CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: dannystarr on July 31, 2011, 01:40:15 AM
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My friend just sent me this as he was interested. He thought the paint was awesome. Am I seeing a decked block and paper work that looks like it was filled out yesterday?? I am thinking to tell him to pass. Anybody know this car?? It is on eBay. Looks like SO SO MANY things incorrect. Proportioning valves, hoses, stickers..... Danny
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120755314371&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
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Trim tag is a reproduction, eninge stamp is a reproduction, most of the car is amde up of aftermarket hardware, gauge cluster with no clock, shifter with a white knob with the shift pattern on it, master cylinder is wrong, springs are reproductions, Z28s never had space saver spares as an option etc. etc. Can't even beleive the speedometer cable hasn't broken, its run under the tail peice of the tranny and up the driveres side of the car.
(http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv57/fmattingly/Camaro%20Z28%201969%20Lemans%20Blue/075a.jpg)
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If your going to fake a car at least try to get some of the obvious things right. I like the "yellow handle" dipstick, barcode & red sticker on alternator! Trunk braces body color, X77 car with side grills and no rocker spears. Wrong size tires, wrong shift lever, repro steering wheel, trunk latch not painted body color, posi tag on inside of trink lid missing and on it goes
Buyer beware!
just my 2 cents
LM69Z28
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I have to agree with Mark there are many questionable issues on this car.... in addition to that, the POP and paperwork is definitely not 43 years old..!
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...and that stupid "fan" sticker.
John
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It seems the longer the story and the more pictures a person has, the more they are trying to cover up. If I ever sold my car I'd have 10-15 pictures and a short description of what it has and that's it. If it's real, it will bear scrutiny. If it isn't, no amount of BS will change it. That whole BS novel must have taken as long to write as the "restoration" of that "car" took.
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yeah I'm no expert but it seems like this was born yesterday.
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Definitely more questions than answers with this one. Appears to be a reproduction trim tag and that POP looks brand new. Lots of incorrect items on the car and not worth anyones time and effort to pursue this as a real deal Z, a real shame as the car does look beautiful in that Lemans blue paint.
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I have had many cars that the warranty booklet and protecto plate look new. I have a low mile 6 cylinder car now with them. Can't really judge based on newness look.
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I have had many cars that the warranty booklet and protecto plate look new. I have a low mile 6 cylinder car now with them. Can't really judge based on newness look.
Charley I think for most folks it would be a combination of items on this one that would call the POP into question. When there is a discrepancy with the trim tag, engine pad stamping etc and then the POP looks brand new....makes you wonder. I agree you cannot judge one item because it looks new but for me this is a combination of issues.
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You could spend half that money and get a real numbers matching Z28... and just as nice. I totally agree with Mark C. There is a lot wrong with this car and for that price it better be perfect. It sure is pretty though....
FYI- in case you didn't know, You can check eBay Camaro sales to see what has been selling by selecting advance search, 1969 Camaro, checking the past listings box.
If everything looks correct and checks out, passes the crg review, I would also have someone like Jerry check the car before any money exchange. Hope that helps.
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Yes, this is what I thought. I got most of what everyone noticed but the springs and a couple other things. I'm not THAT sharp. To funny with the Ford Truck fan sticker. Good Times!!... Danny
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dont walk away from this car.....RUN!!!!!! there are more things wrong with that car. after a nut and bolt resto, you would think he could put the grille emblem in the right spot. x-77 cars didnt have chrome on the headlight bezels, or vertical chrome on the tail lights, not to mention the qtr gills. did anyone notice the phillips screws holding the plastic for the rug under the pedals? no rocker spears, should have YH rallyes not AD trim tag is fake, the list goes on and on. i will go back and look at the pics again, i know i am forgetting a few things
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I seldom comment on these type auctions but felt compelled to send him a quick note. This type scenario is getting very common.
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well I received the following reply:
Well Ken, are you sure your name isn't Ray... all I can say is you are blind and ignorant. This car is not a fake and if you think it is why don't you make some statements about exactly what you think is fake and then bring your experts, we will bring ours and see who is right. If you want to put your money where your rediculous mouth is we will be more than happy to take any bet. Come on DUDE. There is absolutely NOTHING fake about this car. You could not be more wrong. Where do people like you come from... you read some jackals nonsense in a chatroom and take it for gospel. GET A CLUE before you make rediculous statements like you just made. If you are even REAL call me any time at 949-310-6262 and tell me just what exactly you are referring to. You won't because you have no clue or you are just a fake... hiding behind your anonymous eBay name.
- smithird
and this is my reply:
Dear smithird,
well my name is not Ray??? My name is as stated Kenneth Shupe and I'll make you a deal you cannot refuse if your're so sure of your car. I will pay for Jerry Macneish to come and certify your car at no charge I'll even pay for his airfare. If it's not real then hey problem solved if it is I'm out my money and I'll post a full apology anywhere you like. Time to "cowboy up" just let meknow and I'll make a few phone calls and make an appointment for the inspection.
yours truly Kenneth Shupe
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"This is the Holy Grail by most Collector Standards. This is probably one of the finest examples available on the market today."
Pretty bold statement for a car that is totally out of whack. Add to the list...headers, plug wires, dip stick, space saver spare & I don't think I have ever seen a more perfect spot weld on a trim tag.
As for the engine pad. Fill me in guys. The most obvious is a two tear pad, but what else am I missing?
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I don't think I have ever seen a more perfect spot weld on a trim tag.
Although there are things incorrect on the car, trim tags were not originally spotwelded on, rivets were used.
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Thanks for jogging my memory. I guess the years of gunk built up inside the rivet of those I've seen, led me to believe they were welded...including mine.
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They were filled with seam sealer. To prevent wind noise I'd guess.
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Dad-gum-it, I know we went down this road before. Must be getting younger... :-\. On the plus side, this confirms I would have real problems trying pass a fake off as the real thing... ;D.
You'd have to admit...this guys rivits are way too pretty.
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Same thing happened to me. I mentioned that I don't think the block should have a step up on the front pad. Or this or that. I didn't give him everything. Here was his reply...
Dude.... you must be a dealer competing with our car. You don't have clue what you are talking about. Trim Tag not real???? are you serious. Just because we sanded the paint off so you could actually read the numbers??? not Real?? where are you coming from. I love the way clowns like you hide behind your anominity of the internet... why don't you send me phone number along with your real name if you have one. You won't because you are a dealer with a fake car that you are trying to sell. What the heck is wrong with people like you. We have had one of the top Camaro guys in the Country look at this car and checked out everything including all the numbers. You are the only fake on here. Come on dude... put up or shut up. You won't though because you are a clown act.
- smithird
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Same thing happened to me. I mentioned that I don't think the block should have a step up on the front pad. Or this or that. I didn't give him everything. Here was his reply...
Dude.... you must be a dealer competing with our car. You don't have clue what you are talking about. Trim Tag not real???? are you serious. Just because we sanded the paint off so you could actually read the numbers??? not Real?? where are you coming from. I love the way clowns like you hide behind your anominity of the internet... why don't you send me phone number along with your real name if you have one. You won't because you are a dealer with a fake car that you are trying to sell. What the heck is wrong with people like you. We have had one of the top Camaro guys in the Country look at this car and checked out everything including all the numbers. You are the only fake on here. Come on dude... put up or shut up. You won't though because you are a clown act.
- smithird
He must be a politician.
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Yup he's a pretty slick talker.
Danny, A friend summed the pad up this way; "Numbers/letters are not consistant with others I've seen". In addition, I have never seen a step up or two tier pad. But this guy is good. Some how he managed to throw in some broach marks and even age the deck. This is what keeps me doing a double take. The only thing I can figure is he added acid.
Does anyone know if decks were ever stamped at the factory in error? If so, what process was used to correct it. I would have to assume given the amount of cars produced that this might have occurred more than once. Or, is this one of those...if you told me would you'd have to kill me ???.
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<<Does anyone know if decks were ever stamped at the factory in error? If so, what process was used to correct it.>>
Yes. When a pad was mis-stamped or the engine plant needed to convert one suffix type to another, they used a 4" air-powered grinder across the original stamp, and re-stamped the entire code. Photo of a typical engine plant grind-out pad below.
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Wow! This is the first time my hands started shacking on the mouse. Great pic John...Thanx!
Pretty much sums up this "Holy Grail Z".
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Has anybody asked who his expert is, by name? At this point he is aware that this car has problems and is still standing firm, It seems time for law enforcment to get involved.
VT
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Btw, the VIN is 124379N622271.
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well I received the following reply:
If you want to put your money where your rediculous mouth is we will be more than happy to take any bet.
- smithird
Ken...I'd say he's offerring you some pocket change...I'd take smit turd on!
...Excellent point Kurt. Infact, now that I look at his E-pad, it looks like he carved it out with a pocket knife.
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Here's another what is to be believed as a factory grind out and re-stamp
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Just goes to further prove the fact that shiny parts trump originality [price wise]every time.
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It seems the price had just dropped 10K!! The auction just ended and STILL no bids. How could this be?? ha ha..... I am of course still learning but come on. Even "I" thought there was about 20 or 25 things incorrect. Oh well, we'll have to watch and see..... Danny
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That is my name on the protecto plate. How crazy is that.
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depends on if the car was ever yours, or they just picked your name out of an old phone book when fabricating the POP :)
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Car was never mine, just funny to see my name on the POP, an all too perfect looking one at that.
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That is my name on the protecto plate. How crazy is that.
Sounds like a golden opportunity to give the seller a taste of his own medicine.
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Ya, I want my car back. It was stolen years ago.
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Ya, I want my car back. It was stolen years ago.
Too funny! You are right I should play that card just to blow his mind. A good scare might be just what the doctor ordered!
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LOL now that would be worth some change to see happen.