PM »
Any suggestions as to what will strip the paint off of a '68 console gauge cover without hurting the plastic itself.

I repainted mine and am not happy with the results and want to start over

Mine has the factory paint on it and then a couple of coats that I put on it. The black paint came out great. When I tried to do the silver trim, that did not work out so well.

I'd rather start from scratch rather than sanding and piling more paint on it.


Restoration / 68 console shift plate woodgrain panel replacement
« on: May 17, 2017, 02:31:31 AM »
I removed the woodgrain panel from my '68 console shift plate so I could send the shift plate out for re-chroming.

The woodgrain decal itself is bonded to a thin metal backing plate and the backing plate is glued to the shift plate. They both had to come off. I was hoping to get the woodgrain panel off without damaging it so I could put it back on later but didn't fare too well there.

I heated it with a heat gun as much as I dared and tried to gently pry it up. It would come up very slowly but not without distorting and ruining the metal backing plate of the woodgrain. I don't know what kind of glue GM used for that but it is some very tough stuff!

Getting to my question, I see many vendors sell the woodgrain replacement panel that includes the metal backing plate. Just wondering if anyone can recommend who to buy from with regards to quality, good fitment, and woodgrain that is close to the original in color and pattern.


I'm wondering if anyone has found a decent set of inner and outer window felts for a '68 that has both the deluxe interior and the reveal belt moldings on the tops of the doors and quarter window area.

I have bought two sets and looked at another and they have all had issues. The most recent ones I tried were bought two or three years ago and the others were before that. So I don't know what improvements may have been made since them.

1st set: Ordered from Steele Rubber and got a box of Repops brand inside of a Steele shipping box. The problem with these was with the triangular shaped tabs on the outer felts that fit into slots on the reveal moldings and then get bent over. They were not stamped completely through and could not be pried up.

2nd set: Don't remember the brand but I looked at them in person at Eckler's facility in Titusville, FL. The same tabs on the outer felts that I mentioned above did not match up with the slots on my reveal moldings.

3rd set: These are PUI brand and pictured below. The outer felts fit my reveal moldings fine and other them not being as thick as I would have liked them (I wish the whiskers were longer), they are OK.......

The big problem with these is with the inner felts that attach to the door panel and rear seat side panels. The flat stainless steel bead on these that extends over the top of the door panel is not wide enough. Actually, it is the same width as the original GM but is offset and covers an 1/8 inch less of the top of the door panel than the original GM one did. That wouldn't be a big deal except the original stainless steel bead left a permanent indentation in the vinyl running the length of the door panel. The PUI piece doesn't cover it and it stands out like a sore thumb!

The short inner felt that goes on the top of the rear seat side panel for the quarter window has even more issues. It is 5/8 inch longer that the original GM piece. (Geez, how can you screw that up?) And also, where as the original GM piece was made with a gentle curve to exactly fit the curvature of the side panel, the PUI piece was formed as a straight piece and then hit with something to curve it. The whole piece is distorted at the curve and the curvature doesn't match the side panel. The fit is terrible!

So again, I was wondering if anyone has found a manufacturer they are happy with that didn't have the same issues as the ones above.


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