1
Restoration / Re: Bored? Feel like zincing tailpipe clamps?
« on: April 09, 2020, 12:13:32 AM »
Check out Caswell plating: https://www.caswellplating.com/
News:
Welcome to the CRG Discussion Forum!
Classified ads are not allowed on the forum.
Show Posts
This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
Pages: [1]
2
Restoration / Re: What is meant by N44 versus Quick ratio
« on: April 08, 2020, 10:29:25 PM »"Please verify outer arm length by measuring it from spindle centerline. Looking at your photos the arms look like long arms even though they have what should be short arm forging numbers. I haven't looked at steering arm photos for years so maybe I'm wrong but I would not rely 100% on just those forging numbers. There are long arms with "short" forging numbers."I have matched most if not all the part numbers for arms on my page to the factory parts manual so the forging numbers DO match the parts book but I've gotten about two emails, one from a guy who bought arms with those numbers off an ebay seller and when recieved, they were not short arms.
I will verify the measurement sometime in the next few weeks when I get the car out of storage.
Back in 2004, I verified the pitman arm and idler arm lengths but never bothered to verify the outer steering arm lengths because of the following statement from your website which is at the end of the "Steering Arm Part/Forging Numbers" section just prior to the "Pitman Arm" Section:
"Note: Outer steering arms forging numbers ARE the same as the part number."
The only other reference point I have is that steering wheel lock to lock is just over 2 turns.
Other question I would have is how would/could GM/Chevrolet have produced long outer steering arms with the wrong (short outer steering arm) casting/part number?
Richard
The old story of me not getting the correct part for one arm based on forging numbers could have been the Z/28 arm number was misread by me. I did not bring the actual arm into the dealer, I just copied the numbers. By the way, that was a power steering Camaro.
My buddy checked the 67 Camaro manual steering lock to lock. It's 3.5 turns which is pretty fast for a manual steer Camaro. It's an SS350 4 speed no Air Conditioning and drum brakes.
3
Restoration / Re: What is meant by N44 versus Quick ratio
« on: April 07, 2020, 04:48:16 AM »I 've been following along and don't want to muddy the waters but how is the firebird different in that it uses a c shaped pitman arm?Firebird was pretty much the same as Camaro for 67/68 but in 69 it all changed. The center link has the joints, not the idler and pitman. So the Pitman, Idler, center link, are all different. As far as the steering arms, I don't know for sure, they look similar.
How is that? I drove my uncles 69 Trans Am RAIV back in the day and it had extremely quick power steering?
Here's a Firebird steering arm
4
Restoration / Re: What is meant by N44 versus Quick ratio
« on: April 07, 2020, 04:45:28 AM »My '69 RS is nothing special, just a lowly plane jane, 210 hp base V8 Coupe with Powerglide and a 2.73:1 open rear end. Great car to cruise around in and get the heads turning but not a performance ride to say the least.Please verify outer arm length by measuring it from spindle centerline. Looking at your photos the arms look like long arms even though they have what should be short arm forging numbers. I haven't looked at steering arm photos for years so maybe I'm wrong but I would not rely 100% on just those forging numbers. There are long arms with "short" forging numbers.
From Mr. Pozzi's website and other postings on this site:
1969 Variable Ratio Power Steering; RPO N40 with Quick Ratio Steering RPO N44:
• 2.06 turns lock to lock
• Utilized short outer steering arms and long pitman arm
• 16.1:1 on center
• 12.4:1 off center
• 14.3:1 overall over all ratio
OUTER STEERING ARM
Short Arm (Approximate 5.25" length between center of spindle to center of tie rod hole)
• Left Hand part and casting number 3954875
• Right Hand part and casting number 3954876
PITMAN ARM:
The pitman arm used for the fast ratio (RPO N44) steering option is approximately 5.8” long.
IDLER ARM
The 1968-69 models used an idler arm which is approximately 5.25" long.
Back in Feb 2004 when I was restoring the front suspension, I came across a surprise. Previously, on multiple occasions while out driving the car, I had noticed / verified that there is just a little over 2 turns of the steering wheel from lock to lock.
During front suspension disassembly and restoration I verified that the pitman arm is approximately 5.8" long and that I had the SHORT OUTER STEERING ARMS. Refer to the pictures. The first two are the left hand side, the last two are the right hand side.
Previously William posted: "2,161 [1969]Camaros were built with N44 special steering equipment....Perhaps half of N44 cars (1,080) were not Z-28."
Well, my poor ol' ride, for whatever reason, appears to be one of the approximately 1,080 non-Z28 1969 Camaros produced with the N40/N44 combination.
Stay Safe,
Richard
5
Restoration / Re: What is meant by N44 versus Quick ratio
« on: April 07, 2020, 04:12:57 AM »
I think your box casting number is going to be very common for 1969. Probably used by all manual steering gears across GM that use that mounting which is most cars. The stamped number is probably a date code. PS boxes have the date code stamped on the aluminum top cover.
I've wondered about the 69 Z28 special fast ratio steering option. Don't have any good info on it other than what I've read in Magazines. I don't have a 69 Service manual so had to make do with info here and there. I need to look it over again and see if I can improve it. I was trying to come up with what combo of box ratio, pitman arm length and outer steering arm length to create what ratio but the charts I made are just my best guess.
Note the part number of the worm and nut. My guess is that is an older part number as most Camaro parts start with a 7. I think that part was created for an earlier Corvette doing road racing and it fits the Camaro boxes. I just sold a 67 Camaro SS with manual box and it had a very fast box in it. I'm having the new owner see how many turns it is lock to lock but I recall it was around 2.25 to 2.5! It would take some muscle to park it! Many standard manual Camaro boxes are 6 to 7 turns.
The pitman arms were forged with part numbers on them so they broached a large hole for a PS shaft, and a smaller hole for a Manual system. There were long and short pitman arms for both PS and manual but now I don't think you can find a long pitman arm for a manual box unless Rare Parts has one.
The Steering arm part numbers in the parts manual do not always match the forging numbers. Can be a couple of numbers off. I ordered a pair back in 1971 and got the wrong arm by ordering the forging number. One was OK. Arms ending in an odd number are Left had side. Parts ending in an even number are Right Hand side.
67's used the long idler arm. 68/69 used the short idler. I have not seen a long idler arm on a 68 or 69. I think they were around 5.25" long. Replacements by Moog and others are 5.5" long and I think they split the difference between the long and short idler and pitman arm lengths.
I've wondered about the 69 Z28 special fast ratio steering option. Don't have any good info on it other than what I've read in Magazines. I don't have a 69 Service manual so had to make do with info here and there. I need to look it over again and see if I can improve it. I was trying to come up with what combo of box ratio, pitman arm length and outer steering arm length to create what ratio but the charts I made are just my best guess.
Note the part number of the worm and nut. My guess is that is an older part number as most Camaro parts start with a 7. I think that part was created for an earlier Corvette doing road racing and it fits the Camaro boxes. I just sold a 67 Camaro SS with manual box and it had a very fast box in it. I'm having the new owner see how many turns it is lock to lock but I recall it was around 2.25 to 2.5! It would take some muscle to park it! Many standard manual Camaro boxes are 6 to 7 turns.
The pitman arms were forged with part numbers on them so they broached a large hole for a PS shaft, and a smaller hole for a Manual system. There were long and short pitman arms for both PS and manual but now I don't think you can find a long pitman arm for a manual box unless Rare Parts has one.
The Steering arm part numbers in the parts manual do not always match the forging numbers. Can be a couple of numbers off. I ordered a pair back in 1971 and got the wrong arm by ordering the forging number. One was OK. Arms ending in an odd number are Left had side. Parts ending in an even number are Right Hand side.
67's used the long idler arm. 68/69 used the short idler. I have not seen a long idler arm on a 68 or 69. I think they were around 5.25" long. Replacements by Moog and others are 5.5" long and I think they split the difference between the long and short idler and pitman arm lengths.
6
Restoration / Re: What is meant by N44 versus Quick ratio
« on: April 07, 2020, 12:01:29 AM »
I just found this thread and will read it all before making any comments. My web page is an attempt to put down what I knew at the time, hoping somone would add more info and make it more correct.
7
Restoration / Re: 1967 Rally Sport headlight motor repair help!
« on: December 22, 2016, 07:38:00 AM »
I may be able to supply a drawing or some shafts.
8
Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Photo Gallery for A/Sedan and A-B/Production cars
« on: April 17, 2012, 03:14:48 PM »
Hi guys!
Our 69 was raced by Geoff Knight, started out autocrossing in the late 60's then road raced with Cal Club (Southern California) & SCCA, it ran in a few Trans-Am races in the 78/79 seasons. It ran the last TA race held at Riverside Raceway just before it closed.
David
Our 69 was raced by Geoff Knight, started out autocrossing in the late 60's then road raced with Cal Club (Southern California) & SCCA, it ran in a few Trans-Am races in the 78/79 seasons. It ran the last TA race held at Riverside Raceway just before it closed.
David
9
General Discussion / Re: pink rods
« on: March 08, 2011, 04:04:47 PM »
The Corvette LT1 350's used the pink rods too as well as the 70 & up Special High Performance 350's. No Babbit dipped small ends though. magazines of the day used to say these rods were made with "fresh" forging dies & tooling plus shot peening. I have a couple of sets, & they have more than a small dab of paint on them.
10
Trans-Am Camaros / Re: Intent of the 1st-Gen Trans-Am Camaro Forum
« on: March 08, 2011, 03:46:33 PM »
Thanks for setting up this forum section.
David
David
11
General Discussion / Re: Members from old forum version please post here
« on: June 24, 2007, 06:10:02 AM »
I was a member of the old forum.
My user name was either davidpozzi, or David Pozzi. I think it was the first one.
My user name was either davidpozzi, or David Pozzi. I think it was the first one.
12
Originality / Re: 69 X77 code Camaro Many fact questions.
« on: February 21, 2006, 06:12:22 AM »
Kurt,
Thanks, Back when these cars were new, I read that when you ordered Power Steering on a Z/28, there was not only the N44 but a "special fast" N44. Now years later I have a couple of pages from the GM parts book and info gathered from the forums that cannot confirm any such thing. There was a fast ratio manual steering supposedly only for the Z/28, but I have a 67 SS350 that has the same fast steering, it's not a Z/28 - only option, apparently. The lock to lock for this 67 is just over 2.25 turns.
Thanks, Back when these cars were new, I read that when you ordered Power Steering on a Z/28, there was not only the N44 but a "special fast" N44. Now years later I have a couple of pages from the GM parts book and info gathered from the forums that cannot confirm any such thing. There was a fast ratio manual steering supposedly only for the Z/28, but I have a 67 SS350 that has the same fast steering, it's not a Z/28 - only option, apparently. The lock to lock for this 67 is just over 2.25 turns.
13
Originality / Re: 69 X77 code Camaro Many fact questions.
« on: February 19, 2006, 07:13:18 PM »
William,
There was a special manual box that was very fast. I have a 67 SS350 with manual steering, long pitman, shortest outer arms, it has just over 2.25 turns lock to lock.!
I've read that the Z/28 when ordered with N40/ N44 fast Power steering either came with steering that was even faster, or optional "Special fast" steering.
Below is what was available for 1969 N40/N44 Camaros. What might be missing is, that regular camaros got "Standard" non-variable PS probably 17 to 1, then ratio 1 was the regular N40/N44, number 2 was a Z/28 ONLY option, - the SPECIAL FAST ratio. Does this sound right? I think GM only used variable ratio steering boxes as optional equipment, not standard equipment.
1. REGULAR VARIABLE POWER STEERING 1969, N40-N44,1969-16.1:1 on center, 12.4:1 off center, 15.5:1 overall
2. N44 FAST VARIABLE RATIO POWER STEERING N40-N44, 1969 16.1:1 on center, 12.4:1 off center, 14.3:1 overall (Z/28 only?)
There was a special manual box that was very fast. I have a 67 SS350 with manual steering, long pitman, shortest outer arms, it has just over 2.25 turns lock to lock.!
I've read that the Z/28 when ordered with N40/ N44 fast Power steering either came with steering that was even faster, or optional "Special fast" steering.
Below is what was available for 1969 N40/N44 Camaros. What might be missing is, that regular camaros got "Standard" non-variable PS probably 17 to 1, then ratio 1 was the regular N40/N44, number 2 was a Z/28 ONLY option, - the SPECIAL FAST ratio. Does this sound right? I think GM only used variable ratio steering boxes as optional equipment, not standard equipment.
1. REGULAR VARIABLE POWER STEERING 1969, N40-N44,1969-16.1:1 on center, 12.4:1 off center, 15.5:1 overall
2. N44 FAST VARIABLE RATIO POWER STEERING N40-N44, 1969 16.1:1 on center, 12.4:1 off center, 14.3:1 overall (Z/28 only?)
14
Originality / Re: 69 X77 code Camaro Many fact questions.
« on: February 19, 2006, 08:56:39 AM »Learn something new every day. Sorry for my wrong information. A whole lot of people out there believe the steering gears were different for quick ratio, that was including myself, what You say makes sense, I will have to crawl under mine to check it out. My steering whell turns 2 and barely over an eighth turns lock to lock. Although I hadn't went as far as checking my spindles evrything lookes fine but I haven.t delved into looking close Yet. Again I apologize for my previous statements
John,
Does this mean the Z/28's had steering knuckle arms shorter than all other Camaros?
Can you verify that Z/28's had faster power steering ratios than all other Camaros?
I have heard about a Z/28 only "Special Fast" steering that was faster than the normal Camaro N44 steering. I'm looking for doccumentation.
Pages: [1]