CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: oneZ11 on March 21, 2012, 01:00:57 PM
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A buddy has a '69 SS/RS without the original motor, and we've been looking on and off for a correct SB for the car. I found one, but the block has been decked in the rebuild, and the original date/engine codes are gone on the stamp pad. It's a "K" code (late '68).
How does this effect value - as his car is a collectable Camaro?
Also, I've heard of "re-stamping", which I assume is replicating the code back on the pad. Is this frowned upon, or not so bad if the date on the motor matches?
Thx.
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This topic has been discussed time and time again. I don't know of anyone on this site that would tell a friend to purchase a decked engine or forge a fake engine number. Go to advanced search and type in; Decked block, there are several discussions.
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OE motor is more of a factor with special high-performance Camaros like Z/28, L78, COPO. With an L48 some people care, some not so much. Many factors affect value-colors, equipment, condition.
Re-stamping any component on a collector car is only done for one reason-to deceive. With the tremendous body of knowledge out there re-stamps are typically easily detected. It is also not as easy as it sounds. You would first have to locate castings with dates corresponding to the build.
Most people with Camaros missing the OE motor look for a real one with a date matching the time frame of the cars' production. Or have a "restoration" 350 motor built for it that has all the correct parts.
Whatever you do, don't try to pass it off as OE.
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Sorry guys, didn't mean to confuse the issue, I'd never re-stamp a code to deceive/forge - or try to pass of as OE motor. I'm just trying to make an assessment in terms of value.
Yes, this is a correct motor for the car, but with the deck stamp info missing, would future collectors "roll their eyes" and move on to the next car, when considering purchase?
Will check out the discussions you mentioned, thanks.
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I would consider a car with a decked block or a non matching. I would not consider a re-stamp.
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I agree with Steve... If the engine is the original one, decked wtih stamp gone or not, there is enough evidence that the engine is the 'factory original' one, or at least likely the original, that I'd just explain the situation (decked block during engine build) and point out all the original aspects (cast date, casting number, correct ancillary parts, etc)... I don't think you lose much value if this is the case... even in judging, you'd only lose part of the points for the missing stamp.
Gary 69 Z28/RS
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Value-wise, there's only one original engine for the car. If you don't have it, a decked but date correct component engine is not going to be much less that a date correct but non-original engine with stamps. Probably even more equal with a small block. I've read here that the original drivetrain can add 30-33% to the value of a Z28, probably also holds true or close for a COPO and other BBs. I would expect maybe a little less value added for a small block SS car. You can do advance searches on this site to find related threads. Regarding restamps - once they are discovered, the entire car comes into question, and if presented as original by the owner his reputation goes down the toilet. Even with honest intentions, the vehicle will someday pass on to someone else and could be falsely represented.
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It depends on what's in the car now. If it's a newer style block, very much worth going to an vintage block, IMO.
Some people would appreciate it's dated (cast) correct for the car, some would not.
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If its not original, its not original, end of story. Dated parts on some mongrel block don't add enough value to the car to justify the search and expense of adding them to a NOM engine. As far as regular production enignes go, L48's,L30's, LF7's, L65's etc. my own personal view is you won't get one cent more from me, for a dated non original block and components than you would for a 1974 truck block with "correct looking" but maybe not dated correctly parts on it. Once the original is gone, it really doesn't matter whats in there. Same goes for a CE block without paperwork. Theres far to many of those floating around to say it was installed at the dealer in 1969 to justify any added value. If you have paper, then thats a different story. You may be able to get more money for correctly dated stuff and CE bloclks on the lower production motors like L34's, L78's, Z's and COPOs but not for the other engines, but still not enough to offset the value of the parts you need to make it "correct".
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Not really sure what to say except; why are we adding to what we all know will be frustration in the end of this story? Obviously the narrator’s intentions are genuine but why are we adding to what we all know will be heart ache at the end of this story? Wouldn’t it be safe to say the best advice that can be handed down is; sell the car and purchase something that doesn’t leave anything to chance?
I’m viewing this from the stand point of giving advice to a family member or a son/daughter…??? Telling a son or a daughter to move forward with this venture would be like telling them to purchase swamp land as an investment in agriculture??? I say this with the utmost respect to everyone who has commented. But really, when have we ever condoned this type of action?
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My brother bought a 66 vette 427 date coded but a restamp. He bondoed over it because he did not want to hear, is that the original block? or hey that looks like a restamp.
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I stand corrected; just bondo over the cowl tag and your good to go. No one will ever know the difference ???
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Thanks for all the input. Like I said, my friend got his car without the original motor – I think it has an early 70s truck SB in it. We've just been keeping the radar on if a correct '69 350 block showed up. Will consider, but might pass on this one. I'll see what he thinks...
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Put an LS1 in it, then you have removed the issue, and have a stronger engine as well *S*
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I needed a motor for my 69 pace car, found a complete 350 out of a 69 Impala with correct date code.
Not the original but at least period correct. I won't sweat the two bolt mains.
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Isn't there a technique for raising stamped numbers from metal using acid? Seems law enforcement has used this on guns in the past.
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http://www.camaros.org/public/acidetch.txt
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Isn't there a technique for raising stamped numbers from metal using acid? Seems law enforcement has used this on guns in the past.
Read this CRG thread... http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3061.0
Paul