CRG Discussion Forum
Model Specific Discussions => Trans-Am Camaros => Topic started by: S A Dunbar on August 21, 2011, 01:31:46 AM
-
I'd be interested in any photos of the 1969 Camaro raced by Marshall Robbins, and then by Carl Shafer... I believe the car was numbered 24 when raced by Marshall, and was numbered 21 when raced by Carl...
Many thanks....
-
Welcome. I don't have any photos of the car. My youngest brother has most of the pictures our family took
when we attended the Road America races from 1970-1974. I know there are two or three photos of Carl's
car at the following link if you look under the year 1972.
http://www.autocourse.ca/index.php?file=photos.html
I think I have the double-adjustable Konis off of that car. I think it was damaged and parted out. No?
-
Scott,
You may already have pictures of it in the orange and white Greenwood paint scheme, but if not, there is an action shot in Corvette News magazine from Apr/May 1971. In the picture, with I'm guessing Bill Petree (sp) driving, John Greenwood is trying to avoid another spinning Corvette with his A Production Corvette while the future Dunbar Camaro is closing in.
Mike Jarchow
-
Welcome. I don't have any photos of the car. My youngest brother has most of the pictures our family took
when we attended the Road America races from 1970-1974. I know there are two or three photos of Carl's
car at the following link if you look under the year 1972.
http://www.autocourse.ca/index.php?file=photos.html
I think I have the double-adjustable Konis off of that car. I think it was damaged and parted out. No?
Yes...it was parted out. Vern Brown of Verona, Wisconsin purchased the remains... How did you end up with the Koni's?
-
Scott,
You may already have pictures of it in the orange and white Greenwood paint scheme, but if not, there is an action shot in Corvette News magazine from Apr/May 1971. In the picture, with I'm guessing Bill Petree (sp) driving, John Greenwood is trying to avoid another spinning Corvette with his A Production Corvette while the future Dunbar Camaro is closing in.
Mike Jarchow
Bill Petree drove the car in 1969... The car was built by John and Burt Greenwood, and owned by the Greenwoods when Bill drove it to the 1969 National Championship in Daytona. Marshall Robbins purchased the car in 1970 - it was maintained by Bill Spangler, as were all of Marshall's cars. Marshall was named the SCCA National Rookie of the Year driving it. Next was Carl Shafer in 1971, who was also named the SCCA National Rookie of the Year in the car. My father purchased the car in 1973 from Carl. He won the June Sprints with it 3 times (1977, 1979, 1981).He qualified for the SCCA Runoffs 14 times in the car, finishing 4th in 1979, 1st in 1980 and 3rd in 1981 (along with several other top 6 finishes along the way). Unfortunately the car was destroyed at Road Atlanta in the 1984 GT1 race along with many other cars in the turn 6 Runoffs crash.... (I have a couple video's of the crash.) I've heard of various pieces of the car being owned by a handful of folks, and rumours of it's reconstruction every so often...
-
My dad used to crew for Jerry Lagod in his 1968 Camaro, including during a trip to the run-offs at Daytona in 1969 when Bill Petree won. Lagod finished 3rd.
-
Yes...it was parted out. Vern Brown of Verona, Wisconsin purchased the remains... How did you end up with the Koni's?
I purchased them from Corvette racer Howard Nardick after seeing his ad for them on a Camaro website. I'm not sure how he got them but he said they came off of the Shafer/Dunbar Camaro.
-
My dad used to crew for Jerry Lagod in his 1968 Camaro, including during a trip to the run-offs at Daytona in 1969 when Bill Petree won. Lagod finished 3rd.
Jerry is a good friend. Sadly, Max passed away this summer after a long battle...
-
Yes...it was parted out. Vern Brown of Verona, Wisconsin purchased the remains... How did you end up with the Koni's?
I purchased them from Corvette racer Howard Nardick after seeing his ad for them on a Camaro website. I'm not sure how he got them but he said they came off of the Shafer/Dunbar Camaro.
I remember Howard well... I'm sure he purchased them from Vern... Those are very nice shocks... We tried a few other brands along the way, but always returned to the Koni's.
-
The original double-adjustable Konis are a very good shock and hard to find these days. To my understanding, the body shell of the Camaro has been severely damaged as a result of that 1984 crash but it was not discarded. Is that correct?
-
The original double-adjustable Konis are a very good shock and hard to find these days. To my understanding, the body shell of the Camaro has been severely damaged as a result of that 1984 crash but it was not discarded. Is that correct?
Yes....it was most certainly severely damaged. I actually don't know what came of it. It all went to Vern - I know he sold much of it in pieces, but don't know what became of the shell. I have heard it is in the Phoenix area with the intention of being restored someday, but don't know for certain. I received several calls a couple of years ago from someone from Phoenix interested in details of the car and photos - purportedly for the purpose of restoring the car..
The very first Chevrolet Power Book - the one with green loose leaf pages - had several pages of chassis and suspension drawings of how to modify a stock 1969 Camaro for racing purposes. The drawings are of this car - made when the car was built by the Greenwoods (Chevrolet paid for the original construction of the car).
If I knew how, I could post a couple of "Post Crash" photos of the car...
-
Bill Keefe from Keefe Performance in the Phoenix area has the car now. He has Vern's Corvette too...and my Corvette.
-
If I knew how, I could post a couple of "Post Crash" photos of the car...
When you go to post a reply, there's a place at the bottom that says "Attach:" and to the right of that there is a little box that says "Browse..."
Click on the Browse box and find the picture file on your computer that you want to post. When you double click on that file it will attach it to your reply message.
To add a second photo (or more), click on "more attachments" to the right of "Browse..." and you should be able to do the same thing as above.
Then click "Post" at the bottom of the page after you have included any message that you want to accompany the photos. Let me know if that doesn't work for you.
-
First - a pre crash photo.... 1979 Road America June Sprints....
-
And now the results of the 1984 Road Atlanta GT1 crash in turn 6....
-
.
-
.
-
.
-
As you can see, the damage was substantial, as was the damage to most of the cars involved in the same crash. At the time, it wasn't worth the expense to attempt to rebuild it, as the car was no longer competitive with the very competitive GT1 class. The car was replaced with a Roush built Mercury Capri, which he raced in both SCCA GT1 and the IMSA Kelly American series. The Capri was later replaced with a Pontiac Firebird (which was rebodied into a Chev. Camaro a couple years later)... This car was raced in both GT1 and Trans Am races...
-
That is a heck of a wreck... and would be an impressive undertaking to rebuild. If this were to be restored, it would be quite interesting to see a photo documentation of the effort.
I know the end result may not be worth as much as this Low Drag, Lightweight E-Type (http://www.classic-motor-cars.co.uk/c_restoration_lindner_nocker.html), but seeing true craftsmen repair mangled race cars is perhaps more engaging to me than seeing them compete (I suggest scrolling to the lower pics in the link above to see what these folks started with).
Mr. Dunbar, thanks for posting the before and after photos of this Camaro race car.
-Chad
-
Thanks a lot for posting those photos, Scott. As Chad suggests, it would be nice to see the car get properly brought back to life using as much of the original car as possible rather than cutting out the serial numbers and attaching them to another body.
-
Back to the intent of the thread... I'd be interested in any photos of the Camaro when raced by either Bill Petree, Marshall Robbins or Carl Shafer.
And while I'm at it, I'd also be interested in any photos of our 1968 Yellow #32 Corvette... Here are two of the few photos I have of it....
#1
-
#2
-
Or any photos of our 1963 Corvette...
-
Looks like Blackhawk Farms. I went to most if not all of the races there in the 1970-1974 timeframe. I'll see if I can find anything.
In the meantime, here are some things from the 1969 ARRC race featuring your Camaro when Bill Petree was driving it.
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/ARRC001.jpg)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/ARRC002.jpg)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/ARRC003.jpg)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/ARRC004.jpg)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/ARRC005.jpg)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/ARRC006.jpg)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/ARRC007.jpg)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/ARRC008.jpg)
-
Looks like Blackhawk Farms. I went to most if not all of the races there in the 1970-1974 timeframe. I'll see if I can find anything.
In the meantime, here are some things from the 1969 ARRC race featuring your Camaro when Bill Petree was driving it.
You're correct, those photos are from Blackhawk...but we raced at all the Cen Div Nationals, as well as a few Midwestern Div. Nationals, and various regionals in the Cen Div during that timeframe.... For example, in 1973, we raced the yellow '68 Corvette in 9 Nationals, with (5) 1st place finishes, (3) second place finishes and one DNF (a blown clutch at IRP).
The photos of Bill Petree and the accompanying article are fantastic. Coincidentally, I spent yesterday afternoon with Jerry Lagod, who finished 3rd to Bill Petree at the 1969 A Sedan runoffs.
-
I'm glad those things I posted about Bill Petree were new to you and that you enjoyed them. It's sad to hear of Max Lagod's passing at just 41 years old. He was a fine racer and 2-time SCCA GT-1 Champion. My condolences go out to Max's family.
-
I'm glad those things I posted about Bill Petree were new to you and that you enjoyed them. It's sad to hear of Max Lagod's passing at just 41 years old. He was a fine racer and 2-time SCCA GT-1 Champion. My condolences go out to Max's family.
Max was very close to his family and friends.... Yes, his passing was - and still is - very sad.
In addition to his road racing accomplishments, Max was also a Bonneville Speed Trial record holder...
-
It is very tough to lose a close friend and especially a family member, especially when they are young like that. There is no doubt about that.
I have looked through all the Road America negatives I have and unfortunately was not able to find anything pertaining to the Dunbar Corvettes or Camaro. I would think my brother might have something but I have tried in vain for several years to borrow any of it from him. Maybe somebody else will be able to come up with something as more people look in on this thread.
-
Jerry still has his old camaro? From memory, I spoke to him at one of the Vancouver Molson Indy events, when the T/A was a support race to the Indy cars, and Max was driving. Jerry and I raced against each other 4 times according to ultimateracinghistory.com
Robert Barg
-
Robert,
Jerry still has the car. In fact, Max drove it for a couple of years in regionals and nationals in 1988 and 1989.
Mike J.
-
Nice to hear that - can't imagine that too many guys who raced still have their original cars. My first two 1st generation cars are long gone, although the ex Dick Hoffman 71 car is still alive - last I heard it was listed for sale with Dale Phelon Racing.
Robert Barg
-
Here's a Valvoline ad with the Camaro, as driven by Bill Petree.
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/BillPetreeValvolinead.jpg)
-
Here's a Valvoline ad with the Camaro, as driven by Bill Petree.
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/BillPetreeValvolinead.jpg)
Fantastic! How do you find these things?
-
Well... I've got a lot of old magazines, which I guess I'm glad I held on to because I'm getting good use out of them now.
-
Yes...it was parted out. Vern Brown of Verona, Wisconsin purchased the remains... How did you end up with the Koni's?
I purchased them from Corvette racer Howard Nardick after seeing his ad for them on a Camaro website. I'm not sure how he got them but he said they came off of the Shafer/Dunbar Camaro.
Bill Keefe from Keefe Performance in the Phoenix area has the car now. He has Vern's Corvette too...and my Corvette.
actually Mike he doesn`t, the firewall back body went to a Madison area junk yard along with the title, Vern Brown will confirm this as he`s the one who sold it for scrap, Vern will also confirm billy keefe/okeefe swiped Vern`s extensive scrap book his wife Joyce (now ex wife) kept, billy promised to return it but never did. I bought all the wheels off the car and a ti distributor. the Koni`s came from the Blackhawk farms/Ray Irwin garage sale, Ray told me he got them from Jerry Dunbar................HN
-
Mike don`t forget he has Dittman`s second Corvette although he cut the cage off and then into bite size pieces. HN
-
Great information, Howard. Thanks for your input.
-
Keefe did say he got the car at a junk yard in Wisconsin.
-
Bill does have the remains of the body/chassis/cage, which he retrieved from the junk yard where Vern sold it. He also has a fair amount of odds and ends/pieces from the car. All of the various pieces of the car that Bill has in his possession are still stored locally (in Northern IL). The Koni shocks were still mounted on the car when it went to Vern, so if Howard purchased them from Ray, then Ray acquired them from Vern...which is possible. If I saw them (or a picture), and if they are still in original condition, I would likely know if they are the shocks that came off our 69 Camaro. There never was a "title" for the car. It was never "titled" - as the Greenwoods acquired the chassis directly from the GM tech center when the car was originally constructed....
Ray Irwin did purchase our later 1991 Camaro, as well as all the spares for the '91 Camaro. We used both Koni and Penske shocks on the '91 Camaro and both sets went with the car.
-
This video was on the History Channel recently. This is part 2 of 3 from a You Tube video of a science video discussing collisions in outer space... Oddly enough, at the 13min 44 sec. mark, there is a short video clip of the crash that destroyed the Camaro...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrWgVVl1R2A&feature=youtu.be
-
That's quite a collision. For convenience, here is a link that takes you directly to the 13:44 mark in the above video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrWgVVl1R2A&feature=player_detailpage#t=824s
-
Wow, that's quite an impact. Thanks for posting.
-
Hell of an impact!!! WOW!!! I can't pause it well enough to tell......did he strike another car or is that just armco and a tree???
klvn8r
-
Hell of an impact!!! WOW!!! I can't pause it well enough to tell......did he strike another car or is that just armco and a tree???
klvn8r
Mickey Agee in his Corvette had already hit the guardrail and flipped upside down, landing parallel to the guardrail. My dad went in backwards into the drivers side of the Corvette, driving both thru the guardrail, then spun around 180 and hit a tree head on, raising the rear of the Camaro about 5 feet high. Mickey suffered a badly broken ankle, (along with other less severe injuries) requiring it to be fused during surgery. Incredibly lucky he wasn't more severely injured. My dad broke his right hand on the gear shift knob, and had his gall bladder "flip" (from the tree impact), requiring it to be removal...
I have film, transferred to DVD, of the entire accident, starting with Jim Fitzgerald sliding off the track... Eighteen cars were involved, most of them were destroyed...
-
Here's another shot of Bill Petree in the car during the 1969 ARRC race. This is from a Champion spark plug ad.
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/Petree.jpg)
-
Here's another shot of Bill Petree in the car during the 1969 ARRC race. This is from a Champion spark plug ad.
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/Petree.jpg)
Fantastic, Jon! Now to find a few photos of the car when raced by Marshall Robbins (in 1970)... It was orange/black #24 when driven by Marshall...
-
Interesting ad from Minneapolis Craigslist implying this is the former Bill Petree '69 race car.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/5251343895.html
-
I placed a posting of this ad on the Trans-Am page on Facebook, knowing Marshall Robbins and Scott Dunbar would see it. Both agree its not the car the owner is suggesting it to be, and Scott contacted the seller about it. The ad has since been changed with any reference to its apparent racing history now removed.
-
Thanks a bunch for doing that, Steve!
-
I placed a posting of this ad on the Trans-Am page on Facebook, knowing Marshall Robbins and Scott Dunbar would see it. Both agree its not the car the owner is suggesting it to be, and Scott contacted the seller about it. The ad has since been changed with any reference to its apparent racing history now removed.
I'm sorry to sound any any way critical--being that I know next to nothing compared to most of you guys...
...but I really think that given the significance of these cars today and their estimated values, people should be a little more careful with what they purport their cars to be.
It's so easy to say something, and yet so hard to prove it...guess people just want to make a quick buck[but it's not that easy].
Either you do the research to prove it to the buyer(s), or someones going to shoot you down....how do you want it?
:-\ :-X
-
John Mello - The person who placed the craigslist ad claims to have purchased the firewall tags from our former Camaro from the person we sold the Camaro to back in 1984. That was the basis of his claim of owning/restoring our former Camaro and having "documentation" and having racing history. The car in the photos he placed in his craigslist ad is an SS Camaro he purchased in California that never sniffed a race track. The tags off our Camaro are Z28 body tags. Rest assured he will try to sell the Z28 body tags to someone who has a car they intend to claim as something it is not... The misrepresentation of this car as our former car is resolved - but I fear another misrepresentation by this person is likely to occur in the future ...
-
Marshall has shared a few photos of our former Camaro from his 1970 race season with the car...
-
Another photo from Marshall...
-
Scott, thanks for filling us in on that background story and I'm glad you were able to get that guy to back off his fraudulent claim. It's too bad there are people out there who are always trying to pull a fast one but life just seems to be that way no matter what your hobbies or interests are.
Thanks also for posting those photos of the car when Marshall Robbins owned it. They're terrific.
-
great photos of the Robbins Camaro ! is the first colour photo at Daytona, the garages look familiar ? Marshall is a really nice guy, he was kind enough to recently answer some questions I had on the ex Chaparral Camaro he drove.
Mike (group/7)
-
Scott, thanks for filling us in on that background story and I'm glad you were able to get that guy to back off his fraudulent claim. It's too bad there are people out there who are always trying to pull a fast one but life just seems to be that way no matter what your hobbies or interests are.
Thanks also for posting those photos of the car when Marshall Robbins owned it. They're terrific.
Before I introduced myself to the guy, he claimed to have letters of authenticity from both my father and from Marshall - which, of course, he did not... Marshall thought we should take a drive to Minnesota and do a citizens arrest! lol...
-
great photos of the Robbins Camaro ! is the first colour photo at Daytona, the garages look familiar ? Marshall is a really nice guy, he was kind enough to recently answer some questions I had on the ex Chaparral Camaro he drove.
Mike (group/7)
Mike,
The first photo posted of the Camaro in Marshall's paint scheme is outside Bill Spangler's shop in Indianapolis. Bill maintained the Camaro as well as many other of Marshall's race cars over the years. Great guy and tremendous fabricator/mechanic. RIP, Bill....