CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: GI JOE on August 28, 2011, 11:56:04 PM
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I have been thinking of doing something about the fraud being sold on eBay... for example: This Camaro is being advertised as a L78 Convertible and after reading 2 pages of crap you find out it is not even an SS let alone an L78... and asking $50k....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3984Q2em1423Q2el2649QQitemZ320748528866QQsspagenameZSTRKQ3aMEWAXQ3aIT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3984Q2em1423Q2el2649QQitemZ320748528866QQsspagenameZSTRKQ3aMEWAXQ3aIT)
and it is not just the fake cars, it also the fake parts! Until ebay is forced to do something about false advertising the crooks will continue to have a field day >:(
You cannot rely on ebay even if you report the fraud. So I am hoping that if enough of us put our heads together we can come up with some ideas on how we can stop this or something...
I am willing and able... any ideas?
PS i forgot to mention all the fake documents being sold too that are also polluting our hobby...
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Need a good Attorney who will start a class action.
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I think all of us feel your frustration and I applaud your dedication and enthusiasm. Only one problem...how do you take on a company as huge as EBay? One would have to assume their army of attorneys are well prepaired to deal with anyone trying to remove a large chunk of their income. One would also have to assume the political system is at their disposal. Unless you are more powerful (both politically & financially) than EBay, it is only a pipe dream.
I hope I'm wrong but I think you have done all that can be done. You have exposed one of these sellers for what they are. And...this is but one of many CRG has managed to expose. I don't know of any other site that has helped more to minimize these types of sales.
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Thanks Marty,
sadly I think you may be correct... maybe we can get the ear of the FBI or maybe we could start going public with what is going on with some talk shows or something. I thought of starting a website posting any fraudulent cars VIN but that may still require a team of attorneys. sigh :-\
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Only one problem...how do you take on a company as huge as EBay? One would have to assume their army of attorneys are well prepaired to deal with anyone trying to remove a large chunk of their income. One would also have to assume the political system is at their disposal.
I don't know of any other site that has helped more to minimize these types of sales.
Applaud the effort but this is not a ebay to say issue. We neither can or should expect Ebay or any company to have an army of employees checking every car/part/literature ad to verify it's the real deal. What about non-automotive parts as rip offs and fakes reside in all types of things as fraud has no boundaries. No different than someone placing an ad in the newspaper. Know personally I have sent messages to Ebay concerning a few very apparent shams and each one was removed.
The site that consistently warns and documents vin #'s etc. is Team Camaro. So between Team Camaro and here a lot of fraud or just say suspect Camaro's have been listed. That's the great news and shows a lot of people like you Joe CARE!
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Ebay has a disclaimer. They cant be touched. They will pull the add if someone files a complaint. All that can be done is on the buyer. Do your research.
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Here's Ebay's disclaimer, it appears on every listing... "Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing."
Paul
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I thought of starting a website posting any fraudulent cars VIN but that may still require a team of attorneys. sigh :-\
And what if you're wrong? Yuck, don't want to go there.
That's where the Team Camaro and CRG forums can at least help by stating opinions and including the VIN in the discussion.
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Thanks guys, I am seeing the issue in a better light now... guess we can just keep doing what we've been doing on CRG and team Camaro...
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Guys, Although many adds are fraud, I feel that many are just lack of knowledge. I go to shows where people really believe their X11 is a true Z because thats what they were told when they bought it. I have seen countless (L78s) that clearly were not but the owners were positive that they were. For most of us this is a hobby but for some it is a business. It is a buyer beware situation and CRG and Team Camaro are free tools that buyers should use. When looking for my Z28 years ago I think I spent more time researching than I did shopping.
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Kelley - Well stated! Especially your last sentence.
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As an attorney who specializes in collector car fraud there is no way to stop it. With the values being what they are, there will always be folks trying to get more for their car than another car. The extent to which they will go is anyone's guess.
As far as advertisements go, most people don't realize it, but they can be held to whatever they write about a car. If they state that a car is an L78 or Z28, then they can be held to that statement if the car turns out to be otherwise. A carefully worded ad may even be deceptive. The best practice is not to rush into any purchase and do your homework ahead of time. Even that is not failsafe, but it certainly helps flush out the less sophisticated frauds. Also, I highly recommend having any Camaro looked at prior to purchasing, by someone such as Jerry MacNeish to ensure what you are negotiating for is really what is being offered.
Also keep in mind that if a deal is "too good to be true" it probably isn't true!
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I hope your office was well above ground this last week.
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I was wondering if anyone knows if these fraudulent sales are also breaking GM copy rights... I would think they are but I guess it comes down to what the big guys want to do about it. I know it will never stop but I hope we can at least help those who would be victim to such wrong doing.
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This kind of fraud has been going on for decades, no point in in blaming ebay for allowing it to continue on it's merry way!!!
The hobby and greed has allowed it to become a monster that is now out of control.
My 2 pennies worth.... ???
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In my opinion E-Bay is not the culprit as their business model just connects a buyer and seller. Any auction house does the same thing like Barrett Jackson, Mecum etc. A buyer should always do their homework prior to spending those hard earned dollars, I think Mike Stone often says fill your library before you fill your garage, this makes complete sense. I have often seen sellers don't really know what they have....Someone before them told a story about the item and they took that person at their word. Very easy to get burned however it's sites like this that potential buyers can solicit feedback about trim tags, stampings and the overall car.
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Someone got me for 2500.00 down payment a few years back on a 69 z28. (overseas) >:(