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Messages - Dave69x33

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1
Restoration / Re: Door locks , glove box recoded
« on: February 29, 2024, 05:44:20 PM »
Interesting topic one I am dealing with on my '69 Z28 Camaro.

When I restored my Camaro between 1995 - 2000, I purchase a GM NOS lock set that included the doors, trunk lid, glove box and ignition and had a set of NOS key blanks.

ISSUE: My door and trunk lid locks do not include the square tab in the inner spring loaded dust cover. The dust cover opening in my locks is an open rectangle.  It took a while but I managed to remove the round stainless bezels (covers) from the door and trunk locks and removed the dust covers with the square tabs. I was able to hand polish the scratches from the bezels and "correct style" dust covers.  I found a special automotive door lock bezel removal/installation tool on eBay Market Place but is comes from China.  I have not ready any reviews how well it works, and I hesitate to purchase the tool and disassemble my NOS door locks to swap out and install the correct dust covers.

Does the Steve Walker remove and restore the bezel and dust covers when he services vintage auto key locks?

Here is a view of the tab in the door and trunk locks and the special tool I referred to.

Thanks!
Dave     


2
Research Topics & Reports / Re: Original cowl hood photos needed
« on: February 08, 2024, 05:36:31 PM »
I don't believe I have any pictures of my cowl induction hood on my 05A Norwood build 1969 Z28 during the restoration without the hood insulation. 

Just a thought...as you do this research, original hoods (not only cowl hoods) installed at the assembly plant are date coded in the outside vertical flange surface, in the rear driver's side corner. My hood is stamped "18" which is the 18th week in 1969, which was from April 28 - May 4, 1969. 

I am not at home at the moment to post a picture of the hood date code but will do that if it helps!

Dave

3
General Discussion / Re: Barrett Jackson
« on: January 31, 2024, 05:27:13 PM »
I just reviewed the Camaros links posted on the '69 Camaros that sold at B-J Scottsdale. Could not help myself considering the hammer prices!

The Dusk Blue Z28 Lot #1023.1 that sold for $117K looked very nice based on the pictures. Restoration accuracy must not have been top of mind for the buyer as I quickly found numerous mistakes.  All were correctable but it goes to show some folks don't care about the details and throw down big money.  The entire auction process has become very interesting and there are many factors that lead to sale prices, some which are ego driven.  For most of us CRG members and current 1st Gen Camaro owners, we value authenticity and restoration accuracy...I know that I do which might come to my disadvantage...LOL!

Dave

4
Originality / Re: Z/28 Oil Pan?
« on: January 21, 2024, 09:51:23 PM »
Thanks Chick. I went back thru the pics on Skip’s survivor and saw his oil pan drain plug and it does match his.

Was looking thru my used hardware and found my used oil pan drain plug. I was not sure if it was was the original. Will get it cleaned up, painted, and back on my ‘69!

5
Originality / Re: Z/28 Oil Pan?
« on: January 21, 2024, 07:51:23 PM »
While on the topic of original ‘69 SB and Z28 oil pans, does this look like the correct oil pan drain plug?

I read in the 1969 Camaro Judging Legends Manual, the drain plug should include an “A” in the indented head.  The plug I have has concentric rings around the “A”.

6
Restoration / Re: 1969 Z/28 Camaro "472" Intake Manifold Expansion Plug
« on: January 21, 2024, 11:50:21 AM »
Lloyd,

How did you remove and install the new freeze plug?  With heat, special press tool?

Did you or the one who restored your intake remove the (2) pipe plugs and the heater core hose fitting?

Jerry MacNeish restored one of my 472 intakes. It appears he left the freeze plug in the manifold when it was “reskinned” or bead blasted as the freeze plug has the appearance of being blasted.

Thanks,
Dave

7
Originality / Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« on: January 18, 2024, 04:54:42 PM »
Added input from several more Camaros located in the Indianapolis area where I live and inspected:

10A (early, pre-X code), Z28, NW, bolt in, from Dave69X33, friends car, original, restored.
10B (early, pre-X code), std. 327, NW, push in, from KevinW.
10D (early, pre-X code), std. 327, NW, push in, from Dave69x33, friends car, original owner, unrestored.
12B (early, pre-X code), RS Z28, VN, push in, HOT302.
01B, X11 SS350, NW, push in, Iowa Jon.
01B, SS/RS 350, VN, push in, from x66 714.
02B, X33, RS Z28, push in, from Edgemontvllage, original unrestored (see photo included in this discussion).
02D, X33 Z28, NW, push in, from RikerZ28.
02D, X66 L78 SS396 (survivor), NW, bolt in, from Edgemontvillage, Doug Perry's car (see photo included in this discussion).
02D, X66 L78 SS396, NW, push in, from Dave69X33, friend's car.
03E, X33 non-RS Z28, NW, Legends Certified 2023, push in, from Dave69X33, friend's car, original, restored.
03E, X11, NW, push in, from Clete.
04C, model?, plant? push in, from L78 steve.
04C, Z11 L48 Pace Car, VN, push in, from 169INDY.
04C, Z10, NW, push in, from Dusk Blue Z.
04C, Z11 Pace Car, NW, bolt in, from Dave69X33, friends car, original restored. Note: Same round rubber bolt in style Edgemontvillage showed in the 02D X66 L78 SS survivor.
05A, SS, VN, bolt in, from KevinW.
05A, X33 RS Z28, NW, push in, Dave69x33' car, original restored (see photo included in this discussion).
05A, X77 Z28, NW, push in, from Iowa Jon.
05A, X77 Z28, NW, bolt in, from x77-69z28.
05A, X77 Z28, NW, push in, from Dusk Blue Z.
05C, Z11 Pace Car, NW, push in, from Dave69x33, friend's car.
05E, X77 Z28, NW, bolt in, from copo.
05E, X77 Z28, NW, push in, from Dave69x33, friend's car.
06A, X44, NW bolt in, from copo.
08E, X66 SS396, NW, bush in, from x66 714.
09C, X77 Z28, NW, push in, from Badshifter.
09C. X33 Z28, NW, push in, from john jay 69Z.
09D, X44 427 COPO, NW, push in, from R68 GTO (COPO BE axle).
09D, X77 Z28 JL8, NW, push in, from Dave69x33, friend's car, original restored, owned since 1978.
09D, X77 Z28, NW, bolt-in, from 68camaroZ28, Skip's unrestored survivor.

8
Restoration / Re: 1969 Z/28 Camaro "472" Intake Manifold Expansion Plug
« on: January 16, 2024, 05:16:50 PM »
Lloyd,

Just ran across this topic and interested in one of your unmarked plugs is you still have any spares.  I am planning to restore a replacement "472" intake for my '69Z and the only details needed are this press in plug and the pipe plug that has a square pocket design for the drive in tool.

Thanks,

Dave

9
Originality / Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« on: January 12, 2024, 10:58:10 PM »
Any chance to get to get a picture of Skip’s rectangular bumper?

10
Originality / Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« on: January 12, 2024, 05:00:43 PM »
TO: 68camaroZ28, what shape bolt-in bumper was in Skip's Z28, round or rectangular?

Updated list with input from Clete and 68camaroz28

10B ('68), std. 327, NW, push in, from KevinW
10D ('68), std. 327, NW, push in, from Dave69x33, original owner, unrestored
12B ('68), RS Z28, VN, push in, HOT302
01B, X11 SS350, NW, push in, Iowa Jon
01B, SS/RS 350, VN, push in, from x66 714
02B, X33, RS Z28, push in, from Edgemontvllage, original unrestored
02D, X33 Z28, NW, push in, from RikerZ28
02D, X66 L78 SS396 (survivor), NW, bolt in, from Edgemontvillage, Doug Perry's car
03E, X33 non-RS Z28, NW, Legends Certified 2023, push in, from Dave69X33, friend's car
03E, X11, NW, push in, from Clete
04C, model?, plant? push in, from L78 steve
04C, Z11 L48 Pace Car, VN, push in, from 169INDY
04C, Z10, NW, push in, from Dusk Blue Z
05A, SS, VN, bolt in, from KevinW
05A, X33 RS Z28, NW, push in, Dave69x33
05A, X77 Z28, NW, push in, from Iowa Jon
05A, X77 Z28, NW, bolt in, from x77-69z28
05A, X77 Z28, NW, push in, from Dusk Blue Z
05C, Z11 Pace Car, NW, push in, from Dave69x33, friend's car
05E, X77 Z28, NW, bolt in from copo
06A, X44, NW bolt in, from copo
08E, X66 SS396, NW, bush in, from x66 714
09C, X77 Z28, NW, push in, from Badshifter
09C. X33 Z28, NW, push in, from john jay 69Z
09D, X44 427 COPO, NW, push in, from R68 GTO (COPO BE axle)
09D, X77 Z28, NW, push in, from Dave69x33 (friend's car)
09D, X77 Z28, NW, bolt-in, from 68camaroZ28, Skip's unrestored survivor.


11
Originality / Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« on: January 12, 2024, 11:54:38 AM »
68camaroZ28, never mind, found it. It’s a X77 Z28.  Thought I remembered reading about Skip’s Z28 over on the Original Cars and Details discussion topic. I met Skip and saw his amazing survivor at the 2023 Nationals! Great time piece!

12
Originality / Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« on: January 12, 2024, 11:43:09 AM »
Thanks Clete!

68camaro28,  what model is Skip’s 09D, X77 Z28?

Dave


13
Originality / Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« on: January 10, 2024, 12:56:04 AM »
R68GTO, good point. I guess we’ll never know why the change was made.

It’s times like this when I miss input from JohnZ and his experienced working I the Norwood plant!


14
Originality / Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« on: January 09, 2024, 05:16:10 PM »
List updated with a couple more entries of friends' '69 Camaros that live in my area:

10B ('68), std. 327, NW, push in, from KevinW
10D ('68), std. 327, NW, push in, from Dave69x33, original owner, unrestored.
12B ('68), RS Z28, VN, push in, HOT302
01B, X11 SS350, NW, push in, Iowa Jon
01B, SS/RS 350, VN, push in, from x66 714
02B, X33, RS Z28, push in, from Edgemontvllage, original unrestored
02D, X33 Z28, NW, push in, from RikerZ28
02D, X66 L78 SS396 (survivor), NW, bolt in, from Edgemontvillage, Doug Perry's car
03E, X33 non-RS Z28, NW, Legends Certified 2023, push in,from Dave69X33 (friend's car)
04C, model?, plant? push in, from L78 steve
04C, Z11 L48 Pace Car, VN, push in, from 169INDY
04C, Z10, NW, push in, from Dusk Blue Z
05A, SS, VN, bolt in, from KevinW
05A, X33 RS Z28, NW, push in, Dave69x33
05A, X77 Z28, NW, push in, from Iowa Jon
05A, X77 Z28, NW, bolt in, from x77-69z28
05A, X77 Z28, NW, push in, from Dusk Blue Z
05C, Z11 Pace Car, NW, push in, from Dave69x33 (friend's car)
05E, X77 Z28, NW, bolt in from copo
06A, X44, NW bolt in, from copo
08E, X66 SS396, NW, bush in, from x66 714
09C, X77 Z28, NW, push in, from Badshifter
09C. X33 Z28, NW, push in, from john jay 69Z
09D, X44 427 COPO, NW, push in, from R68 GTO (COPO BE axle)
09D, X77 Z28, NW, push in. from Dave69x33 (friend's car)

15
Originality / Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« on: January 09, 2024, 12:51:23 PM »
Lloyd,  I agree and noticed the differences in the chamfered ends on the mounting plate and more rounded nose on the rubber bumper in Doug’s car. Hopefully over time more folks with ‘69 survivors will post photos of their bolt-in center axle bumpers.

I assume the differences in axle bumper design is what we sometimes in a component installed at the factory vs. the service replacement GM part; they don’t alway look identical. A change to the plate or rubber that does not affect the form, fit, or function of the component in the final assembly may have not required an engineering part number change which includes all the clerical work in the GM system, and validation of a new GM supplier/component. It’s also odd GM would make a change to this piece that adds complexity and more assembly work content. You would expect the design to change from bolt-in to push-in. I worked for a GM division for 15 years, Chrysler for 10, and now 14 years back at Allison Transmission, a former GM division. In both the GM and Chrysler plants, lower assembly content and complexity was always the goal. Keep in mind that this change also required additional tote dunnage for the bolts and installation tools along the assembly line. This might be the reason we see the push-in design more commonly used during the ‘69 model run as it was a less complex install. However, the ‘69 Camaro mounting structure was designed for either a push-on or bolt-on style bumper. Over time, the (2) outer frame mounted axle bumpers also got more complex changing from push-in to bolt-in bumpers. So there must have been issues with the push-in bumper design that eventually drove the change to bolt-in bumpers. I did not show it but the 1974 Nova application that used a very similar bolt-in center bumper as the ‘69 Camaro, showed the floor pan and the structure did not include a slot for a push-in.

What is interesting is Doug’s ‘69 SS is the first early car observed so far with the round style bolt-in bumper while most ‘69s in the study use the push-in style.  Could this have been be a slow ramp up production supply of the bolt-in bumper?  Did Norwood/Van Nuys make this a “running change” to pilot test the install of the bolt-in bumper?  This is the reason I am pushing for more input and pictures from survivor ‘69 Camaros.

Kinda crazy so much attention is given to such a small detail…but that a what we do!  Details…details…details…lol!

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