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Topics - Mark

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For any of you with problem with seeing the embedded photobucket images since they changed their policy.  There is a fix if you use Google Chrome and a similar one if you use fire fox.  Link is below:

Should make all embedded images visible again, may not be necessary if you uploaded an image to the site, but if it's linked right off of photobucket it does work to make them visible again.  Don't know if you can then download them or not.  I use IE (yes I'm old) so I can't use it, but I do know it works.

General Discussion / 67 Big Block with Bench Seat
« on: March 02, 2016, 11:58:18 AM »
Heres a 67 white on white 06C coupe with a BB, TH400 and a bench seat.

For sale, 35K here.  I suppose I should add I know nothing about the car, including if its real or not.  It has D55 in the pictures and a bench seat, which seems like an unlikely combo and there should be a 2M on the cowl tag.

General Discussion / Interesting Craigslist Finds
« on: December 17, 2014, 02:22:24 AM »
Thought I would start a thread where we can post interesting items relating to 67 to 69 Camaros, that we are not going to try and buy ourselves.  Lets limit to 67-69 Camaros and parts for them.  Don't list stuff you are trying to sell yourself, just things that you have found surfing the web.

I'll start it off with a 69 Rolling Body in Pittsfield MA for $5500.  Looks like it was a basic 327/TH350 car, looks like 124379N545473, and an 11C build was Daytona Yellow, with a black standard interior.

General Discussion / 67 Camaro Pilot Line Assembly Process and Procedures
« on: December 13, 2014, 12:58:19 AM »
I started this thread over at, but though I would get a more even keeled discussion here.  I'm not interested in any one particular car, I'm only interested in the process.  How did pilot cars go from a pile of sheetmetal to a finished vehicle.  Any discussion even about how and where other lines of the same time period were built is helpfull to the discussion.

GM says that there were 49 "F" Cars built at or for the Norwood Plant, and 3 at or for the LOS plant in late May early June of 66 by Fisher for GM. GM documetation says that there were, 27 cars for sales, 17 for engineering, and 12 for manufacturing, and 3 misc (?)cars scheduled. (note that this adds up to 57 pilot cars - more than is accounted for in their build totals (the sheets with tag numbers and option lists).

33 of them had show paint applied, one (no. 6) was shipped in primer to engineering. Drivetrains varied from 6 cylinders, 283's, 327's and 350s and a mixture of power glides and manual transmissions, and there was a mixture of convertibles and coupes.

The following dates relate to the cars and their introduction to the public.

Fisher builds car bodies from 5/21/66 (earliest promised delivery) to 6/6/66 (latest promised delivery) at which time they were delivered to GM.

Pete Estes announces the Camaro name in a 14 city closed circuit televised conference on June 29 1966, cars had no name up to that point and thus no emblems or name plates.

Chevrolet holds a sales conference in Detroit 8/22-8/23/66. Where at least one Camaro and possibly others were presented to the Chevrolet Sales people.

Major advertising campaign occurs at the Proving grounds 9/28-9/29/66 with 25 Camaros present and 100 members of the press invited to drive the Camaros. Probably can assume that these are mostly the 27 cars noted in the assembly documents that say they were destined for the sales organization, probably most of them with show paint.

Camaro released to the public 9/29/66.

We know of at least 3 and possibly 4 Pilot cars that still exist, VIN N100001, with NOR body number 860. Body numbers NOR 10 NOR 13, and NOR 31. NOR 10 and 13 have 05B Norwood Build Dates, NOR 1 and 31 have 09B dated tags.

OK lets start with the where.

Where were these cars actually assembled for "delivery to GM", and what does delivery to GM mean. If the cars were practially hand built at the small pilot assembly line at the Norwood (and/or LOS) plants, wouldn't they already be in GMs hands? Norwood (and LOS) was in full spring production mode on the plant internal assembly lines, so its not even conceivable (at least to me) that they would assemble pilot bodies on the main interior line, with no tooling, parts or anything else needed to built these cars.

What was the capabilities of the pilot assembly line at Norwood? Could they weld a complete body tub together from loose stamped panels? I would assume they could paint the bodies, and assemble them onto chassis' and install drive trains.

Lets leave it at getting a Camaro body assembled painted, etc and delivered to GM, then we can move on to where the cars went from there. Comments, other questions, answers?

Originality / June 69 Z28 Tachs
« on: May 27, 2014, 04:42:16 PM »
Anyone have a Z28 with a 6K redline/7K top of scale tach in an 06a built norwood Z?  I know they should have been 6K/8K by then, trying to see if there was a shortage of the 8K versions in mid to late June, or if a tach was just swapped with an incorrect one.

General Discussion / Fake 67 Pacecar on Ebay
« on: October 07, 2013, 11:07:44 PM »

All made up to look like a Pacecar. Has a posted vin of 124667N155815 and a cowl tag of 05B, body number 158332.  He actually calls it a Pacesetter car, apparently not knowing exactly what the pacesetter program was.

7N155815 is a December of 66 VIN, and a body number of 158332 is beyond the end of 67 Camaro production at Norwood.

General Discussion / 67 Convertible on Ebay - Repro Tag
« on: December 18, 2012, 12:02:48 AM »
Heres a 67 BB car dressed like a pacecar but its a repro tag.


Body number is way out of order for a deluxe interiored convertible.  Probably was originally a standard interior car, who knows what it really was color, drivetrain or options beyond that.

Decoding/Numbers / 67 Pacecar?
« on: October 15, 2012, 11:22:18 AM »
This car is on Ebay claimed to be a 67 PC that was a giveaway from Montgomery Ward and Sears, yet it carries the fleet order number for being a Pacecar replica delivered to the track and its an RS only (no 4 option code).  Seriouslly doubt that any kind of replica giveaway car had anything to do with the fleet ordered cars going to the track, infact I doubt they were anthing more than white convertibles with a blue interior that a dealer made up as needed for the various giveaways they had that year.  Fake tag or an RS only delivered to Indy?


This car has a VIN of 124667N196759
Trim tag is
03C                 E
67 12467  NOR  91214
756-Z               N-2
E   2LGR   3L
4P 5Y

Car has a reproduction WS (owner knows and noted it) an apparently real POP, and an original Cowl Tag although the rivits appear to be replacements and is equipped with a 327/210 V0202ME coded engine with a 2 spd powerglide transmission.  Car appears very original, and has had a same color older repaint sometime in its past.  There is some original assembly line markings are still visible on the inside of the valence.  Car has a ten bolt axle, no sign of a traction rod, or brackets on the axle or body of the car, no obvious 4 speed hole in the floor visible from below the car.

From the auction Question and answer section

Q:  I forgot to say also that the 327/210 engine in the car matches the engine code (ME) in your POP booklet, but it is the "4P" that is throwing me off, because that code "4P" is designated for a SS 350 or 327/275hp (L30/M20) which is kind of rare, but not designated for a 327/210hp. Sorry if I repeated myself!:-) Thanks! Tom Sep-30-11
A:   I believe the cowl tag is a miss-marked origional. The first owner told me that he originally ordered the car with a 4speed and higher hp engine but later changed it to the base engine and automatic because his daughter would be driving the car. The partial vin under the front vent matches and the engine number is correct The car was built as a base automatic

Knowing that the car is decodes as follows:

1 = Chevrolet
2 = Camaro
4 = 8-cylinder engine
67 = convertible body
7 = 1967 model year
N = Norwood, OH assembly plant
196759 = vehicle serial number sequence
Decode for body number: 091214
03C = Built the Third week of March.
67-12467 = Standard Interior Convertible.
NOR = Built in Norwood Ohio.
756 = Standard Black Bench Seats.
Z = (A50) Strato Bucket Seats.
N-2 = Lower Color is Madeira Maroon and the Convertible Top Color is Black.
E = Interior paint is Black
1E = (A01) Tinted All Glass
2L = (M20) 4-speed floor shifter
2G = (D55) Console front compartment
2R = (U80) Speaker rear
3L = (Z22) Rally Sport Package
4P = (L48) SS 350 or (L30) 327-275H
5Y = (A39) Belts All Deluxe

Lets assume the owners relating of the original owners story is correct.  Knowing that the body number of 67/68 Camaros was assigned by the factory when the order was accepted and the car was scheduled to be built, how can we reconcile the owners story that the buyer changed his mind and wanted an automatic RS only instead of an 4 speed RS/SS as indicated on the order, and somehow the dealer must have got hold of the Factory directly and had the build order changed after the cowl tag was made, but before the car was actually assembled.  There would be no way to change the process once the car actually started down the assembly line.  And since the order was changed before the car was actually started, why wouldn't GM just have Fisher just make up a new correctly configured tag instead of sticking an incorrect tag on the car with some kind of instruction that says ingnore the normal construction process, and read this sticky note that says build it as an RS with an automatic instead of an RS/SS with a 4 speed.

Heres another car of the same build period for comparision, lower VIN but higher body number, which at best indicates this cars (discussed above) cowl tag sat around for almost a week after this reference car was built, yet the order was accepted a 4 days or so earlier than this ones.  If this one was held up and then stuck back into the assembly line a week later, why not make a new tag with the correct info on it.

1 = Chevrolet
2 = Camaro
3 = 6-cylinder engine
67 = convertible body
7 = 1967 model year
N = Norwood, OH assembly plant
193XXX = vehicle serial number sequence
Decode for body number: 0930XX
03C = Third Week of March.
67-12467 = Standard Interior Convertible.
NOR = Built in Norwood Ohio.
760 = Standard Black Bucket Seats.
Z = (A50) Strato Bucket Seats.
K-2 = Lower Color is Emerald Turquoise and the Convertible Top Color is Black.

3S = (Z23) Interior Decor group

How does this occur?

Originality / Pace Car Door Decals
« on: February 27, 2010, 10:10:49 PM »
Has anyone ever seen a GM part number for the 69 Camaro Pacecars?  I beleive the 67 pacecars had their door decals made by Cambell Ewald which was (and maybe still is) the advertising agency for the Indianapolis speedway back in the day.  They provided the decals to the local Zone office and/or the dealerships that were prepping the cars for the activities surrounding the race for installation.  If there are no GM part numbers for the 69 decals then the stories of them being provided in the trunks of all Z11 leaving the factory is False and only the cars that actually served as "official" vehicles of one form or another were ever equipped with decals, and they didn't come from the factory.  So I'm looking for anyone who might have stumbled across any mention of a 69 "indy pacecar" decal in service bulletins, parts manuals, anything.

General Discussion / 2009 Camaro Pictures
« on: January 07, 2006, 09:04:24 PM »

Video link here:

(link changed by road and track)

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