CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: TooManyReels on May 27, 2011, 01:54:39 AM
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Man am I ticked off...I just bought and installed a new GM OER steering wheel shroud and the silver trim is coming off..Am I to assume that they came this was from the factory painted silver not coated somehow, or is this just what we are getting these days with OER parts....If I need to paint it what color and type of paint would you recommend for repainting the silver stripping on the shroud....
Eddie
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Eddie, I heard of some people using silver tape instead of paint. I believe it's posted here somewhere.
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I am very curious to learn more about the silver tape. I too have a few places where this application sounds like the ticket. Any idea where this post is John? I did a search and came up empty.
Eddy if you are looking for a quick fix this sounds like a good alternative. However, if you are not in a hurry I'd send the D%#@ thing back...
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Hobby Lobby has silver paint pens that work well also. A friend told me about them and he swears by it.
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Sweet... ;D.
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I did a search and couldn't find the posting either. My have been on another site. Sounds like the silver pen would work.
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Thanks for looking...I don't know about this Daniel. One of these days we'll get all those tricks out of his sleeve... ;D
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I looked too and could not find anything..One of your comments led me to think about if the site Administrators would consider adding a section that could be "Tricks of The Trade" or "The Watch Out"......This would be a great addition to the site where people could go an post or find out things that others have developed or run into for solving some stubborn problems..
Had I know this was painted I would have never attempted to clean it...
Eddie
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I gave the Hobby Lobby stuff a try and your friend was right Daniel...Thanks!
I picked up a "Calligraphy" 3.66mm" felt tip metallic paint pen. It is very easy to use (instead of the brush pen they sell) for us old guys with shaky hands. although it might be hard to tell from the pics...it is pretty much dead on...
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More pics...before & after.
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That's dead on ain't it? Any way it looks real good in the pic. Marty does it look that good up close? He tried to get me to restore my cluster and I was but I found an NOS GM piece.
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All I can say is that I have looked at it real close and in different light and I don't think there is anything out there that will work better than this stuff. Its a dead on match.
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Marty, big difference in the before and after pictures.
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Instead of using the silver paint, which looks nothing like the original chrome look here is what I did and it came out very nice. You can use a silver mylar tape or metalized insulation tape. Call it Hillbilly chrome but it does work. This is the chrome metal tape used to put fiberglass ductwork together. If there is printing on the chrome side of the tape, it comes off with lacquer thinner and leaves you with just the chrome looking metal tape. Either tape will work. There are two ways to do this. You can either cut the strips to the exact size you need and then install them on the raised area or do like I did it and cut small strips that are slightly wider than needed, stick them on the raised area of the shroud and carefully trim the edges with an exacto knife. It will certainly take some time and you have to be careful, but with patience, will look way better than silver paint or the OER junk. The best part is it costs about $10 - $15 Plus, once you buy the roll, you have more than enough tape to do the gauge lens, the grooves in the shifter, custom chrome stripes on your car, and lots of other parts. Just don't get too carried away.
Hope this solves your problem.
Here are samples of the tape:
http://www.amazon.com/CS-Hyde-Metalized-Acrylic-Adhesive/dp/B003HKRFA8
http://www.amazon.com/JVCC-MPF-01-Metalized-Polyester-Reflective/dp/B00424T6J6/ref=pd_sbs_indust_2
http://www.amazon.com/EcoFoil-Foil-Adhesive-Insulation-Tape/dp/B003XFO0NM/ref=pd_sbs_indust_5
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Marty, big difference in the before and after pictures.
Well...I was sending you a message to tell you how good it looks until as they say...I was tree'd. I was also going to tell you that it really came in handy to touch up the "LIGHTS & WASHER WIPER" raised letters. And...I was also going to say that it matched all of my trim for the exception of the A/C / Astro vents that appear to be chrome. So I guess I won't. Oh well...I still think this "junk" looks good, at least for now...
Any way...this might be the tape you had mentioned earlier?
Thanks John
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Dang Marty I am so sorry I caused you to mess up your cluster. I should have known this old redneck hick didn't know what he was talking about. I feel so bad. Do you think it can be removed without more damage? Then maybe you can put some tape on it. You might check with Hobby Lobby for a solvent to get this junk off without screwing things up any worse. Let me know how it turns out. If it ruined it I might be able to chip in a little for a replacement cause I know how much you love your car.
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WHAT??? Dan...I wouldn't have said I liked it unless I meant it. Infact, evidently the last guy that restored the car used something similar or 40+ years of rubbing has dulled the surface. No one in my neck of the woods will ever know the difference, and there isn't anything close to the Legends in my corner of the world. This is not to say I won't someday head out to the Eastern US to attend a real show. God willing by then I'll hit the lottery and get the car done up right. At any rate there is no reason why the tape can't be placed right over the top of it. :)
Sincerely....thanks for the tip. I am very happy with it.
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I used the same stuff as you Marty,seemed to work pretty well.Im not sure but was the trim around the instruments chrome or just silver?? Looked silver to me except the AC vents. I had thought about using the chrome tape but are there rolls wide enough to cover say,the speedo guage,? What I mean by that if the rolls are not wide enough to cover the gauge then if you just cut some strips & then take the excess off with a razor wont you have to overlap the foil & would that be noticable ???
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Took the words right out of my mouth! I don't think my instrument cluster has ever been touched. I am no expert but I would like some kind of verification that all instrument cluster accents were chromed. In addition, the first thing that came to mind with the tape are the unavoidable seams ???
Thanks for pointing this out.
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The silver/chrome is performed using a vacuum metalizing process. Many refer to it as plastic chroming. I've had this done and then simply masked the chrome and painted the black myself. Companies will completely refurbish the parts as well. I've also used real silver leaf which first requires the application of size. Silver leaf is now available with an adhesive backing. Leaf's brilliance is unmatched by any silver hobby pen. An alternative to the chrome tape's width limitations is chrome vinyl used in the sign and graphics business. It comes in wide rolls to be fed into a plotter cutter. It can be cut to any width and shape and is a superior product. There are grades of vinyl in the business. If you want to manipulate the dimensions and radii, the system can produce them exactly, just like any graphics. The original silver loses it's brilliance over time, so the hobby pens are adequate for touch ups. But silver leaf produces a better result, especially if the bezel's silver is not badly worn and faded.
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Silver leaf and chrome vinyl sound like excellent choices for do-it-yourself applications. Your explanation is excellent and much appreciated!
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Did you pick this up at a hobby shop?
Eddie
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I found a thread on this topic (silver leaf) and for the life of me...I can't find it now. I am almost positive the post indicated it can be found at Michael's. I'm guessing it can be found at just about any reputable arts & crafts store.
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You can get leaf from any number of places. Michael's and Amazon (Mona Lisa brand) has it, Jerry's Artorama, Dick Blick. Coast Airbrush, The Gold Leaf Company, or any sign supplier. There are plenty more sources. The Mona Lisa sizing pen is not that great. Quality sizing, whether fast or slow, produces the best results and makes application easier. I've done quite a bit of leafing on carved signs, firetrucks and other vehicles. You'll most likely never use a whole book of leaf and can of size in your lifetime if just doing touchups.
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Here's the other self adhesive product of which I was speaking. I have never used it. http://www.houseofhobbies.com/baremetalfoil.html
And Sally Hansen's Pure Chrome #01 was recommended but again, I have never been inclined to try it. It's discontinued and you have to hunt but it's out there. Might not be any different that a silver pen many use. Products for everything are available, you just have to investigate.
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Scott,
Somehow the A/C vents in my car have retained their chrome appearance and the rest of the instrument clusters highlights have not. I am sure there are countless reasons for one area to fade out quicker than others, but is there a possibility that these areas, now silver were never highlighted in chrome? This is something that Jack questioned earlier and now I have concerns here as well. Please shed some light on the topic.
Thanks
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Marty I have saw different kinds of interior parts where the "chrome" peels off. After it starts turning loose you can get it with your fingers and pull all of it off in strips, bits, and pieces. The cluster edges like you did with that junk does not have an application like that. I think it just fades away with years of cleaning and "Arm All" or similar interior dressing. I might be wrong again but it looks like if it were tape or something like that it would peel if it started wearing thin in heavy use places.
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Well...I am going to have to go with my instincts and say that all of the interior instrument cluster highlights were done in chrome. Here's why; I took a closer look and the A/C Vents, Light/Wiper, Vents, Radio and...if you take a look at the before and after of the control bezel you can see that it was flaking off in sections (just like you mentioned) and they all seem to be chrome. Someone must have touched up the speedo & fuel with the same stuff I used. This is what threw me...
I am not sure how this was applied at the factory, but I would assume the entire cluster was bathed in this chrome solution and painted black after the fact. This is basically the same process Scott mentioned (vacuum me-talizing process). I am sure this would give the best results but at this stage of the game I am looking for something that will work w/o having to pull the entire cluster. I am not ready to have a "take-down" restoration.
Scott also gave some great information on product types. I am leaning towards the silver leaf...problem is, the other link from the House of Hobbies looks very interesting as well.
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Today, I stopped by a national store chain called Michael's. They had a product called Metallic Artist Tape and it come in a three color packet, (2) ea. Gold, Argent, and Black 1/8" wide 324" long...The company name is called the C-thru Ruler Company..www.cthruruler.com...This one was about $18.00...I'm thinking this one is not going to work all that well...It will have to be trimmed and that does not look to be too easy, even with a very sharp ex-zacto nife..
I also picked up an Testors Enamel pin marker, Argent in Color from my local hobby shop. This pin sold for about $5.00...
Here are three photos. The first photo showing the left side of the shroud is what it looked like before. The second one is with the outer right horn button done, and the last one is with half of it painted with the Argent color pin...I think I'm going with the pin and forget tryng to trim the chrome tape...A very nice touch-up...Thanks for the recommendations for these products...
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w41/Esells7616/100_0680.jpg)
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w41/Esells7616/100_0682.jpg)
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w41/Esells7616/100_0682.jpg)
Eddie
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It looks nice Eddie.
I am going to try the silver leaf. It seems to be a good alternative to chrome (same mirror like shine). I also took a closer look at the House of Hobbies. I was pretty impressed until I blew up the image. Either those guys don't know how to apply the stuff or it just wrinkles up everwhere.
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The size has to dry for the correct time prior to leaf application. It can't be tacky at all, it must be almost dry. If you lay leaf on wet size the finish is substandard. The appearance is also defined by how the size is applied, so precise control is required. Do not get size anywhere you don't want leaf and don't pour it on. I have enough fast size to last my lifetime. I'll give you some to try. Mix it with a little silver or gray paint to provide better coverage if a spot is missed or wears off. Adding too much pigment affects size performance. It's not difficult. I'm sure there are many sites to show correct leafing procedures. If you can find someone in your area who actually knows how to do it, they will most likely give you some size and a crash course too.
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You are correct, there are a lot of sites on the topic. However, no one mentioned how tricky the size is to apply. Appreciate the advise. Also, is it correct to assume that multiple layers is a no no?
Since there is so much of the leaf & size I will test it out on something else until until I get the hang of it. And...I think I will pull the shroud and cluster. I can't see good results with this any other way.
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Marty, if you do use the lief product please post your results and challenges if any in applying it....I would like to see how it turns out...I looked and the rest of my trim and it all looks pretty good for now. I'm going to use the silver paint stick on the shroud for now..I put one coat on the other night and I will apply another this w/e..
Eddie
TMR
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I hate to keep beating a dead horse on this topic, but the steering shroud bright trim should be silver paint, and not chrome like the repros that are out there now.
I have an nos shroud from a box dated 1971, and the trim is silver paint.......
I'm pretty sure this topic has been talked about at length on this site....
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OK, so its been discussed. The last time I checked this was a forum for discussing various camaro topics and to learn from others. I started this post when I asked a question if it was chrome or painted from the factory, something I did not know....As stated earlier, I ordered a replacement OER shroud and when I installed it and wiped it off the Silver paint came off right away...
I was quite surprised and ticked off that this happened. I know back in the day we did not have the cleaning products that we have today to clean our cars with..I'm quite sure the shroud on my camaro is the original one based on my knowledge of the cars history. I've cleaned several times and the paint has not come off like the replacement OER shroud...When I called the shop that I got this from, I got the answer only I must always get "Oh !!! this has never happened before" bull C$%^. I should have done what Marty recommended to begin with and shipped it right back to the dealer and bought from someone else...By posting this here and getting the answers that I got from this site, it saved me from sending it back to only get the same problem from another vendor...
Eddie
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Eddie,
You can blame this one on me. I should have started another thread. Your concern was specific to the shroud. I had assumed all the highlights would be consistant through out. I clouded the issue by switching the conversation to include the cluster.
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Marty,
No need to apologize for providing valued in-site in helping others with similar problems. I thank you for assisting myself and other members with their questions or problems..
Eddie
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Marty, if you do use the lief product please post your results and challenges if any in applying it.
Eddie
TMR
This was exactly what I intended to do. I think I'll give this topic a rest because to be quite honest with you...I'm more confused than ever... :-\
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Give it a rest...ya right. You know me better than that by now. Call me a dead horse or whatever. I can rest until I'm comfortable with what's correct or what isn't.
In this CRG Report; http://www.camaros.org/swheel.shtml#69, the "1969 Standard Wheel W/RS Emblem" (Blown up) clearly shows the instrument shroud highlighted in chrome. Its difficult for me to tell what finish the steering wheel shroud highlights are. The green SW pic next to it seems to show indications of chrome?
If camaronut is correct is the pic below the silver he is alluding to which looks very simular to Eddie's? Although you cannot tell from the pic, there is a distinct difference between the chrome "SS" emblem and the highlights .
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Marty, after reviewing the attached link, http://www.camaros.org/swheel.shtml#69, I believe that the RS and SS steering wheels came with the painted trim as depicted..
The photo of the 69 RS steering wheel in the center of the first row, looks like an OER part since it has molded dimples to the left and right sides of the horn buttons...Not positive about this, but my original shroud and many of the other ones on this page are smooth so this leads me to beleive them to be original and the OER to have the dimples.
Eddie
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Interesting observation & nice spot...dimples (although I have never paid much attention...but I will now). You may be on to something with the RS & SS wheels being different than the standard bow-tie. Even more interesting because this is exactly what has me confused. There is a pic of a bow-tie steering wheel in the 69 Camaro brochure. Even though the pic is small, it still looks chromed. Also, if you look at the upper left pic in John's report it too looks chromed.
John's report also shows several variations of the 69 SW so I don't think the answer is as simple as everyone thinks? Some appear to be chromed, some painted silver, & some painted to match the interior. I sent someone an email. Hopefully he can shed some light on the topic. If anyone knows, it would be him...
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Here's a photo of NOS item that may be of help.
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This "Dead Horse" can finally rest in peace. My apology's for ever doubting you camaronut.
It isn't very often that I will stick my neck out on anything First Gen, but I received the email I was hoping for last night. I can now say with 99.9% certainty that the standard SS steering wheel came silver highlighted from the factory. The color of choice from one of the most highly respected authorities in the country is Argent Silver.
Eddie, you were right from the get-go.
Thanx for everyones help.
BTW...great pic, thanx for sharing lugnut69
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I do like the highly polish shine and red wood finish on lugnut69 shroud...Very Nice !!!...Marty, I feel we have done our home work here in getting to how the steering wheel shrouds came from the factory,,,I'm satisfied with how mine came out, so I'm going to put this to rest...Thank's for all the input and feed back.
Eddie
TMR
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Fisrt of all I wasn't trying to dis anyone on this thread......sorry if that's how it was taken.
Alot of us take what we buy from the repro parts companies are dead-nuts correct. Unfortunately, that's not always the case.
The steering shroud from OER is one of those examples.
Unfortunately, it's the only thing out there unless your fortunate enough to find an original / NOS GM shroud that doesn't cost an arm & leg.
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I do like the highly polish shine and red wood finish on lugnut69 shroud...Very Nice !!!...Marty, I feel we have done our home work here in getting to how the steering wheel shrouds came from the factory,,,I'm satisfied with how mine came out, so I'm going to put this to rest...Thank's for all the input and feed back.
Eddie
TMR
What did you end up using Eddie? The paint pen or tape?
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Ken Lucas was generous enough to let me share these pics...Thanks Ken!
If you decide to use the tape it would only be applied to the cluster...chrome. The steering wheel shroud isn't chrome.
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I used the same paint sticks that was posted by IZRSSS ..I found the paint stick at a local Hobby Shop...It worked great...
Eddie