CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: Mac B on March 31, 2012, 02:04:26 PM
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My car is an SS 396 with 3.07 Posi, M-20 (wide ratio) four speed, 325 horse (L-35) 396. Options include hugger orange paint with parchment vinyl roof. orange hounds tooth interior, white hockey stripes, console with no gauges and radio delete. Only 314 Camaros in 1969 had the 3.07 axle. 6,752 L-35 engines were included in convertible and coupe V-8 production numbers. This constituted around 3 percent of the total V-8 build. Taking the total V-8 build (Coupe and Convertible) times 3 percent yields a figure of 10. If my math is correct, no more than 10 cars were built with this engine and rear end configuration. Considering the other options, some of which are quite unusual, this car is a very low number example. It is bone stock (restored) and I intend to keep it that way. I have the original window sticker, protecto plate, original sales contract and a number of original service documents so I am confident of the cars lineage.
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I'd say with that color combo it's one of one. Where was it sold new?
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Murray Stein Chevrolet in Burlington, New Jersey first sold the car. I am actually the third owner. I also suspect it is one of one given the options. The original owner was pretty smart when he ordered this car because the wide ratio four speed with the deep first gear gives it good pickup out of the hole and the 3.07 rear end keeps the revs down at highway speed.
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Thats kool you have all that 'paper ' with the car. You are correct, the m20 would work great with that car.
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Nice looking car. I have never seen an orange houndstooth interior with a white vinyl hardtop before. Did you check to see if the hidden VINs are correct. If so then I would say you have a very low production number car. Does it have a fold down rear seat or power windows?
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One of the "10" L35/4-speed 3.07 posi '69s was purchased new and is still owned by a family member. Window sticker is shown on page 118 of JM's book.
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Nice car and rare color combo, neat that you have all the original documentation with the car.
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Is this the one that was at the World of Wheels in Omaha last week, extremely nice car didn't get to look at it to close because my shoes were not clean enough. Alot of good work went into restoring that car. Good find.
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Yep, we had it at the World of Wheels. It does not have a fold down rear seat or power windows. I have attached a photo of the Window Sticker.
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I have an L35 with a 3:07. I have seen several others. I think this was a standard ratio rear axle so more may exist than the one that show as special order with an RPO code. Just a thought and with like to see other responses.
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And 3:07 was only for 12 bolt axles. So the ratio should not be compared to total production.
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So what would be the correct comparison? Only cars with 12 bolts.
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There were two rear axle codes used in 1969 excluding the QU code used for the 4 wheel disk brake option which was a 3.07, 12 bolt posi. The two remaining codes for the 3.07 rear BL and BR. BL was a 12 bolt non posi unit and BR was the 12 bolt posi unit.
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Mine is a BR. There were 314 total 3.07 rear ends. So how many of these were Positraction?
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Are you saying only 314 3:07 rear ends?? I thought that was the most common 12 bolt ratio. I got two of them.
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Well, according to the following link there were only 314 of them in 1969 Camaros. http://www.thecamaro.com/Production/1969-Camaro-Production-Totals-and-RPO-Numbers.php
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That site probably got their information from CRG. I think you'll find this version much more to your liking...http://www.camaros.org/pdf/options.pdf.
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Thanks for the link. I did note that the number is 314 according to CRG.
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I am guessing RPO code Z27 for a super sport always came with a 3:07 unless a special gear was ordered. So they did not count the alxe in both RPO Z27 and the 3:07 twice.
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I see that the Window Sticker has Full Wheel Covers on it. What did that option consist of in '69? I always thought there were only 3 options; Dog Dish w/ trim rings on 7 in. wheels, 7 in. Rally wheels, or the 7 in. Sport wheel. Was there another?
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Yes, I believe you could get wire wheel covers as well as full wheel covers in 1969.
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I saw this car at the Altantic City collector car auction in 2010, it was beautiful! Nice car!
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I would think that those production numbers for the axles are only for cars specifically ordered with those ratios, when they were not part of the cars economy, standard or performance axle ratios. I have a BL 3.07 non posi axle, and it was the standard axle ratio for a small block SS. I can gaurantee you that it is not part of one of those 314 3.07 axles listed under RPO HO1.
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I see that the Window Sticker has Full Wheel Covers on it. What did that option consist of in '69? I always thought there were only 3 options; Dog Dish w/ trim rings on 7 in. wheels, 7 in. Rally wheels, or the 7 in. Sport wheel. Was there another?
If Camaro SS equipment was ordered and no optional wheel or wheel trim specified the car would be built with body color 14 x 7 wheels and standard hub caps.
If optional P06 trim rings were specified, they were added to the body color wheels and hub caps.
If any of the full-wheel cover options were specified, the standard wheels were painted black.
N66 14 x 7 Sports Wheels were Camaro SS only and were dropped as an option 12-68.
ZJ7 14 x 7 Rally Wheels were a common Camaro SS option; mandatory on Z10 & Z11.
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Yes, the car flipped a couple of times at auction before it arrived at a good home. We showed it in ISCA Restored class and won 2 Outstanding and 3 Best Restored as well as outstanding engine, detail, interior ect. You will see it at Goodguys this summer as we are getting it ready to drive. Gotta do things like wheel balance, fluid changes ect. I have only driven it for a couple of miles but it pulls hard (especially in first) and the wide ratio tranny really works with the 3.07 rear end. The stock exhaust is rather quiet to my ears cause I am a former street rodder but I really like the sound as it is exactly how the car sounded when new.
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... and the wide ratio tranny really works with the 3.07 rear end.
Isn't it great. I have a wide ratio M20 with a 3.07 posi rear coupled with a L30 327. It seems to pull hard & forever in 1st gear, and the gearing is great for just cruising around too.
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Here is a photo of the wheel covers from Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-68-69-CHEVY-CHEVELLE-CAMARO-ELCAMINO-IMPALA-RARE-MAG-HUBCAPS-PAIR-SS-SUPER-/220992435382?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33742cf4b6&vxp=mtr
The dog dish look much better too me.
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^^Tim, those aren't the P01 wheel covers as shown on his window sticker.
These are P01 wheel covers:
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/1969CamarowithP01.jpg)
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Anybody know where those wheel covers can be obtained?
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They aren't being reproduced. Keep an eye out on eBay, sometimes they come up in good shape. The big problem is that the centers fade over time.
Here is a used set: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-1969-1970-CHEVY-CAMARO-14-HUBCAPS-WHEEL-COVERS-SET-4-HARD-FIND-/160745843401?hash=item256d32eac9&item=160745843401&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
I bought a NOS set off eBay about 10-15 years ago. Still haven't gotten around to using them.
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LOTS of cars received the 3.07 12 bolt rear axle.
From the Power Teams chart...
Yes, the standard ratio 12 bolt with the L35 396 engine and all transmission combos was the 3.07
The economy ratio 12 bolt with the LM1 or L48 350 when coupled with the HD 3 speed or M20 4 speed was the 3.07 ratio.
http://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-heritage-archive/docs/Camaro/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro.pdf
Check page 12 of the link above.
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I would think that those production numbers for the axles are only for cars specifically ordered with those ratios, when they were not part of the cars economy, standard or performance axle ratios. I have a BL 3.07 non posi axle, and it was the standard axle ratio for a small block SS. I can gaurantee you that it is not part of one of those 314 3.07 axles listed under RPO HO1.
X2. That is my understanding. We need Kurt or someone in the know to comment.
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I forgot to say. Still a very nice car. :)
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^^Tim, those aren't the P01 wheel covers as shown on his window sticker.
Wow, I have never seen those hub caps on a SS.
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So.....will the car get dinged at a Concours event because I am not running the full wheel covers. I am thinking about getting a set but they will scratch the wheels if I install them. I really like the dog dish look currently on the car.
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I guess if they are judging the car against the window sticker you would get a deduction. Maybe you just don't show them the window sticker.
The wheel covers will scratch the wheels, but you will also need to paint the wheels black to be correct for use with the full covers. So, you wouldn't be going back to the dog dish caps anyway.
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Thanks Jeff, I will stick with the poverty caps and take my chances. Otherwise the car is identical to the window sticker.
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Yes, the ratio production numbers are just the totals for special order ratios (I assume anything but the default ratio). If you total them up, there's only 7042 cars in 69 with special ratios, meaning 235,000 got the default ratio.
I know of 3 other 69s in this color combo. No common with the top.
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Love your car, extremely nice lookin! ;D
...and keep the dog dishes and maybee get an extra set of wheels with black paint and full wheel covers!
Dog dish rules every day of week, herīs my car!
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/Polyglas036.jpg)