CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Maintenance => Topic started by: mickeystoys69RSSS on July 04, 2012, 01:43:26 PM
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Has anyone used an Octane boost additave to their fuel tank and is it safe to use on a first gen big block? I pull a bonehead move and put the worng octange gas when I went to fill up not thinking about the higher comrpession engine needing a higher octane. At first I thought I would need to drain the tank but I thought if the octance boost will work until I refill the tank with premium next time.
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Mickey I use octane boost because in Canada the highest I can find is 94 octane (Chevron), for me it does make a difference. Some people would argue it is likely more of a placebo than an actual cure.
This is what I use:
http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/104_plus/default.aspx
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Before you waste your money on that crap, read THIS (http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7147.0).
Ed
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How many gallons of lower octane did you put in? How many gallons of higher octane were already in the tank? Read Kurt's post in the thread that Ed posted, then you can decide how much you've lowered the octane in your tank. Worst case, you might just need to siphon out a five gallon can full and put in five of high test.
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Back in the 70's during my racing years I asked Fred Egloff from (Fred's Trick Carbs) what he thought of octane booster. He said it had a bad habit of swelling the gaskets in the carbs. If you know Fred you would pretty much take his word for it, I know I never asked about octane booster again. Hope this helps, RonM.
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Before you waste your money on that crap, read THIS (http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7147.0).
Ed
Gees Ed what do you really think... ;D
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LOL!
Sonny, there are SOOOOO many additives out on the market today and not ONE of them does any good. Walk into your local auto parts store and look at the chemical isle and you'll see oil additives, power steering additives, fuel additives, everything from seal expanders to stuff you pour into your carbutetor to "renew" your engine! It's ALL crap and just another way for corporations to separate you from your money. This junk generates billions for the manufacturers so why should they stop?!
Fuel additives are the worse in my opinion. They toute "cleaners" you add to the gas tank to clean fuel injectors and show these great pictures of "dirty" injectors and then "clean" injectors after using their product. What a load. Modern formulated fuel already has additives that clean the system. No reason to add anything else, but how many people do you know that pour a 12 dollar pint of that junk in at every fillup!!
Spark plugs are another irritant for me. Dual electrodes, quad electrodes... They perfom NO BETTER than the standard single electrode spark plugs. Electricity takes the path of least resistance and that means the spark jump from the center electrode to the ground electrode will be across ONE, not four! It's like razor blades. 3, 4, 5, 6 blades... when will it end??? I'm sure some day we'll see 24 electrode spark plugs and 24 blaze razors!!!
I'll step of my soapbox now, but hopefully I've saved someone out there a little $$$
Ed
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Don’t stop the soapbox on our account (many similarities on old vs. new). I’ve been using the 2- blade disposable shavers for as long as I can remember. But dad doesn’t know what the heck he’s doing. That’s why my youngest son has mom buy him the 6- blade BB. He%#$, I didn’t even know he had facial hair (one of those can buy me a years supply).
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I put in about 10 gal of 87 on an empty tank. I am not trying to clean the engine, but trying to stop the auto detonation or knock when I turn the key off. I am just hoping not to have to drop or drain the tank.
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What's the highest octane rating you can get in your area? If you add 8 gallons of 93, you'll be around 89.666. That might be enough, depending on your compression ratio. You may also have to retard the timing a little until you've had a chance to go through that tank. If you can get higher premium, go for that.
Ed
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Here is a link using Wayback machine,not sure if you guys can still buy this stuff or not over there(company gone belly up?web page no longer works).
I have a couple of boxes left and still use this stuff sparingly.If you are looking to get your octane level up this this is the stuff :)
This stuff has real lead in it and if you put enough in you'll be blowing a gray pipe in no time.
There is a guy out here in OZ who can make this and is currently fighting his way through legislation so he can produce and sell it out here.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070811180849/http://kemcooil.com/product_info.php?pId=61
Edit:Just done a search and it would appear that you can still get this gear over there :D Just search out Octane Supreme 130
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If you can get higher premium, go for that.
Ed
Does anyone sell Cam2 near you?
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Moroso used to make a good additive that I used in the 80's- nasty stuff though, it was had a carcinogen in it, but it did make a big difference in the car I drag raced back then. Don't think you can get it any more though. Personally I would drain/siphone the low octane gas out and put some 91 octane in it, surely that is available around you somewhere?
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He's in FL. Can't be hard top find a pump with high octane. A search will find a Sunoco with Cam2.
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I put in about 10 gal of 87 on an empty tank. I am not trying to clean the engine, but trying to stop the auto detonation or knock when I turn the key off. I am just hoping not to have to drop or drain the tank.
He's in FL. Can't be hard top find a pump with high octane. A search will find a Sunoco with Cam2.
No need to drop the tank, just listen to what Ed and Sauron327 are saying. The Sunoco Race Fuel site list dozens of places where you can buy high octane in Florida. And that way you don't have to drain the whole tank either.
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Here's the Sunoco site, just enter your zip
http://racegas.com/fuelfinder
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If you have a local airport nearby just go buy some aviation fuel. Our local airport has a pump open 24-7.
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My understanding is that aviation fuel will stop detonation because of its octane level, but doesn't have the same quick burn characteristics as race fuel. Aircraft engines run at a relatively constant speed at lower rpm, unlike race engines that run in a wide dynamic range. The bottom line is I don't believe you will get the same performance out of AV fuel versus race fuels.
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My understanding is that aviation fuel will stop detonation because of its octane level, but doesn't have the same quick burn characteristics as race fuel. Aircraft engines run at a relatively constant speed at lower rpm, unlike race engines that run in a wide dynamic range. The bottom line is I don't believe you will get the same performance out of AV fuel versus race fuels.
All I know is that my engine builder uses it to dyno all high compression engines he builds including mine. He got 447HP out of my stock 70 L78.
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You have to be very careful with Av-Gas. There are properties that motor vehicles need that are not in that fuel. It is not recommended for regular use.
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You have to be very careful with Av-Gas. There are properties that motor vehicles need that are not in that fuel. It is not recommended for regular use.
Such as?
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Detergents, lower burn rate, lower lead level.
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AvGas is pretty much the same complex blend of hydrocarbons as race fuel but has it's octane calculated differently.
100/130 for example is a take-off and cruise octane number which doesn't compare side by side to Motor or Research octane numbers, but the lower is closer.
The Reid Vapor Pressures are different also because of the altitude (atmospheric pressure) that it needs to vaporize at. So, don't buy Avgas in winter for use in summer and vice-versa.
In most cases, you won't need to use AvGas or Race fuel at 100% anyway..
For years I easily got away with a mix of 66% 92(R+M)/2 with 33% 100/130 AvGas in my 12:1 BBC with no adverse effects what so ever and with ~40° total.. My engine cranks 225psi during compression tests and also has a knock sensor.
When it was dynoed (engine dyno) it made just slightly more power on the AvGas that I supplied as opposed to the VP fuel the dyno operator supplied. We made a few jet changes as well and the AVGas results were better. OK, splitting hairs, but still better. That has nothing to do with octane though or which fuel is "better". That's probably just a case of the particular blend of AvGas I supplied had a higher specific energy in a given volume compared to the VP and showed that the AvGas was still quite capable of producing power in a large bore automotive V8 engine, like the VP.
Basically, what I am saying is AvGas is fine, but don't go by it's octane numbers and use it in the same months that you buy it..
Anyway, a better option is water injection. I have a Snow N/A kit and with 92 octane I am still get detonation free with 38° total advance with 12:1 and the same ~260° solid roller. You can add 50% methanol to the water if you want for even more resistance and a couple of ponies.. I am yet to try it. Water is cheap and easy. ;)
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I have used Torco in my supercharged 2010 SS and it does the trick. There are times when I can not find 93 Octane gas and I MUST run additive or risk engine damage. No downside that I can tell. I keep a can in the trunk for road trips. You can buy it direct or from Amazon. I think buying direct is cheaper on the freight.
-Mark.
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Thank you all for the replies. Lots of good ideas that I never would have thought of. I added a can of Lucas brand octante boost and filled the remainder of the tank with about 8 gal of 92 premium octane. That mix appears to solved the problem. I drove the car to a local cruise in and had no problem with auto det. after turning off the ignition.
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I realize I'm adding a remark to a very old posting topic but, for continuity's sake, I'll go ahead with it.
I've had very good luck with a product called ACES IV from BND Automotive. They've been in business now (as of 2020) for about 20 years. Brian Schubert, the "B" in "BND" can be contacted on ph.: 440-821-9040. Their ACES IV product has been thoroughly dyno tested and vetted by none other than David Vizard. Fuel treatment is 1 oz. per 6 gallons. A quart/liter jug treats ~200 gallons and is currently $90 +shipping from Ohio. Comes in gallon and larger sizes as well.
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I have been running Sunoco 110 @ $9.89 a gallon but switched to 100LL aviation - which is $4.59 a gal. I have found 55 gal drums for as low as $175 which is just over $3.00 per gal.
The reid VP of sunoco 110 is LOW around 5. most other race fuels are around 7 and street fuels around 8-10 from what I have read.
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As a follow up I was looking for the Reid vapor Pressure of 100LL (5.5 up to 7) same range as any 110 and ran across a 1986 EPA paper on autogas and avgas along with a table of avgas auto gas mixtures and the corresponding reid vapor pressure numbers - along with octane numbers etc.
PAGE 28 SPECIFICALLY has the table with the figures.
https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/ct86-21.pdf
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Do you run any oil additive (Marvel Mystery Oil) to your avgas? I personally use Renegade Racing Fuel - Pro 110, 112, 114 & 116 and they are leaded.
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No but 100LL has lead, about half as much as SUNOCO 110.
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I used to hear that one could add 'moth balls' to your fuel to increase octane; I still have a bag of them in the top of my old tool box.. (My nose reminds me every time I open that tool box).. :)
Another and very good method for *real* octane booster for unleaded fuel is to add 'real lead'...
It was available from several sources including...
http://www.wildbillscorvette.com/OctaneSupreme01a.htm
http://www.jackpodellfuelinjections.com/
I haven't purchased any of this in quite a while, but it's probably still available.. Just be careful when you are adding it to your fuel tank...