CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: Don_Lightfoot on December 02, 2011, 12:43:30 AM
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As some of you may know I have a part time hobby of replicating various original decals either due to the repros not being correct (almost all of them) or certain ones are just not available from the aftermarket.
I have had several requests over the past year to do the Jacking Instructions for a 68 Z/28. Up until this time nobody has been able to provide me with a picture of an original one which we need to work with. An enthusiast has now provided me with pictures of two originals supposedly from two different Z/28's. This decal is dated 1-10-67 and has a part number of 3909124. I have two questions which hopefully you can help with:
1) - Is the above date and number correct for a 68 Z/28?
2) - I have looked at two repros of this decal which have the usual alignment and spacing errors. However, the repros show a "screwdriver" as part of the jacking equipment. Did a 68 Z/28 originally come with a screwdriver which I assume would have been used for the trim rings?
Thanks in advance for any help.
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Hi Don,
Yes, I believe the 3909124 would be the correct part number, but no expert here. Not sure of the correct date that would have been used starting the 68 model year but that one might be as I know the conv. part #3909135 used into the 68 model year had a date of 6-24-66. Here are two pics of an original 3909135 that I have and yes it shows the screw driver. The primary difference is the 3909135 has a different jack orientation compared to the 3909124.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_6654.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_6657.jpg)
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I think 3909124 was used for all 67 and 68 coupes. 3909135 was for 67 and 68 convertibles.
I've seen a 9/7/66 version of 9124 (it was on an original car, but it may not be original). I don't see the difference between it and the 1/10/67 version. All you really need to do is find some early 67 cars and some late 68 cars and confirm the dates on the labels. That will tell you how many revisions there were.
A 68 Z would never have a screwdriver in the trunk from the factory. That was only for mag and wire-wheel cover cars. But same label for all cars. :)
The labels changed for 69.
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Chick - Good information, thanks. BTW, did you get your "investigations" done as per your last email :)
Kurt - The relativity of the screwdriver makes sense as a trim ring would not need to be removed to change the wheel. Thanks for your input.
NOTE - I updated my website link below as it previously showed an old URL.
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I think 3909124 was used for all 67 and 68 coupes. 3909135 was for 67 and 68 convertibles.
I've seen a 9/7/66 version of 9124 (it was on an original car, but it may not be original). I don't see the difference between it and the 1/10/67 version. All you really need to do is find some early 67 cars and some late 68 cars and confirm the dates on the labels. That will tell you how many revisions there were.
The original jacking instructions decal on my LOS built 02C '68 Z/28 is part number 3909124 and is dated 9-7-66.
Paul
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Interesting Paul. Can you confirm if there are any differences between your decal and the one below, other than the date?
When I first got into these things for Chevelles there were significant differences on survivor cars as to what one they got (EG - 69 SS Chevelle cars didn't always get the SS decal, some got the regular decal. 70 SS Chevelle decals had an early and late version, but there seemed to be no logical cutoff date between the two, I attribute this to being some holdovers at certain plants). There were obviously a lot more plants building Chevelles, but could be a similar circumstance for Camaros between Norwood and Los Angeles ??? ??? ???
(http://www.pbase.com/don_lightfoot/image/140053490.jpg)
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Interesting Paul. Can you confirm if there are any differences between your decal and the one below, other than the date?
Don,
My decal has the screw driver shown and labeled in the illustration. Also, the wheel removal instruction are different. GM added a sentence (in parenthesis) at the end of the wheel removal instructions. My decal reads as follows:
WHEEL REMOVAL REMOVE TRIM COVER WITH
WHEEL WRENCH. LOOSEN, BUT DO NOT REMOVE
WHEEL NUTS BEFORE USING JACK.
(WITH SIMULATED WIRE OR MAGNESIUM TRIM
COVERS, REMOVE WITH SCREW DRIVER).
Other than the above two differences and the date (9-7-66) the decal is the same as the one you posted.
I wonder, since my car was assembled at Van Nuys, is this decal the same as the one GM was installing in the full-size Chevrolets at the time? ???
Kurt, JohnZ, what do you think? ::)
Paul
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And just to throw a wrench in the works...
I was just looking at some photos I took of a LOS built 04D Rally Sport coupe survivor. This car has a different version of the jacking instruction: part no. 3947628, dated 2-9-68.
Paul
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I thought we were talking screwdrivers Paul, not wrenches ;D
I assume the picture below is the same as the one on your car. If I recall, somebody sent me this one quite a while ago and said it was on Jerry's car. Wonder if these ones are actually for a 67 and were held over until used up ??? ???
That other one you mentioned is the only 68 Camaro one we have done so far. A picture is on my website. I was advised by the person providing the original picture that it was for an SS coupe.
(http://www.pbase.com/don_lightfoot/image/140055258.jpg)
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I assume the picture below is the same as the one on your car.
(http://www.pbase.com/don_lightfoot/image/140055258.jpg)
That's it Don, exactly!
Paul
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That other one you mentioned is the only 68 Camaro one we have done so far. A picture is on my website. I was advised by the person providing the original picture that it was for an SS coupe.
Don, I just check your website (nice work). Yup, that's the one (3947628) I was talking about on the 04D RS survivor. This RS coupe has a 327cid/210hp V8, so the decal is not exclusive to a SS.
Paul
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Yup, that's the one (3947628) I was talking about on the 04D RS survivor. This RS coupe has a 327cid/210hp V8, so the decal is not exclusive to a SS.
Paul
Good to know Pual. I've made a note and sdjusted the wording on my website. Thank you.
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Here's my photo of the jacking instructions from the RS survivor...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SMon8AAYHUs/TtlcPF_8NII/AAAAAAAAAUU/EEewwgRSxpk/s800/DSC_0013.JPG)
GM added the "JACK OPERATION" and the "CAUTION" instructions on this version. They also removed the screw driver and related wording.
Paul
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Hey Don, any chance you'll be reproducing the 9-7-66 dated 3909124 version in the future?
Fellow CRG enthusiasts, here's a direct link to Don's website with his current reproduced decals... http://www.angelfire.com/rock/69ss/frame.html
Once there, just click on "Specialized Detail Decals"
Paul
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As usual. now I'd like to know what my 05D Z28 should have on it? I think I have a repro and I know I got a posi NOS sticker from Jerry, but now I'll have to look for my jacking sticker. I'm pretty sure the one on it is wrong.
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Interesting Paul, that survivor picture from the Blue car is the same one I've had on file since April of this year (same tears and everything) ::) It helped us do the replication on that particular item. Did a guy named Keith get that from you?
I will add the 9-7-66 one to our "to do" list Paul. Because of the intricacies of the Jacking Instructions decals they do take time, especially when we only fiddle with this stuff part time. Some of them take up to 4-6 weeks and even longer in the summer when my software buddy is out racing. He's also been experiencing some family issues right now so things are a bit backlogged. Demands for Emissions Decals have also been prominent this year. We do not rush this stuff as we try to be as accurate as possible. You can check with me every so often if you like.
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Interesting Paul, that survivor picture from the Blue car is the same one I've had on file since April of this year (same tears and everything) ::) It helped us do the replication on that particular item. Did a guy named Keith get that from you?
Maybe indirectly. I sent the original photo to Ed Bertrand to document a car for the CRG database. Not sure who saw it after that. Here's another photo of the same decal. I took this photo to document the shrinkage of the decal. Can you see the original dimensions of the decal outlined in this photo?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jvOIWUGAZWE/TtncoFJrWmI/AAAAAAAAAUY/U2LgIqIuf3I/s800/DSC_0012.JPG)
I'm glad the photo was helpful to you.
Paul
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> GM added a sentence (in parenthesis) at the end of the wheel removal instructions.
Actually, it's the opposite - they removed it.
Yours is the 9/7/66 version and has the screwdriver in it.
The 1/10/67 version has it removed.
I guess they thought the screwdriver was too confusing to all the people that didn't have those wheelcovers.
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Kurt, thanks for "schooling" me! :)
Paul
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As usual. now I'd like to know what my 05D Z28 should have on it? I think I have a repro and I know I got a posi NOS sticker from Jerry, but now I'll have to look for my jacking sticker. I'm pretty sure the one on it is wrong.
My 07C has the 3909124 dated 01-10-67.
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I'm going to have to make a guess and assume since mine had so many of the late changes stuff on it, the 1-10-67 sticker would be it. Thanks Jerry.
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Well, Don, can you put the 1-10-67 9124 on a "to do" list too please?
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Well, Don, can you put the 1-10-67 9124 on a "to do" list too please?
Already have. Sent it to my software guru this morning for him to review. My only concern is the original pictures I have are not the "high resolution" variety and may be difficult for us to work with. We'll see.
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Thx.
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12D LOS 302 car. Sticker is in rough shape but you get the idea.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/superslow/1968%20302%20Camaro/DSC02410.jpg)
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68 11C NOR
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h140/hmbrew4u/TrunkArea/CamaroTrunkArea_0009sm.jpg)
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h140/hmbrew4u/TrunkArea/JackingInstructions1.jpg)
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Thought it appropriate to come back in here to provide an update.
Talked to my long distance software buddy tonight. He has been struggling with the trunk diagrams. He feels a lot of the details on the decal pictures I sent have faded which has presented some problems. I have taken anmother long look at them and have come to the following conclusions:
- The lines for the trunk opening lip, trunk floor lines, trunk latch and everything to do with the spare tire are in fact less "pronounced" than things like the jack stand, wing nut, screwdriver (for the one dated 66), lug wrench and jack stand. May seem odd, but that is the way it appears.
- Such is not the case with the jack location diagram which seems to have everything darker and more pronounced.
Do you guys understand what I'm trying to say?
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I would tend to agree. It would make it less busy with all the stuff one has to "see through" in order to figure out what is really going on with the jack and components.?.?
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Thought it appropriate to come back in here to provide an update.
Talked to my long distance software buddy tonight. He has been struggling with the trunk diagrams. He feels a lot of the details on the decal pictures I sent have faded which has presented some problems. I have taken anmother long look at them and have come to the following conclusions:
- The lines for the trunk opening lip, trunk floor lines, trunk latch and everything to do with the spare tire are in fact less "pronounced" than things like the jack stand, wing nut, screwdriver (for the one dated 66), lug wrench and jack stand. May seem odd, but that is the way it appears.
- Such is not the case with the jack location diagram which seems to have everything darker and more pronounced.
Do you guys understand what I'm trying to say?
Yes, and I agree 100%. Some of those similar lines on the NOS conv. one I have are exactly like that and were done that way deliberately I'm sure. If every line would have been bold or the same it would have been way too busy of a sticker.
Can't wait to obtain one for our restoration,
Thanks for the update Don,
Chick
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The AIM does the same thing in it's pictures of the spare tire and jack mounting...FWIW.
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Don do have the correct sticker for a 1969 coupe built in November 1968? George.
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Don do have the correct sticker for a 1969 coupe built in November 1968? George.
Hi George. I've had requests to do them over the last year or so, but to date nobody has provided high quality pictures of an original for us to work with.
Have also had several requests for the emissions decal for both 68 Z and 69 Z, but the lack of pictures of originals have negated those as well.
The guys on Team Chevelle have really stepped up with good pictures when they wanted us to look at an item, similar to the feedback in this thread.
The various jacking instructions decals have been the most challenging due to the intricacies involved.
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Can someone tell me why GM changed the bumper jack 'hook' from '68 to '69? From my perspective, it appears the '68 design (with the round pin in hole) is far superior and safer.
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Don, do you have a link to your site so we can see what decals you have available?
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Yes Steve, go to the "Blue Beast" link in my signature and follow "detail decals".
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I purchased decals from Don and the quality is excellent and even more important, they are correct.
And he's one of the 'good guys'...................
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I feel immortalized. The tire pressure decal for the 68 Z is the picture of mine.
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Don, there are 2 low mileage very original 69's that I know of locally. I will try and get you high res. pictures & info. The decal for my 70 Chevelle you made was exactly as the original, I wish I would have ordered the glue on decal as apposed to the self adhesive and would recommend that to others. George
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Don, there are 2 low mileage very original 69's that I know of locally. I will try and get you high res. pictures & info. The decal for my 70 Chevelle you made was exactly as the original, I wish I would have ordered the glue on decal as apposed to the self adhesive and would recommend that to others. George
That would be great George, thanks. Yes, my posi decal and jacking instructions can be done like original where the glue needs to be applied.
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Don't take this as impatience, but any idea when the 68Z et al jacking instructions will be done? I don't even need them yet, but I don't want to forget about them.
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Don't take this as impatience, but any idea when the 68Z et al jacking instructions will be done? I don't even need them yet, but I don't want to forget about them.
I haven't forgot. My software buddy Shaun is finding it difficult right now to find time to get at these. Hang in there.
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Thanks, I've got plenty of time. Maybe you could post here when it is done?
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Don do have the correct sticker for a 1969 coupe built in November 1968? George.
Hi George. I've had requests to do them over the last year or so, but to date nobody has provided high quality pictures of an original for us to work with.
I wish my 01B 69 Z/28 had a better condition one that you could work with. Here's mine:
(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/interior/PRT_0306.jpg)
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Thanks for the picture David. I will keep it on file for future reference. Unfortunately it is not clear enough for us to work with, but can be used for comparison purposes. Are you able to read the date and part number on it?
Another member on here, Rick (HOT302), sent me a pciture of one that he got back around 1980. He does not know if it is an original or a reproduction. Details are indeed different than your picture. The date on his is 10-1-68 with a part number of 3949506.
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Don - do you guys have anything (decal) for the '69 space saver spare?
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Are you able to read the date and part number on it?
The car is being restored but the next time I am at the shop, I will check it.
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OK David, thanks.
Marty - we haven't done any Jacking Instructions decals for 69 Camaros as yet. I've received pictures of a couple different versions from members on here (not necessarily ones we can really work with), don't know if one is for a space saver or not. If you can get a good picture of an original send it and I will keep it on file.
Given the time it takes to do the Jacking Instructions correct (very intricate) who knows when we can get at them. Especially given my buddy Shaun's time restraints these days due to his recent life changing situation.
Also, if we get these two 68 Jacking Instructions done that are on the table now, the next two waiting are the Emissions Decals for 68 Z and 69 Z.
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We're getting close guys. Apparently Shaun has a couple of issues to sort out regarding the "bubbles and discolouration" on some of the pictures of originals we are working with. He thinks he can work though them (fingers are crossed).
I don't think I ever found out yet what size these are. If you guys with originals could measure them for me I would appreciate it. Also, were the 9-7-66 and 1-10-67 versions both the same size? Maybe they are the same as the other 68 Camaro one we have done which was about 5" x 4 1/8". Thanks.
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Don,
My original 9-7-66 decal is exactly 123mm x 106mm or approximately 4 13/16" x 4 1/8". The corners are rounded.
Paul
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Thanks Paul.
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Is patience a virtue? I hope so.
We have finished the 3909124 Jacking Instructions decal dated 9-7-66. My buddy Shaun performed his usual excellent work. I feel the end result is very good. Images, information and comparisons are on my website below.
With any luck the one dated 1-10-67 will be completed shortly.
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Attached is a picture of an original 1969 base convertible Jacking Instructions sticker for anyone who is interested.
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We have now finished the most common 68 Coupe decal #3909124 dated 1-10-67. Information is on my website below.
Thanks for all the input in getting these two items off the graound.
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Don, here is the picture from a 35K 69Z NOR built 02A I promised in March. It is a very nice original car. Hope that helps. George
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Thanks for the email and pics George. We had another picture of a fantastic original sent to us last month and this decal is the one we are currently looking at.
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Dragging up a dead thread. Adding back my original photo. Does anyone have a better photo of the instructions like the one I have? This is 68 (Dec 67) LOS car. 12D
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Wanted to add Skip's 68 Z to this. Notice the differences. 07B NOR 68
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20RS%20Z28/DSC_1033_zpshqdveqfy.jpg)
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dannystarr 68Z 05E NOR
(http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12453.0;attach=15010;image)
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I discovered my jacking instructions decal is for a 67 which apparently has been seen in some early 68 cars. Still would like to know if there are other early 68 Z with the 67 decal.
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I'm dropping the car down today for interior work. Can post an April build if it will help. Or too late of a build? Sworn I had pics from under decklid on the external, but not finding it.
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No reason not to post but definitely interested in early 68's especially LOS cars. Thanks and good to see you post!
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Dated 2-68 on an April car. Blurry,,hand a little shaky with the phone. I drop by,,following that 69 6 banger.
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There's very little left of this decal but might be just enough to match it to others. Sorry it's not better. Then again, it might be too new for your research. This car was built in LA March 13th 1968...Joe
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Sorry missed your photo. The more the merrier. I’ll have to study & compare on that one for a little bit.
Also if anyone is looking Mr. Lightfoot is still doing decals as I just place an order for mine for if and when I start the full resto on my car.
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Wanted to give a shout out to Don Lightfoot on a recent order of decals for the potential restoration on my 68 Z. Not sure I'll do a restoration but wanted to have the decals on hand for the future. Excellent work as always. Went with the original style posi decals that were applied with glue on the back vs the current repos that are adhesive backed.
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Darrel Look at ebay item:
eBay item number:194687767367
LOS
12B with the 1966 Jack instructions.
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Wanted to give a shout out to Don Lightfoot on a recent order of decals for the potential restoration on my 68 Z. Not sure I'll do a restoration but wanted to have the decals on hand for the future. Excellent work as always. Went with the original style decals that were applied with glue on the back vs the current repos that are adhesive backed.
Hats off to Don, he does terrific work and is always up for a new challenge. You mentioned that "original style decals are applied with glue" which is true for the positraction caution decal. Oddly, original jacking instruction decals originally had an adhesive backing like modern decals which partially explains why they survived and the posi decals often fell off the trunk lid.
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You are correct Lloyd I mistakenly said it wrong when I typed it up. Traction decal was glued and jacking had adhesive. Thank you for mentioning this as I wouldn’t want to mislead anyone.