CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: NoYenko on August 12, 2012, 05:56:38 PM

Title: Engine painting poll
Post by: NoYenko on August 12, 2012, 05:56:38 PM
I was at a car show with my 70 chevelle and someone commented on my by pass should not be painted. That didn't really bother me but it brought up a sore point I have had with judging in the past. Twice I lost points because I was told the by pass hose should not be painted. One of the judges said I had too much paint on my exhaust manifolds, but also told me my original 772 fan blade was made in 1972 so I just ignored his opinions. I worked on these cars when they were fairly new and worked on many original corvettes and distinctly remember the by pass hoses on CAST IRON manifold cars were fully painted. The paint did not adhere to the rubber hose so after 40 years only the clamps and part of the hose has paint remaining on it. Aluminum intakes had a mask that also covered part of the by pass hose but that's a different animal. Last night I got view an Original owner 1966 427 Vette that is one of the most untouched cars I have seen in many years. Her car shows paint on both ends of the hose.This is a NCRS awarded car. The B&W photo is from Chevrolet archives and clearly shows the hose painted. Another archive from VN shows the how BB exhaust manifolds were painted. I will also post how I painted my engine and would like to get comments, positive or not, if you feel that I did it correctly. This engine has not run in 18 years so more paint will probably flake off after I start it.
Thanks for your time. George.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: NoYenko on August 12, 2012, 05:57:58 PM
Archive photos
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: NoYenko on August 12, 2012, 06:02:04 PM
Pictures off chevelle site, 2nd picture is LS6, 3rd picture is mine
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: NoYenko on August 12, 2012, 06:04:33 PM
Complete engine
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: Mike S on August 12, 2012, 07:29:18 PM
 It's hard to argue a point that is very subjective with someone who may not be entirely educated in the process back then. Looking back at that time it was dependant on the person applying the paint to how far they wanted to go with coverage. Besides the bypass hose that was on the block when painted, the exhaust manifolds and bell housings (manual cars) and distributor clamp coverage were entirely up to the painter.
  I have my entire bypass hose painted and never got docked points when I showed my car many years ago. I had a discussion with a person just last week about the Camaro build process and I told him the early Camaros' front end sheet metal was painted by Chevy and the main body by Fisher. He still doesn't believe me that was how it was done  :(

Seeing the archice picture I may print that out just in case I encounter that situation like yours.

Mike
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: JohnZ on August 13, 2012, 05:52:11 PM
Your photos look fine to me. Iron-intake big-blocks didn't get any masking, and the bypass hose was pretty much completely painted; aluminum-intake big-blocks did get a mask, and their bypass hoses will show somewhat less paint than on an iron-intake car. Tonawanda painted the big-block engine with the exhaust manifolds in place, and they had lots of paint, as shown by the photo on the Camaro assembly line. Flint V-8 (small-blocks), on the other hand, installed the exhaust manifolds AFTER engine painting starting in 1965, so post-'64 Flint-built small-block exhaust manifolds won't show any paint.

Have your buddy read my "1st Generation Camaro Assembly Process" report if he doesn't believe how the body and sheet metal were painted; the Fisher Body/Car Division assembly plants painted the body and front sheet metal in different plants for 50 years.  :)

http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: mickeystoys69RSSS on August 13, 2012, 06:28:08 PM
Interesting I though all of the manifolds were cast iron color. I will have to remember that if I ever paint mine.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: NoYenko on August 13, 2012, 10:22:36 PM
Guys, thanks for the input. John I really appreciate your comments, that means allot coming from someone who oversaw or implemented operations like these at the plant. We are lucky to have you on board. George.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: mickeystoys69RSSS on August 13, 2012, 11:58:45 PM
What is interesting is that in Jerry's book appendix E component color and plating chart shows the exhause manifolds as natural cast iron finish. Is painting them strictly for big block applications? I have had several 67-72 chevy trucks and always coated the exhaust mainfolds the cast iron gray color. This is the first time I have seen them painted orange. 
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: JohnZ on August 14, 2012, 02:31:28 PM
What is interesting is that in Jerry's book appendix E component color and plating chart shows the exhause manifolds as natural cast iron finish. Is painting them strictly for big block applications? I have had several 67-72 chevy trucks and always coated the exhaust mainfolds the cast iron gray color. This is the first time I have seen them painted orange. 

Small-block exhaust manifolds were natural unpainted cast iron. Big-block exhaust manifolds were painted on the engine, but most of it burned off in the first hour of operation (the resulting smoke was a problem, so Tonawanda changed their process at some point in the 70's and installed the big-block exhaust manifolds AFTER engine painting).
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: mickeystoys69RSSS on August 14, 2012, 03:50:46 PM
So them would painting the manifolds with a Vht orange or ceramic powder coat so the color does not burn off be considered correct? I think I will just leave mine alone oxidized for now.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: william on August 14, 2012, 09:35:12 PM
This is a photo of an L48 engine in a '69 Nova SS, taken at the dealership in 1969. Must have been a Tonawanda engine as they painted with manifolds attached. Tonawanda did not build 302s.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt65/JJZ109/69L48engine.jpg)
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: NoYenko on August 15, 2012, 12:07:35 PM
William nice picture. I think I have some old french locks off a small block manifold that have orange paint on them. Mickey I had my manifolds ceramic coated in a dark cast iron color then painted them orange. I  hope that as the paint burns off it will show dark iron color instead of rust. The picture below is from a 27 mile LS6 and you can see how quickly the paint burned off. Credit for taking the photo goes to (704EVER2008's). George.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: mickeystoys69RSSS on August 15, 2012, 05:49:52 PM
William nice picture. I think I have some old french locks off a small block manifold that have orange paint on them. Mickey I had my manifolds ceramic coated in a dark cast iron color then painted them orange. I  hope that as the paint burns off it will show dark iron color instead of rust. The picture below is from a 27 mile LS6 and you can see how quickly the paint burned off. Credit for taking the photo goes to (704EVER2008's). George.

George that is a good idea with the coating and paint. It will be interesting to see how well it will last.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: 68camaroz28 on August 16, 2012, 12:56:52 AM
Also notice the engine lift brackets being natural and not painted chevy orange.
Nice pic George to display.......
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: william on August 16, 2012, 01:17:35 AM
Also notice the engine lift brackets being natural and not painted chevy orange.
Nice pic George to display.......

They probably aren't natural. Some of the bracketry on aluminum intake engines was brush painted.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: 69Z28-RS on August 16, 2012, 07:13:06 PM
JohnZ wrote:
"Have your buddy read my "1st Generation Camaro Assembly Process" report if he doesn't believe how the body and sheet metal were painted; the Fisher Body/Car Division assembly plants painted the body and front sheet metal in different plants for 50 years.  "

Good example and case in point:   I own 55 and '57 Nomads, both assembled in the Atlanta, GA assembly plant.   but ALL Nomad bodies were build in Cleveland ('55 thru '57 at least).   The Cleveland fisher body plant delivered the bodies (from firewalll back) painted and complete with interior in place,  in Atlanta (and other assembly plants as far away as LA), the bodies were placed on the chassis along with engines and drivetrain, front sheet metal etc..  so in these (and lots of cases) the front clips were painted not only in different (adjacent plants) but also in different STATES with a train ride in between...  :)

Gary / 69Z28-RS
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: mickeystoys69RSSS on August 18, 2012, 03:06:24 PM
George,
Can you take a photo of your front engine lift hook. I saw yours in this photo and noticed it is angled like mine and not rounded. The person the did the inspection on my car said this was not the correct lift. But, knowing our two cars were built at the same plant in the same week and now seeing yours I am think that it is factory intstalled even though it is not the rounded lift hook.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: NoYenko on August 19, 2012, 05:29:21 PM
Mickey, The engine from my car was taken apart 18 years ago by previous owner. He saved & bagged everything, but I got 2 lift brackets in with the parts. I saw the squared top bracket in Jerry's book and decided to use that one. Does not make it correct though. Maybe these are left over 1968 brackets because I have seen them on 68 396's.
Here are pictures of both of mine.  George.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: mickeystoys69RSSS on August 19, 2012, 08:09:05 PM
Thanks George. The top pic is the bracket that is on my car.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: copo on August 19, 2012, 09:51:17 PM
The bracket in the bottom photo with the rounded corners is the correct bracket for 68-69 B/B. The rounded bracket in the above photo is correct for 70 B/B because the bracket was drilled for a return spring. The 68-69 B/B bracket did not have hole drill in it for return spring.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: JohnZ on August 20, 2012, 03:14:13 PM
<<The bracket in the bottom photo with the rounded corners is the correct bracket for 68-69 B/B. The rounded bracket in the above photo is correct for 70 B/B because the bracket was drilled for a return spring. The 68-69 B/B bracket did not have hole drill in it for return spring.>>

??? Those two statements appear to conflict with each other.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: mickeystoys69RSSS on August 21, 2012, 12:23:27 AM
Yes I was a little confused about that myself. Can you please clarify?
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: NoYenko on August 21, 2012, 01:39:31 AM
The bracket in the bottom photo with the rounded corners is the correct bracket for 68-69 B/B. The rounded bracket in the above photo is correct for 70 B/B because the bracket was drilled for a return spring. The 68-69 B/B bracket did not have hole drill in it for return spring.
The rounded bracket with the small hole in I do not think was for throttle return spring because the hole is on the front of the bracket away from the carb. Here is a picture of the rounded bracket. It has a part number 3969829 stamped on it but the 8 is very faint, could be a 3. This picture is again from the 1970 454 LS6. George.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: NoYenko on November 18, 2018, 02:27:00 AM
Sorry to drag up an old post, but I felt this was the correct place to post these pictures.
I just came back from another fabulous MCACN show, and was drawn in by a totally original 489 mile 1972 Corvette. One of the things I wondered about was how the bypass hose was painted.
It is a cast iron intake manifold and the hose was entirely covered in paint. Remembered this post and wanted to share. George
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: BULLITT65 on November 18, 2018, 06:07:21 AM
good pics. Definitely a show I want to attend.
Any other unrestored low mile Camaros worth mentioning?
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: bcmiller on November 18, 2018, 12:53:45 PM
Thanks George. Yes the bypass hose on big blocks was painted originally. Don’t let anybody tell you different. :)

There were/are some CRG guys around at the show.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: cook_dw on November 18, 2018, 11:22:57 PM
(http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11414.0;attach=14255;image)
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: bcmiller on November 19, 2018, 12:35:01 AM
What’s the date of the pic Darrell? That’s important. We know practices changed in the 70s.

At least on big blocks that had painted valve covers (Corvette, Full Size) and also had cast iron intakes, it’s pretty much accepted that the hoses were NORMALLY painted. Can we say with 100 percent certainty - for EVERY engine in that category - that they were always that way? Probably not. There could have been times when different practices were tried and abandoned (maybe a comparison of material cost saved versus labor time added). Who knows? Nobody. Because one person was not there 24/7 to monitor.

Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: 68camaroz28 on November 23, 2018, 03:08:58 AM
The first I saw the old engine painting picture was when I thought JohnZ posted but know I saved it. LOL Not sure how many CRG members were at MCACN but I talked to a few like George here.
George, great talking to you and how about some of those barn finds displayed? I checked that Corvette out and what a car but the hood was not up when I was checking it out. Boy could that car do well in NCRS events and thanks for posting the engine picture as that is being saved I'm sure by a lot of us.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: firstgenaddict on December 31, 2018, 08:04:38 AM
Here is Dave Beem's old 4300 mile LS6 April Built -Arlington TX
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: cook_dw on December 16, 2019, 05:20:41 PM
Bringing up an old topic.  Was the positive batt cable clip from the starter up to batt was it installed before or after engine paint?

Rick's Camaro photo.

(https://www.rickscamaros.com/assets/rfg/images/size/600x/sku/RC-331.jpg)
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: Petes L48 on December 16, 2019, 07:33:52 PM
Looking at a 67 AIM UPC 12 Sheet A5.5 for V-8 engine it indicates "Clips part of engine" in the illustration.  Not sure if the same for all three years though.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: cook_dw on December 16, 2019, 08:07:01 PM
Thanks.  Yes I am aware of that but I wanted to make sure if it was installed before or after paint. 
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: x66 714 on December 16, 2019, 09:27:29 PM
That clip & if it has automatic, the cooler line clip was also on the pan rail before being painted...Joe
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: cook_dw on December 17, 2019, 02:09:58 AM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: cook_dw on December 17, 2019, 01:01:29 PM
Just to be clear I would like to know for all 67-9 if this is the same.  I assume Joe yours is a 69 that you seen that on?  Just making sure there wasn't some weird anomaly during the 3 years.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: x66 714 on December 17, 2019, 02:17:34 PM
I just had to figure this out for myself on my 69. I used information provided in the AIM book. You could see drawings on those items & there was verbage that went with them. Never any part number so on would come to the conclusion that these parts were on the engine when it was built at the engine plant. My engine code is CJG which was stamped at the engine plant. I think it would've also been written on the side of the block to tell the builders what components made up that build. CJG was 396(400) w/th400. Same with the battery cable clip. Does that make sense? I did find other like pieces from other engines I've taken apart. They didn't have paint on the backsides. Other years could be different....Joe
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 17, 2019, 03:07:41 PM
Bringing up an old topic.  Was the positive batt cable clip from the starter up to batt was it installed before or after engine paint?


Here's a photo of Skip L's 22K mile 09D Norwood '69 Z/28 survivor showing the clips painted:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49232960833_06fd657d1c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2i1xN1i) (https://flic.kr/p/2i1xN1i)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: cook_dw on December 17, 2019, 03:18:50 PM
Thanks Lloyd.  I just wanna make sure 7 is the same (68 is).  Just want to verify and note it in my info.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: x66 714 on December 17, 2019, 03:39:10 PM
For 1967 look at AIM UPC12, A5.5....Joe
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: cook_dw on December 17, 2019, 03:43:25 PM
OMG..  I realize that...  I have seen that as I stated previously..  I just want factual data to make sure it was painted or installed after paint.  For 67 just to verify it is the same as 68/9.  I don't wanna assume anything.  I don't 100% trust the AIM on every single thing.
Title: Re: Engine painting poll
Post by: maroman on December 18, 2019, 03:02:35 AM
I thought I had a picture saved but naturally can't find it. It has been posted on the HAMB several times in a Chevrolet factory of BB engine ready to be installed. The complete exhaust manifolds are painted.