CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Mild Modifications => Topic started by: randfr on June 24, 2012, 12:31:43 PM

Title: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: randfr on June 24, 2012, 12:31:43 PM
I'm (still) restoring my 1967 RS Camaro.  I've had the car since 1979, maybe the second or third owner (something else to research).  As a college punk I thought that "old" 327 original engine could do with an upgrade so I swapped the engine out and chucked the original block.  Those short-sighted college punks...

Recently I bought a buddy's newly machined L79 327 from his 1968 Corvette (he wasn't able to complete his own project).  I figured it was as close as I'd get to having a 327 back in the car.

I'm building the motor back to stock but not sure about how "swappable" the miscellaneous Corvette parts will be.  I don't have the headers or the oil pan yet, so was wondering if those items will be usable in the Camaro.  Alternators/starters all the same?  It will not be a concourse car, but I'd like to stick to "original" or "original looking" parts as much as possible.

Any other tips or pointers for this swap?  I'm at the ground floor on the engine build so entertaining all thoughts.  Rebuild the Rochester?  HEI or install pertronix upgrade in the distributor (if I find it)?

thanks
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: william on June 25, 2012, 01:14:09 PM
I believe Corvettes used a 5 quart oil pan which will not fit a Camaro. Exhaust manifolds are also not interchangeable. The starter is determined by flywheel - 10.3" or 11".

Everything esle should be fine.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: hotrod68 on September 14, 2012, 03:34:09 AM
Personally--I'd go with the Pertronix--with an HEI you may have to dent the firewall to get the cap to clear, and  that huge HEI doesn't look anywhere near stock. I'd also use a 600 Holley carburetor on an Edelbrock Performer manifold for better driveability and performance. If you're sticking with the stock Q-Jet manifold, a Holley Spread-Bore carburetor will beat that Quadrajunk every time and is well worth the money in my opinion. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: BlackoutSteve on September 14, 2012, 10:29:50 AM
I think 68 & earlier heads don't have accesory bolt holes..
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: JohnZ on September 14, 2012, 04:41:11 PM

I'm building the motor back to stock but not sure about how "swappable" the miscellaneous Corvette parts will be.

The '67 and '68 327 blocks are functionally the same and are dimensionally identical - anything that bolted up to the '67 block will bolt up fine on the '68 block, but you'll need the Camaro oil pan and exhaust manifolds. Cylinder heads with accessory bolt holes didn't show up until 1969.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: randfr on October 09, 2012, 01:59:24 AM
I believe Corvettes used a 5 quart oil pan which will not fit a Camaro. Exhaust manifolds are also not interchangeable. The starter is determined by flywheel - 10.3" or 11".

Everything esle should be fine.

william (and others on this thread)

thanks for the tips.  the corvette oil pan was indeed too big and i kept the original headers to assist with the mounts for the A/C and alternator.

i'm at the point of buying a starter.  you mentioned that starter depended on the flywheel/flexplate size.  guess i now have to ask, how do i know what size flexplate to buy?

the engine i took out of the car (not original) was hooked up to the powerglide transmission (original) and the flexplate (not sure if original or not) looks to be a smidge under 13 inches.  the new engine (327/350hp) was hooked up to a 4 speed, so i do not have that flywheel.

thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: Everett#2390 on October 09, 2012, 05:21:38 PM
Starter with the bolts in line will take a 153 tooth flexplate/flywheel - small.
Starter with staggered bolts will take a 168 tooth flexplate/flywheel - large.
Don't forget to install the starter front brace, it will save the nose from breaking.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: MyRed67 on November 06, 2012, 07:41:20 AM
   If you're sticking with  "original" look I'd stay with the L-79 Intake Manifold.  Again, if you're going with the "original"  look, the L-79 Heads without any accessory bolt holes would be correct and with stock brackets not needed. And as stated above, I went with a Pertronix kit in my stock Distributor on my 327 in my '67.  Should be an easy swap.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: firstgenaddict on May 06, 2014, 11:51:47 PM
A L79 Camaro geared right with a 4 spd would have taken more races than it would have lost...L79 is one option I always thought they should have offered in the Camaro, I always guessed it would have competed with the SS 350 sales too heavily.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 07, 2014, 02:44:22 AM
One of my best friends in 1968-70 (I was in the USAF) owned a '68 Chevelle with the L79 / 4 speed.   It was rated 327 ci/325 hp in the Chevelle..  We beat MANY SS396 chevelles with that car...  I loved it...   327 ci engine was one of my favorite of all the Chevy engines, with it's great compromise between revvable HP, and drivability torque.   If that engine had been offered in the Camaro, why would they have needed the 350???   The 350/300 would have been a step down..
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: ko-lek-tor on May 07, 2014, 02:48:41 AM
One of my best friends in 1968-70 (I was in the USAF) owned a '68 Chevelle with the L79 / 4 speed.   It was rated 327 ci/325 hp in the Chevelle..  We beat MANY SS396 chevelles with that car...  I loved it...   327 ci engine was one of my favorite of all the Chevy engines, with it's great compromise between revvable HP, and drivability torque.   If that engine had been offered in the Camaro, why would they have needed the 350???   The 350/300 would have been a step down..
X2 those L79's were one mean and potent combinations that made gobs of power giving the Small Block a reputation as a fierce beast.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: z28z11 on May 07, 2014, 03:46:34 AM
If your L79 was rebuilt with the stock spec L79 camshaft, you'll find it works very well with an automatic or standard transmissions. Not too radical an overlap, draws good vacuum so power brakes function correctly, won't load up at idle like more radical cams do. It actually works very well in 350's, much better than the stock 300 horse cams. I love the idle quality, plus the power.

Don't get me wrong - my 302 solid lifter is still my favorite, but the L79 hydraulic runs a good second place.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: Kelley W King on May 08, 2014, 03:19:04 PM
If you want to look stock, keep in mind the 68 had pcv valve in the valve cover, 67,s did not. It is not just a valve cover thing it is a totally different system.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: randfr on May 08, 2014, 07:27:31 PM
If you want to look stock, keep in mind the 68 had pcv valve in the valve cover, 67,s did not. It is not just a valve cover thing it is a totally different system.

I'll have to take a look at the valve covers I bought.  I remember it being more difficult than I expected to track down ones that at least looked the same.  It has been a while since the motor was put together and left in storage.

When you talk about the PCV valve in the cover, you mean there is a hole in the cover for a line to go to a PCV valve, or the actual PCV valve is in the valve cover?

I can't recall if I bought ones that looked the same or were actually working reproductions of the 1968 valve covers.  How would I tell the difference next time I'm looking at it?
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: Kelley W King on May 08, 2014, 08:44:29 PM
67 and older engines were vented from the oil filler and a canister in the lifter valley which led to a hole near the distributer. In 68 this canister and the hole went away. Ventilation was done with a hole in each valve cover, one to let air in and the other to draw out crankcase air. So when you look at a 67 engine there are no holes in the valve covers and 68,s had one in each. these are two different systems. The deal is if you want it look like a 67 you will need a 67 or older block. If you want it to look that correct.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: randfr on May 09, 2014, 02:49:48 AM
67 and older engines were vented from the oil filler and a canister in the lifter valley which led to a hole near the distributer. In 68 this canister and the hole went away. Ventilation was done with a hole in each valve cover, one to let air in and the other to draw out crankcase air. So when you look at a 67 engine there are no holes in the valve covers and 68,s had one in each. these are two different systems. The deal is if you want it look like a 67 you will need a 67 or older block. If you want it to look that correct.

I looked at some photos of the engine before I put it in storage.  I was either lucky or knew what I was doing and subsequently forgot, b/c the covers are plain chrome and have holes in each cover.

I just googled some images from 68 Corvettes and found images that look familiar.  The images show a metal elbow emerging from the passenger side valve cover leading to a rubber line that makes a turn and ducking under the rear of a big chrome air cleaner.  The driver's side has a similar metal elbow and smaller diameter rubber hose but dives under the front of the air cleaner.

I think they go into the air cleaner, but I'm all googled out for the evening.  Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: hotrod68 on May 11, 2014, 04:09:23 AM
1967 and back 327s had a canister oil filter and a breather tube behind the intake manifold. In 1968 they went to a spin-on filter. '67-back 327s also had different cranks with different size bearings, so there is a small-journal and a large-journal 327, the '68 and '69 being the large-journal. Pre-68 327 cranks were forged, '68 and up were cast. In 1969 and some late '68s the heads were cast differently and the '69 heads had accessory bolt holes for the longer water pump. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: randfr on May 15, 2014, 02:51:26 AM
1967 and back 327s had a canister oil filter and a breather tube behind the intake manifold. In 1968 they went to a spin-on filter. '67-back 327s also had different cranks with different size bearings, so there is a small-journal and a large-journal 327, the '68 and '69 being the large-journal. Pre-68 327 cranks were forged, '68 and up were cast. In 1969 and some late '68s the heads were cast differently and the '69 heads had accessory bolt holes for the longer water pump. Hope this helps.

hotrod68--at this point, everything helps!

I remember complaining about the old canister oil filter on the original engine.  Now I wish I had that old engine and canister to complain about!

Seems I'm "stuck" with the 68 look due to the PVC system, but I'm ok with that.  I've made some other modest trade-offs/upgrades with this painfully slow home grown restoration, mostly for safety and drive-ability.

Somewhere in this forum I've seen discussion about engine mounts and motor mount bracket differences for different small engine/horsepower combinations on the 1st gen.  Since my 327 motor will have much more output than the original 327, what recommendations on engine mounts/brackets would you make?
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: hotrod68 on May 15, 2014, 07:02:18 AM
   Rand.....you can put a Welch plug in the back of the early block and run a PCV system with no problem. There are kits to convert the canister filter to a spin-on filter as well. The early 327s were virtually indestructible on the bottom end because of the stronger crank. If you want the later block, any 350 will work. The only difference in a 350 and a 327 is the crank and the pistons, but you must use a large-journal crank with a 350 block. All had 5.7" rods.
   As far as engine mounts, they were all the same physically except for the Z/28 and 350 as far as I know. The higher-power engines used an interlock in the rubber instead of just solid rubber. As for me, I use the urethane mounts. They are stronger than the rubber mounts and they won't rot. They don't look original, but as for me they are far superior. The frame mounts are all the same as far as how everything bolts up.
  One other thing--the early 327s used a different, smaller harmonic balancer and the timing tabs on the timing cover were different because of the diameter and welded to the cover. Later engines used a bolt-on tab. With a hotrod buildup this becomes a moot point with speed parts,  but it's one of the anomalies.
  Again....good luck and I hope this helps!
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: JohnZ on May 15, 2014, 07:15:42 PM

Somewhere in this forum I've seen discussion about engine mounts and motor mount bracket differences for different small engine/horsepower combinations on the 1st gen.  Since my 327 motor will have much more output than the original 327, what recommendations on engine mounts/brackets would you make?

That's covered here:

http://www.camaros.org/engine.shtml#EngineMounting
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: Hideawaze on May 16, 2014, 11:56:50 PM
  If you like the stock breathers, never had any luck fitting on to Holley carbs, end up looking like everybody else at the shows  aftermarket
Title: Re: Engine swap--are all 327s the same?
Post by: JohnZ on May 17, 2014, 04:24:48 PM
  If you like the stock breathers, never had any luck fitting on to Holley carbs, end up looking like everybody else at the shows  aftermarket

There were stock open-element air cleaners each year for Holley carburetors.