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Messages - Bryan302

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Restoration / Re: 1968 1969 deluxe door panel restore
« on: April 13, 2017, 09:33:59 PM »
Hi Joe,

Yes I have!  I can't tell you how happy I was with the job that Eric did.  You need to ask for Melanie to start with.  I took my original deluxe door and qtr. panels to the Corvette expo and dropped them off.  My original backs were used and they preserved the original fisher writing on the back side, polished my original chrome and reinstalled, etc.  You will not be disappointed!

PM me your email and I will email you photo's of the finished product when I got them back.


Originality / Re: Hardware Identification & Reference 1967 - 1969
« on: March 04, 2017, 06:00:42 AM »
Gary, Ding Dang-it, I think I plainly stated that it was a good idea to reference the GM part number and the page and UPC from the AIM.

If there are four bolts that hold the two braces from core support to fender, then note there are four bolts for these locations.  The same will be for inner fender, etc.

As I said, the main purpose is to identify the proper TYPE bolt, it's appearance, finish and design!!  How many there are, can be noted along with the casual mention of the possible head markings that might be found there.

I do believe that the mention of the many suppliers of each bolt has been beat to death.  The description of the hardware and location has not.


The fact that the AIM is so uninformative of the description and appearance of the hardware is the reason for the need of a good reference.

Originality / Re: Hardware Identification & Reference 1967 - 1969
« on: March 03, 2017, 10:45:16 PM »
Mike, Thanks very much for linking to the other hardware pages.  This will be very useful.

Gary, This system We have in mind WILL NOT require a driver as you mentioned.  It will also not require an outside photo holding source.  Each interested individual that post will be the driver.

What we would like to see happen is the start of a CATALOGING system that would describe the bolt or hardware and tell exactly it's location on the car.  The AIM does not do this.  You only have a GM part number and a drawing of a screw.

If a photo is taken in two views as I described above and a description is written of the screw and a location, we could end up with a catalog telling where every screw and bolt went on the whole car.  Those photo's taken in the car showing the bolt head, doesn't do any good if you need to know where that bolt went and what length it was and if it was a captured washer or not, etc.

I know the head markings are a totally different ball game, this can be touched on due to the many brands that are supplied, but is not the main task here.  I think it would be good to include the markings that could be involved with the particular piece of hardware.


Originality / Hardware Identification & Reference 1967 - 1969
« on: March 02, 2017, 10:06:14 PM »
In talking with several CRG members, it has been discussed that it would be very useful and informative to have a general location to have a Identification and Reference library for 1967, 1968, 1969 hardware.  It was also discussed that this thread could be the building and storing location for enough useful information to make a section or library to use on the CRG main page, or at least a section for Hardware reference.

Not everybody had the fore thought to bag and tag their hardware, or thought there was no need, that you would remember where that particular screw or bolt went, Ha!.  It was also the possibility that something or someone would disturb your stash of preserved hardware.

Last but not least, we all know the AIM only gives a general idea of the description and is very uninformative, and also gives a GM part number. 

Basically, the general idea for this reference is to IDENTIFY the EXACT HARDWARE that goes in a PARTICULAR LOCATION, with a PHOTO (using two pieces of the same type hardware, one for side view, one for top view showing maker mark) , DIMENSIONS (using ruler in photo), and DESCRIPTION.

It is only a suggestion, but think it would be a good idea to do this in sections, Front cap hardware first, then maybe subframe,  etc.

Photo: ONE photo w/ two views and measurement
AIM page number and UPC number:
GM part number:        Available Yes / NO
AMK part number:      Available  Yes / No
Description:  Recessed Hex Head or Plain Hex Head, etc.
                     Captured floating washer or Solid washer, etc.
                     Pointed end or flat end, etc.
Hardware finish:

This is only several members idea and NEED, so we hope everyone else can make use and enjoy this also.


Originality / Re: Identifying 3961398 Oil Pan, 1969 302 Production line?
« on: February 22, 2017, 05:30:33 AM »
Thanks Steve,

Just curious, but have you ever compared your production line pan against your NOS 251 pan?  Are there any differences at all?


Originality / Re: Identifying 3961398 Oil Pan, 1969 302 Production line?
« on: February 20, 2017, 04:50:17 AM »
Thanks Lynn, That is a very good comparison between the original and service replacements.  That is a good reference showing the measurement for the thin or thick front seal.

One thing that I would like to bring up, but not to bring 67-68's in this.  I saw in the 68 Z28 oil pan thread, post #10 (link in my first post above) that Jerry (1968 Z28) mentioned that he found in the 1969 parts manual that the 1969 pan was 3974251, vs. the P&A catalog stating it was 3961398.  The 1969 parts manual also stated the pn# 3927134 was for BOTH 1967 and 1968 302.  It has been determined by original survivor cars and known experts that 67 and 68 302 oil pans are definitely different!

I have always heard that GM did not change the part number unless the part actually changed in some form or fashion.  So, If 67 and 68 302 pans are different, why or how are they the same part number?  I suspect the same thing is going on with 69 with these two part numbers being listed for the 1969 302, 3974251 and 3961398.

I do realize that the only answer is going to come from an NOS example, or a close study among all part numbers and parts books.  At least, I would like to find out if there were actually two production line 1969 302 oil pans, or a parts book FUBAR!


Originality / Re: Identifying 3961398 Oil Pan, 1969 302 Production line?
« on: February 17, 2017, 06:29:46 AM »
When I saw that the P&A listed pn #3961398 as the 302 pan in the Feb. '69 time frame, I remembered Steve's NOS example of 3974251 being dated Feb. 1969 also.   This could be a time of change between the two, or they used both at the same time, etc.  I was hoping someone would have an NOS example of 3961398 or other parts catalogs such as Mitchell Manuals, etc. to have another listing of this pan.  GM didn't just stick this PN# in the manual, there has got to be something to this pan's existence.  It might just be the early to mid production line pan!! ??  It might not!  Let's see what can be found?


Originality / Identifying 3961398 Oil Pan, 1969 302 Production line?
« on: February 13, 2017, 06:42:11 AM »
In doing a little research on 302 oil pans, I came across the part # 3961398 in the Feb. 1969 P&A catalog.  This is on pg. 1-38 in revision dated 2-15-69.  This oil pan was listed for 1967-69 302 engines. 

It is also known that 67-69 302's had their own distinct oil pan, according to Jerry M. and other facts.

I also found where the progression was believed to be as follows, 1968 302 3927134; 1969 302 3961398; 1969 302 3974251; and into replacements 360009, 465220, 360450.

The controversy I saw and had questions about were the listing in the P&A catalog for 3961398, dated February of 1969 and the post that Steve (Z28Z11) made in the thread below with his NOS pan 3974251, dated 2-14-69
Identifing 68 Z28 oil pan, post #5.

With all this said, my question is:

Is this 3961398 pan the original Assembly line 1969 302 oil pan?

Was 3961398 short lived and quickly replaced by 3974251?


Originality / Re: Service Engines (CE coded)
« on: January 29, 2017, 03:31:46 AM »
Purchased my CE bare block in 4/74. 3970010, B 12 4, CE3A973  96. Stamp isn't the best. Tried to upload photo but file is to big or something, it just won't take it.

Several months ago, I acquired a CE block, brought it home and stashed it in the corner.  Today, I went over the block to see what I had.  I was very surprised to find that the assembly date was before the casting date.  After comparing dates and stamps of the chart on this thread, I said, I be damn.

My new block is casting 3970010 and casting date of B.12.4.  The stamping is CE3A980 75.  I cleaned and searched the oil pan rails and found no dates.  There was numerous letters stamped at random all along the rail and webs.

jvb6648's block     3970010, B.12.4, CE3A973 96
Bryan302's block   3970010, B.12.4, CE3A980 75

So, either the worker was drinking, or there is something to learn here!


Originality / Re: Side terminal battery cables for late 69 ss396
« on: January 15, 2017, 01:31:18 AM »
Your welcome, Hope it works out for you.


I talked the AS / AV situation over with Don.  I asked about all the correctness, and what was, and what wasn't correct.  The AS / AV cables made today DO NOT have the Delco eye!!  This deduction was all about the mold and the expense of the mold verses the sales of the cables!!!  If we ALL would buy the absolute correct cables, and pay the price, what ever that might be, (I'm GUESSING 75.00 to 100.00 each.), I'm sure we could sweet talk them into building a correct mold.

That said, the AS / AV cables are exactly dead nuts the correct length, the ends are very close, the part number and code are dead nuts.  The bolt sizes are both 3/8", (but how many collectors have an original Y77 stashed in their closet?).  We are going to Delco, NAPA or whatever and get a battery, and use a topper anyway!  So, if you did have the correct 5/16 and 3/8, you would have to make a bushing.  With all this crap said, NCRS takes a voluntary deduction for battery and cables.  Most judges realize that this is the best that there is available.  And, if you do find an NOS cable, you probably won't be able to bend it, or afford it.

American Auto wire.
6297651 AV is pn#22705
6297684 AS is pn#43263


Originality / Re: Side terminal battery cables for late 69 ss396
« on: January 13, 2017, 04:22:41 PM »

May I suggest calling Mr. Don Bock, the R&D manager of American Auto Wire at 856-933-0801, ext. 216.  He IS Da Man.  He helped me with the 651AV and 684AS cables for the 302. 

If you can do a little research on your 396 cables, especially the H. P. rating.  If the 6297652FA and 6297685AT are correct, then Don can help you.  American Auto Wire is the source!  LL and Heartbeat are the middlemen, and can NOT help you.  Call Don!


1968 - Orphans / 1968 SS 350 8N433492 and 68 coupe 8N444190
« on: November 28, 2016, 05:39:56 AM »
If you have a Y2 Butternut Yellow 68 SS 350 w/ VIN 124378N433492, I have a nice addition to your cars history.

also a

RR Matador red coupe w/ VIN of 124378N444190, I have a nice addition to your cars history.

Both of these cars are from Smith Chevrolet, San Antone, TX.  Just prove it's yours!


Decoding/Numbers / Re: Funny looking trim tag
« on: October 27, 2016, 04:21:05 PM »
Bryon, It's not the cast date that matters, it's the assembly date, casting date, and the VIN that it ended up with in the car.  Like I said, several people have been striving to find a 010 block in a Z28 earlier than the numbers above.  There is also the definite ranges and groupings that have become obvious.  Those 04L dates above were very tight grouped.  This car in question is within this group!


Decoding/Numbers / Re: Funny looking trim tag
« on: October 27, 2016, 04:00:40 PM »
Yes, if you are going by the charts and figuring the production date, they will come out within a day.  We have been logging actual dates and casting numbers.  The first 010 block that has been logged was cast D. 22. 9 and a VIN 0f 6389xx.  Furthermore, Buddy's car was the first 010 known at 639xxx until this 6389xx came along.  We have five 04L's within a range of 6369xx to 6372xx.  ALL of them are 618 blocks!!  Buddy has been looking for an 010 earlier than his, for a LONG time.  This 6389xx just barely squeezed by him.  Do you think one in the 637 range is just going to bully its way to the top, Nope.

Congratulations Gary, now you know, along with the rest that didn't need to know!!!


Decoding/Numbers / Re: Funny looking trim tag
« on: October 21, 2016, 07:23:48 PM »
No way is a 3970010 block correct for 9N637177 and 637xxx range.  NOM for sure!


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