CRG Discussion Forum

Model Specific Discussions => Trans-Am Camaros => Topic started by: Jon Mello on March 30, 2011, 03:42:34 AM

Title: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 30, 2011, 03:42:34 AM
How about some 15x8" 5-spoke magnesium American mags direct from GM with the
original box crate they came in? Pretty doggone cool !

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Wheels010.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Wheels009.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Wheels012.jpg)
Photos: Gary Morgan Collection
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Bruce302 on March 30, 2011, 06:08:53 AM
That is something I haven't seen before. Surely very telling that they came in a wooden box. they were taking race parts very seriously.

Are thes still NOS ?

Bruce.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: cuda48 on March 31, 2011, 01:40:47 AM
Those are really cool to look at, especially in the box with the original labels.  I don't know if I'd want to run on them though. 

Mike
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 31, 2011, 03:16:57 AM
I think Gary used them and they are not NOS but I have asked and will let you know.

Yes, these are truly very cool to look at but magnesium gets brittle with age. I've seen people race with these 40+ year old mags but it might not be the wisest thing to do.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 31, 2011, 03:40:08 AM
15x8" magnesium version of the American 200-S, sometimes referred to as the "Daisy" mag. This mag first came out in time for the start of the '69 Trans-Am season and was primarily being used by the factory-backed Boss 302 Mustangs but they quickly switched to Minilites. Others who used the 200-S for at least part of the season were Craig Fisher in a '69 Camaro and Bob Tullius in a Javelin.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Firestone1.jpg)
Photo by Lance Smith
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: beighes on March 31, 2011, 06:25:22 PM
Those are really cool to look at, especially in the box with the original labels.  I don't know if I'd want to run on them though. 
Mike

Mike..........We ran the original magnesium wheels on the SFR SCCA/A Sedan that I crewed on.  Started out with many.  By the time we went to GT1 & needed 10" rims, the Americans were only good for show.

Steve
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: cuda48 on March 31, 2011, 06:47:38 PM
Can you guys answer a question for me?  I was told that in the name of the wheel American 200S, the S stands for Shelby...is that true? 

Mike Camicia
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: beighes on March 31, 2011, 08:51:36 PM
Mike,

Ask & ye shall find...............or at the least, get an answer.  Follow this link & scroll down the page:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HgPBnQOIELEJ:www.roadsters.com/wheels/+history+of+American+Racing+Wheels+Daisy+200S&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com

Cheers!
Steve
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: cuda48 on March 31, 2011, 09:19:26 PM
Thanks for the link Steve.
  I thought that it didn't stand for Shelby...heck he would have had his name all over it and sued folks for copying it if it had been his.  Ironically he DID copy it for his own wheel company many years ago. 
The story with the 200-S wheels is that they would break under severe loading on the fronts and this cost Ford a couple of races.  They switched to Minilites and the problem was gone.  If you look around you'll find some photos of the 69' Bud Moore cars with Minilites on the fronts with the 200-S's on the rears.  Later they ran Minilites all around and stuck with them for 1970.  I've heard that Mark Donohue knew that the Minilites were a stronger and proven wheel so he ran them starting in 69'. For 1970 he tried to use only 4 lug nuts on the Javelin (faster pit stops) but the SCCA made him change them back to 5 lug.  Those very wheels are on a bunch of cars out there right now!  You can see where they plugged the lug holes and re-drilled em!

Mike
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: cuda48 on March 31, 2011, 09:24:18 PM
Like these
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: beighes on March 31, 2011, 10:24:11 PM
Mike..........I ran across a few of the plugged wheels.  I never knew about them until we took some Minilites to S&T Racing to have the steel inserts put in for the wheel nuts.  Then we heard the story. I don't know about the 200S wheels breaking.  However, we never had any of the "original" magnesium wheels fail.  With that said, I personally don't think that would have survived after we went to the 6 litre motor. 

Steve
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 31, 2011, 10:43:48 PM
I knew about Donohue running the 4-lug pattern for part of the '70 season but had not noticed any of these plugged Minilites being used on current vintage race cars. Cool picture. Thanks for posting it. The Bud Moore Mustangs did run the 200-S wheels on the front at Laguna Seca late in the '69 season so I'm not sure what they were thinking with regard to choosing between them and the Minilites.

As for the S in 200-S standing for Shelby, I never heard that story. However, the "Libre" wheel that was made by American Racing was kind of a junior 200-S but with 4-spokes instead of 5. These were meant for smaller cars like Datsuns, Triumphs, etc. Some of these "Libre" wheels had the name Shelby cast into them but these were Shelby copies of the American Libre wheel. Just taking a wild guess, it could be that some people have seen the Shelby name on these 4-spoke wheels and somehow associated it with the 200-S.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Libremag.jpg)
Libre mag wheel
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Ron C. on April 01, 2011, 12:56:56 AM
what was the common race wheel for the 67/68 camaros? I was thinking of takeing the redlines off Jon and getting tourqe thrusts for my 67Z.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 01, 2011, 03:57:09 AM
Ron, it is the 5-spoke Torq-Thrust D if you are wanting to replicate the look of the car for the first few years of the Trans-Am series. Not the current wheel that American calls the Torq-Thrust D but the vintage one. The Minilite probably became the more popular wheel by the early '70s. I even think the 200-S looks good on these cars but it was not as popular as the other two. There were some others also and they will get posted eventually. I can help you find a set of authentic Torq-Thrust D's if you want but they are a fairy expensive wheel. PS Engineering also offers a reproduction version.

Getting back to vintage magnesium Torq-Thrusts still in action, here are some that are owned by Ken Epsman and in use on Walt Boeninger's '67 Trans-Am Mustang. These are originals from the Bud Moore Cougar team. Notice the date stamp of 8 67.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/BudMoorewheel-1.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/BudMoore-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: cuda48 on April 01, 2011, 03:11:50 PM
I was gonna say those are Walt's!  It was common for the teams to mark their wheels, like the Cougar team.  Dan Gurney's had AAR and a number for the set # stamped on them.  Then there were some cheater sets.  There were some 9 inch wide wheels that mixed into the bunch.  Remember the rules stated 8 inches as the maximum width. I believe the 9 inchers were were found to be Javelin wheels.  Hmmmm

Mike
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: beighes on April 01, 2011, 05:49:20 PM
I'm glad that the photos of the Cougar wheels were posted.  It reminded me that I have some of the extra long wheel nuts tucked away.........like 2 or 3 car sets.  Note to self....find them!

Steve
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 02, 2011, 10:44:15 PM
Hello Mike,

I have a set of the cheater 15" X 9" magnesium Torq-Thrust "D" wheels that are on the back of my '66 Shelby B-Production car.  The outside wheel lip looks like a standard 7" or 8" wheel, but the extra width is all on the in-board side.  Since I don't run the car with vintage racing orgs, I've not felt the need to put the car back to a legal wheel width.

My cheater wheels are stamped/dated 6  67  (June '67) on the center cap mounting flange.  The previous owner of my Shelby said that he bought them from Bud Moore, but I have no way to confirm that.

I can take a picture when I get to the car, if others are interested.  They are 4 on 4 1/2" bolt pattern, so perhaps they're not as interesting or appropriate to a first gen Camaro forum.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 03, 2011, 05:48:13 AM
I believe the best real magnesium wheels being made for early Trans-Am era cars come from Ray Frankin at Vintage Engineering.  Ray's Torq-Thrust and Minilite style wheels are incredibly accurate, and the raw material and casting quality is the best I've seen.

I have an unused set of original magnesium Minilites that have never been without paint, and have never seen rain or moisture.  The casting quality of these original Minilites is nice, but the Vintage Engineering wheels have a much tighter "grain."  I guess others might describe the Vintage Engineering wheels as having much less visible porosity.

I've attached a picture of one of Ray's wheels in bare magnesium, though treated with DOW 7.  I wish I could post a larger image size to this forum, because a higher resolution would better illustrate the quality of the casting.

Vintage Engineering's site, and much of their other efforts with McLaren and Lola castings and parts can be seen here:

  http://vintageeng.com/MagWheelsProduct.html

Ray doesn't feature his Trans-Am style wheels prominently on his site, but I'm sure he can provide you more detailed shots for those interested.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 03, 2011, 06:39:22 AM
Chad, Thanks for posting the pics of the Vintage Engineering Minilites and the link to the website. They sure look like high quality wheels.
Since you have posted full view pics of the front and back sides already, a similar sized photo zoomed in on a spoke or other suitable area
should give us a good feel for the grain or porosity of the metal. I'd love to see the cheater wheels on your Shelby and I bet others
would too.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: cuda48 on April 04, 2011, 01:07:36 PM
Those newer wheels look very nice Chad.  I didn't know you had a Shelby too!  That's really cool about the cheater wheels though.  What ever they could get away with at the time is how it went. That's why I love reading hearing the tales from back in the day.  I'm jealous of Robert Barg. That would have been so much fun mixing it up with the big boys!

Camicia
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 06, 2011, 04:14:18 AM
Hello Mike and Jon,

Here are a couple pictures of my "cheater" 15 X 9 magnesium Torq-Thrust "D" wheels.  These are on the rear of my 1966 Shelby B-Production race car.  I only post these to a Camaro forum because Jon asked for them.

The measurement from the outboard center cap mounting flange to the outer lip is ~1 1/2".  The backspacing on these rims is ~5 1/2". 

The tires are Goodyear Blue Streak Sportscar Specials 6.00-15 that were generally available to vintage racers about 10 years ago.  I point the size of tire out because I'll later post a picture of the front wheels with the same size tire. 

These rear wheels would be illegal to run in west coast HMSA or General Racing events.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 06, 2011, 04:30:14 AM
Hello Mike and Jon,

Here is a picture of the 15 X 7 magnesium Torq-Thrust "D" wheels on the front of my 1966 Shelby B-Production race car.  Again, I only post these to a Camaro forum because Jon asked for them, and they help show what's cheater about the previously posted 15 X 9 wheels.

The backspacing on this rim is ~3 1/2".  The measurement from the outboard center cap mounting flange to the outer lip is ~1 1/2".   If you compare measurements, you'll see that the outboard wheel "lip" is roughly identical to the cheater 15 X 9 wheels noted and pictured above, but the back spacing is roughly 2" less. 

The tires are Goodyear Blue Streak Sports Car Specials, size 6.00-15.  These tires are the same as what's shown on the cheater 15 X 9 wheels above.  You should be able to see more of a tire sidewall bulge with these tires mounted on this narrower wheel.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 06, 2011, 05:05:13 AM
Hello Jon,

On the Vintage Engineering Minilite style magnesium wheel, Ray still makes the casting with "texture" in the spokes (front and back).  If the spokes didn't have this, they just wouldn't look right.

Where you can really see the casting quality difference is in the machined areas.  I'm no metallurgist, but you can visibly see that the grain of the material is much tighter, without the porosity, or small air pocket voids that are visible here and there in both my used and unused original magnesium Minilites.

The picture of the wheel backside on the DOW 7 treated magnesium Minilite style wheels I posted above, specifically the machined hub mounting flange, best shows the casting and material quality I'm trying to point out with the Vintage Engineering wheels. 

Ray Franklin of Vintage Engineering was even careful to copy the slight machining of the outboard casted flats near the wheel lip for me.  Though not all original Minilites were finish machined this way, the original sets I have were, and I wanted these new wheels finished to match.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: cuda48 on April 06, 2011, 03:41:26 PM
You know Chad, I have to laugh because it seems to me that the Tech Inspectors could take a tape measure and easily see that one wheel is an 8 incher and the other a 9, but I guess if you took a quick look and they appeared to be the same you wouldn't notice...except maybe the tire sidewall bulge...but folks were trying different tires all the time so who knows?
I've seen a cheater Javelin Minilite in person, same deal, looked identical from the outside, just wider.

You have to laugh,
Mike Camicia
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 06, 2011, 10:42:05 PM
Hello Mike,

I agree with your assessment of how easily these wheels could be noticed by a tech inspector.  Though I know next to nothing of the old SCCA Trans-Am tech inspection process, and I'm not sure these wheels were ever used in competition, perhaps it would have been possible to never let the tech inspectors see them up close.  In other words, stash them in the trailer, and only use the cheater wheels:

 
Here are a couple more pictures of the wheels off the car.  Again, these wheels are both running the exact same tire.

Perhaps Mr. Barg can tell us if he believes they would have been possible to get these by an SCCA Trans-Am tech inspector.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: beighes on April 06, 2011, 11:14:32 PM
Chad...The difference between the 7's & 9's is obvious.  Fit that tyre on an 8 inch rim, & it may not look too bad.  When I was involved with A-Sedans, I (much later) found that a couple of the fast drivers ran 9 inch wheels, only at selected events.   Even ran large motors, but that's for another thread.

I can't speak for early SCCA scrutineering, but I can pass on a mid-70's experience.  We were at Laguna Seca for a T/A event, with a car that had been, also, running IMSA.  The SCCA official (whose name escapes me now) went up to the driver, exchanged greetings, etc., then merely pointed to the left rear corner & said, "Just cover up the Camel decals, & you're set." 

Question for anyone, "Any truth to the story that in the early days of T/A (when post race weigh-ins included a spare tyre) Penske tossed in a water filled tyre?"  Robert Barg, where are you ?.....yes, I followed you here from TNF!

Cheers,
Steve
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: oldtransamdriver on April 07, 2011, 02:37:34 AM
Hi Steve,

I don't remember much about "cheater" wheels being used.  We were too busy to look at all the other racer wheels.  Our team used the 8 x 15 wheels, originally steel, then some Torque Thrusts.  The tire guys would have supplied the same size tire to all.

I think Timanus and company were probably too busy trying to find other "cheater" tricks.  He had his hands full with the factory guys, and probably didn't pay much attention to us privateer guys.

I have acquired a set of used Torque Thrusts that measure  15 x 8.5  Has anyone seen these before?  They were to be used on a 67 camaro T/A replica project by a friend of mine.  We have acquired a donor street car and some engine and tranny parts, but he has been taken ill and the project has been stalled, maybe for good.  The idea was to replicate just what I drove, not a fancy "modernized" vintage racer you see today.

Robert Barg
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 07, 2011, 02:22:42 PM
Chad, really great photos and info. Thank you for taking the time and posting that. Does the total height (diameter) of the tire change much between the 7" and 9" wheel?

I saw a race report for the '67 Las Vegas Trans-Am which was very late in the racing season and the Bud Moore Cougars were shredding their tires on the leaf springs and having to make multiple pit stops. They said it was due to running larger rear tires than everybody else but it may have been due to thte usage of these wheels instead or a combination of both.

Steve, I have not heard of Penske doing that but have heard of Bud Moore putting water filled tires on his car for post race inspection. Something about a cement or lead filled helmet tossed in at the last second also.

Robert, the 15 x 8.5" American mags are not hard to find in the aluminum "straight spoke" design. In magnesium or with the original "D-spoke" design, I don't think I have seen or heard of one in that width. I'd love to see you with a replica of your old car someday.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 07, 2011, 06:19:53 PM
Hello Jon,

With 30lbs of air pressure each, and sitting on the ground with the weight of the car, the tire diameter was measured as:


Again, both wheels using Goodyear Blue Streak Sports Car Specials (vintage race tires).

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: maroman on April 07, 2011, 08:07:17 PM
Not sure how others on this forum feel about all this modified raceing talk, but THANKS. Trans Am and Cam Am were my main interest in life in late 60's early 70's. You guys are making me remember lots of good stuff. Still have my first edition Chevrolt Racing? and still reread parts from time to time. A truley great time in raceing history, when there was still wiggle room in the rule book for interpretation. Thanks for starting all this!!
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: cuda48 on April 08, 2011, 02:54:08 AM
Chad,
 That is an amazing photo showing the differences when mounting the same size tire on two different size rims! That is really hard to believe. Wow.

Mike
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 08, 2011, 01:38:09 PM
Below are two 15x7" aluminum '60s era "D-spoke" mags. The wheel lips are different. The top one is definitely an American Racing
wheel as it says so on the back side. Who was the manufacturer of the one on the bottom? Were magnesium versions made in
both styles? Chad, from looking at the photos of your wheels, it looks like the 15x7" front wheels have the lip like what I have in
the bottom photo and the cheater 15x9" wheels have the true American-style lip. I don't think I had previously seen that on a real
magnesium D-spoke. I guess I'm wondering if somebody besides American Racing was making a magnesium D-spoke wheel. I have
heard no magnesium wheel has the American Racing script on the back side.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/wheellip1.jpg)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/wheellip2.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 08, 2011, 03:53:06 PM
Hello Jon,

I don't know the answer to your question.  There will surely be someone that visits this forum that does.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Sixteen Grand Sedan #56 on April 10, 2011, 06:24:46 AM
Hi Steve,

I have acquired a set of used Torque Thrusts that measure  15 x 8.5  Has anyone seen these before?  They were to be used on a 67 camaro T/A replica project by a friend of mine.  We have acquired a donor street car and some engine and tranny parts, but he has been taken ill and the project has been stalled, maybe for good.  The idea was to replicate just what I drove, not a fancy "modernized" vintage racer you see today.

Robert Barg

Robert

Are your wheels aluminum?

The 8.5 wide rims are common in the aluminum version of the Torque Thrusts wheel as well as the 200S version
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: oldtransamdriver on April 11, 2011, 02:29:29 AM
Not aluminum as far as I know - thought they were old style, but I don't have them - they are in storage with the old camaro project in Chehalis WA that we have now listed for sale.

Robert Barg
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 13, 2011, 10:31:46 PM
Here's another magnesium wheel made by American Racing in a squared off 6-spoke design.
I think this wheel may have come out in 1971. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. This wheel
was discontinued rather quickly from what I understand. I believe it may have been too easily
prone to cracking and breaking. If somebody has a better photo of one, please post it. This
particular mag is on a '68 Trans-Am Camaro once raced by Stan Bennett from the Pacific NW.
Stan had purchased it from a guy who had been Trans-Am racing it on the East Coast previously.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/6spokemag.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 13, 2011, 11:43:37 PM
Hello Jon,

I've had a couple knowledgeable folks refer to these wheels you show on the Stan Bennett Camaro as the American Racing "TA 70" wheel.  Some of the following cars ran/run them (with links to each car where more pictures of the wheels can be seen):


-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 14, 2011, 03:15:02 AM
Another forum member noted that he could not view the link above to the Mike Folsom '70 Boss 302, now owned and run by Craig Conley.  Here is a link that shows multiple pictures of this car running both Minilites and the American Racing 6-spoke "TA 70" wheels.

http://www.historictransam.com/Drivers/CraigConley.htm

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 14, 2011, 03:19:04 PM
Thanks for those links, Chad. Below is a photo of the Jim Dodd Camaro at the St. Jovite
Trans-Am in July, 1970. This is the same Camaro that was sold to Stan Bennett, seen above.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/JimDodd1970StJoviteTA.jpg)
Photo by Yves St. Jean at www.autocourse.ca
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: cuda48 on April 14, 2011, 11:29:34 PM
Guys,
I thought that style of wheel was made by  the Motor Wheel Company.

Camicia
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 15, 2011, 01:30:41 AM
Hello Mike,

The Motor Wheel Company "Spyder" has a similar look, but is definitely different than the American Racing 6-spoke ("TA 70") wheel noted above.  Here are a couple shots of the Motor Wheel Company "Spyder."


-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 15, 2011, 12:52:10 PM
The Motor Wheel Spyder was one I had planned to put up. I'm not sure what year that
first became available but I don't recall seeing them on Trans-Am cars until about 1971.

Here's a super rare wheel, seen on the Vick Campbell Camaro at Sebring in 1967. It was
manufacturered by Creitz, who also made other performance equipment such as intake
manifolds.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Creitzwheel.jpg)
Photo by Craig Fisher

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Creitzmagwheels.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: cuda48 on April 15, 2011, 08:00:56 PM
See...You can learn something new just by reading the comments on this forum.  All these years I thought those wheels were Motor Wheel variants and now I find out they were Americans!  Well I suppose they didn't make too many of em' because I've only seen a handful of cars with them.  I'd worry about them if they had a reputation for breaking.

  The other wheel you have to put up there Jon is the Cragar SS.  They sponsored Ron Grable and were used on Walt's Code Key Shelby...I'm sure some Camaro's too.

Camicia
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 15, 2011, 08:43:50 PM
Hello Mike,

Jon's note about the 6-spoke (TA 70) wheels being somewhat of a flawed design may well and truly be the case... but some folks feel differently:

A note from the BOSS302 forum, back in 2003, regarding the factory supported Mustangs use of wheels:


But these are all magnesium wheels we're speaking about.  Several factors can lead to their demise.  They're so darn light and trick, so many of us are willing to give them a shot.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 15, 2011, 10:40:43 PM
Chad,  You know, I don't know that for a fact about the "TA 70" wheel being prone to breakage. That's what I thought I remembered hearing about them but I may in fact be remembering the problems with the 200-S. Both wheels were made by American so that contributed to me making the declaration in the first place.

Mike,  I do remember the Cragars on the Dart and the Mustang so I agree they did actually get run in the T/A series by a small number of cars.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: rat pack on April 15, 2011, 10:41:09 PM
Jon, the other supplier of the "D" spoke wheel was Appliance. It was almost identical to the American TTD except for two areas: the machined lip as you have shown, and the lug nut washer recess. The Appliance wheels were machined deeper than the Americans.  Both of these wheels were only manufactured in two sizes: 15 x 6 and 15 x 7, no 8" D-spokes were made in aluminum originally. Excluding the one wheel shown above I have only seen one other 8-1/2" TTD in magnesium. The American wheels have a backspacing of 3-3/4" for both widths, and the Appliance 6" wheels have a 3-5/8" backspacing whereas the 7" wheels are the same as the Americans...............................RatPack...............

***I corrected my measurements as I had posted front side measurements instead of the backspacing. Thanks to a member on here for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: cuda48 on April 16, 2011, 02:00:36 AM
Here's a photo of the Dick Hoffman Camaro with a set of Motor Wheel Spyders on it

Camicia
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 16, 2011, 03:42:01 PM
Jon, the other supplier of the "D" spoke wheel was Appliance. It was almost identical to the American TTD except for two areas: the machined lip as you have shown, and the lug nut washer recess. The Appliance wheels were machined deeper than the Americans.  Both of these wheels were only manufactured in two sizes: 15 x 6 and 15 x 7, no 8" D-spokes were made in aluminum originally. Excluding the one wheel shown above I have only seen one other 8-1/2" TTD in magnesium. The 6" wheels each had different backspacing: American was 3-1/4" and the Appliance was 3-1/8". The 7" wheels from both manufacturers had 4-1/4" backspacing...............................RatPack...............

Thanks for the info, Troy. I will look for the backspace and machining differences on my pile of mags. I know for sure that they made an 8" wide magnesium D-spoke wheel as I owned one with a '67 or '68 date stamp on it and made the measurements personally. I had such a hard time finding even one more that I ended up selling the wheel to Chad. Hey Chad, do you still own that wheel?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 16, 2011, 03:50:47 PM
Here's a photo of the Dick Hoffman Camaro with a set of Motor Wheel Spyders on it

Camicia

Mike, besides the Milt Minter Firebird, the Hoffman Camaro was the other one I had remembered using the Spyder wheels. Others may have used them but those are two cars I remember using them for sure.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: rat pack on April 16, 2011, 04:30:08 PM
Jon, yeah they made the 8-1/2" D in magnesium but never in aluminum, and the picture of the wheel above is only the second 8-1/2" D that I have ever seen. They are rare as hens teeth..... As for the Motor Wheel Spyder, that wheel first appeared in 1969 and was made through 1972, but I have seen an NOS set with 1974 dates on the boxes. The magnesium version wasn't advertised except a couple times and I believe it was in either SS & DI or similar drag racing based magazine. Those were the only one-piece Spyders as the aluminum/steel versions were two piece. I went back through my vintage magazine ads and only found a slight reference to them being used outside of the drag race world and that was in 1970 which is when I believe the magnesium version was first produced. The ad shows a "road race" type of car but it mentions street or strip use in the text. Here are four different ads for the wheels from 69-72, and there is one more that I couldn't locate which had "Miss Muffet" with Roy Hill in it.....................RatPack....................

***Thanks everyone for posting up the many pics and "tricks" these SCCA guys used back in the day!!! Loving this section more and more.....

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j185/ratpack68/MotorWheelad_July1969.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j185/ratpack68/MotorWheelad_1970.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j185/ratpack68/MotorWheelad_1971.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j185/ratpack68/MotorWheelad_MissMuffet_1972_002.jpg)

Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 17, 2011, 04:05:39 PM
Troy,  Great stuff on the Motor Wheel Spyders. Thanks for posting that. The Torq-Thrusts were made in aluminum in 8 1/2" width. The SCCA, which ran the Trans-Am series was not allowing wheels wider than 8" in the years prior to 1973, even though we have shown a cheater version in a 9" width. A legal wheel had to be manufactured in 8" width or less and they definitely did make them in 8". An 8 1/2" D-spoke American in magnesium... I've never heard or seen such an animal. I'll have to get some photos of a real 8" one and post them.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 18, 2011, 12:20:07 AM
Hello Jon,

I still have the 15 X 8 magnesium Torq-Thrust you sold me.  I'll take a pic early next week, and get some measurements as well.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: rat pack on April 18, 2011, 04:49:10 PM
Jon, yes the regular Torq Thrusts were made in aluminum in the 8-1/2" widths (no such thing as an 8" Torq Thrust in aluminum), but the Torq Thrust "D" was never made in any width wider than 7" in aluminum.  The magnesium versions were offered in more widths, but only in 15" & 16" diameters. The regular Torq Thrust wheels would not clear disc brakes calipers on the Corvette w/o the use of a spacer so in 1965 American came out with the "D" (disc brakes) just for those applications. Then that wheel was sold to anyone with a 67-68 GM car that had disc brakes, along with any Mopar having them also. What is funny is that the modern version of the Torq Thrust "D" that came out in 1988 will not clear the GM 4-piston caliper disc brakes like the original wheel did................RatPack..................
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 18, 2011, 05:10:07 PM
Troy,  Thanks for the clarification. I agree that American never made the '60's era D-spoke in aluminum that were wider than 7". I've never seen or heard of any. Phil Schmidt of PS Engineering (http://www.psvintagewheels.com/products.html) can make new copies of them in aluminum in widths wider than 7". Here is one of a pair I had Phil make me in a 15 x 8" size. There are many guys using these in Historic Trans-Am (http://www.historictransam.com/AboutHTA.htm) racing. Phil also makes these in a 2-piece style, which is not authentic to the era but the look is similar and they don't cost quite as much.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/PS1.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/PS2.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 20, 2011, 03:34:08 AM
This little blurb from an issue of Competition Press/Autoweek covering the May 29, 1972 Bryar Trans-Am
discusses an underlying reason for the Milt Minter Firebird running the Motor Wheel Spyder wheels.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/bryarspyder.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 22, 2011, 09:51:33 PM
Hello Jon,

Here are some pics of the 15 X 8 Torq-Thrust "D" magnesium wheel that I acquired from you.  I also took measurements, for those that care:


More pics in the next post.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 22, 2011, 09:53:37 PM
Two more pictures of the 15 X 8 Torq-Thrust "D" magnesium wheel noted in my previous post.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on April 28, 2011, 05:30:24 PM
I asked a Ford and Mercury Trans-Am racing expert to comment on the 15" X 8", 5 on 5" American Racing Torq-Thrust "D" wheels posted above.  Here is the applicable feedback:

(In reference to them being used on the factory Mustangs) "Yes, they were used exclusively on the 1968 Trans-Am cars, on the front only.   The thinking was that the 5x5 bolt pattern would put less stress on the lug bolts during cornering.   The 5x5 also made it easy for the Ford teams to use the heavy duty Lincoln brake rotor for their front brake setups. 
 
This system and wheel were also used for the later races in 1967, and for pre-season testing in 1969.   The wheel was also used by the 1967 Cougar team and I have seen a few of these that actually have the word "Cougar" stamped on the hub. "


Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 28, 2011, 07:33:14 PM
Chad, Thanks for taking the initiative and finding out more history on that 5 on 5" wheel. You found out some great information that I hadn't previously known and now thanks to this forum others are being educated as well. Great job!
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on May 06, 2011, 01:51:49 AM
I did not have any luck finding a Trans-Am Camaro with Cragars on it but here are a couple of photos of Ron Grable's
Dart, which did use them. Also, the Bob Barker '67 Mustang used them.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Grable1.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Grable2.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: wolfmin on May 06, 2011, 01:34:25 PM
Here's a photo of the Dick Hoffman Camaro with a set of Motor Wheel Spyders on it

Camicia

Mike, besides the Milt Minter Firebird, the Hoffman Camaro was the other one I had remembered using the Spyder wheels. Others may have used them but those are two cars I remember using them for sure.

I believe the early 70s orange with green numbers Camaro driven by Walter Parkins and later David Jungerman had this type of wheel too.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on May 22, 2011, 05:45:46 AM
Another photo of some magnesium 6-spoke Americans along with some special captive Trans-Am lugnuts.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Frank/6-spokeAmericans.jpg)
Photo by Frank Dihartce
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on May 22, 2011, 04:06:31 PM
Hello Jon,

Those photos of Frank DiHartce's lugs remind me of a set of Minilites and lug nuts that Neil Karolek had/has.  He was kind enough to provide me a few up close images of these lug nuts in 2004.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on May 22, 2011, 04:08:22 PM
And one more shot of the lug nut and insert alone.

-Chad
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Swede70 on June 15, 2011, 05:01:58 PM
Short contrast of '69 Minilite w/raised outer rim lip detail to '70 and later wheels that seem to shed same.  

(http://images107.fotki.com/v160/photos/9/1203159/9001555/69TitusFirebirdMinilite-vi.jpg)
...Jerry Titus, perhaps MIS, '69 then.

(http://images15.fotki.com/v230/photos/9/1203159/9001555/GeorgeFollmeragain-vi.jpg)
...George Follmer, St. Jovite, '70 then.

Thanks

M.K.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on June 16, 2011, 03:25:57 PM
Here's a Minilite I saw on a '69 Javelin Trans-Am car up at the Sonoma Historics. Does anyone know what the stamped numbers on the circular pad mean?

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Minilite1.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Minilite2.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Swede70 on June 18, 2011, 07:37:57 PM
Greetings,

A (probably not too far off the mark) guess to offer up.  Foundry identifiers, key personnel hallmarks concerning the manufacturing process seen perhaps? Batch lot for the magnesium alloy, and who and whom oversaw or participated in the manufacture of the wheel?  My 1974-dated wheels bear year and month identification on another pad, whereas this is the best I can surmise concerning what is on view.  I'd have to look, but offset and dimensional information is also stamped upon this other pad of which I speak - hence what appears here seems cryptic by way of contrast.  Others would know for certain.  Thanks...

Mike K.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Bruce302 on June 18, 2011, 11:19:38 PM
Perhaps the C4 is a date code, the 15 114 could represent 15 " diameter and the 114 is PCD (pitch circle diameter) in millimetres which is the same as 4.5"
That is assuming that the Javelin is 4.5" PCD.
BSM, perhaps a British Standard reference, as was/is used as identifying manufacturing standards in certain industries.

Bruce 
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on June 20, 2011, 06:31:24 AM
Thank you both for your thoughts. Yes, the Javelin uses the 4.5" bolt circle.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: klvn8r on July 01, 2011, 01:53:27 PM
Hello all,

I am new to this forum, and was sent here by a Ford buddy, also with a huge T/A racing habit.  Personally, I'm into the AMC aspect of it, but I grew up around Chevrolets, and currently my brother has an old CenDiv 69 Camaro.  I have a little input on the  wheel topic, as I currently have a set of the American six spokes (also heard them referred to as TA-70) currently sitting on my Javelin streetcar!  They've been in my family since 1985, and were originally 5 x4.75 but were "opened up" for the Ford pattern way back before we knew better.  I have NEVER been able to find a marking on these wheels anywhere, but they sure spark interest to folks with an eye for detail.  I'll try to add pics later.  Oh, one of the last pictures above shows a Minilite with the "plugs" in it....more than likely from a 70 Penske Javelin.

Craig
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on July 01, 2011, 04:50:58 PM
Thanks for signing up Craig and welcome to our forum. Post some pics of your wheels when you get a chance.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: klvn8r on July 01, 2011, 09:14:29 PM
Thank you, Jon, will do.  I also have a 70's T/A car that has an "odd" glass seat in it as well....pretty sure its a Racemark, considering some of the other stuff on my car.

Craig


Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on July 20, 2011, 10:37:06 PM
I've attached two pictures that are courtesy of Steve Francis.  Steve notes that these wheels are 15" X 9.5", and have a GM, 5 on 4 3/4" bolt pattern.  The wheels have a stamp of TPI, which is most likely Troy Promotions Inc., and perhaps were used on a Tony DeLorenzo or Jerry Thompson Corvette (Owens Corning sponsorship). 

Per Steve: "It just showed up one day with UPS without a note or name. Kind of weird but appreciated at the same time. I've had it a while as a conversation piece for the office."

Steve Francis has found, documented and restored a number of old race cars, with a particular fondness and capability with Mustangs run during the early years of Trans-Am.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OCTARD on July 20, 2011, 10:39:14 PM
I've attached one more picture, again courtesy of Steve Francis, that shows the hub mounting surface of the above noted Minilite.

Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: KurtS on July 21, 2011, 04:33:57 AM
Oh, one of the last pictures above shows a Minilite with the "plugs" in it....more than likely from a 70 Penske Javelin.

Craig
Welcome Craig.
Those Minilite wheels don't really have plugs in them. The mold had an insert so they could be cast as 4 lug or 5 lug by swapping out the insert.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Swede70 on August 15, 2011, 07:23:58 PM
Hello,

Not certain if the following might be of aid to anyone, but two scans of Minilite lug and nut specifications as prepared and sent to me by TPR, Inc. of Indianapolis, IN in January of 1999.  Then it was understood that this firm had purchased an inventory of NOS Minilite lugs and nuts at a bankruptcy auction, although it would require the input of others to more clearly illuminate matters.  I responded to an advertisement found within the classifieds of Grassroots Motorsports, and the sheets found below were what was sent along to me. Good will towards the community...

Mike K.

Nuts: 1/2
Head style: Trans Am
A: 7/8"
B: 2.1
C: 0.95
D: 0.7

M.K.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on August 15, 2011, 08:28:11 PM
Thank you, Mike. I think those documents are quite useful.

Contact info for TPR, Inc can be found at http://www.tpr-inc.com/contact.asp
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: firstgenaddict on September 06, 2011, 09:21:10 PM
Stampings on the circular pad by the valvestem...
Saw this on a recent post by Jon.
Penske Wheel with something stamped...

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Ron%20Lathrop%20photos/1969_06_08_204.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: wrongwayron on September 06, 2011, 10:03:37 PM
CA 10114 894
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: wrongwayron on September 07, 2011, 01:56:38 AM
Guess I should have said: I blew up the original until I could read the stamping for you
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: S A Dunbar on September 07, 2011, 04:47:08 PM
Hello all,

I am new to this forum, and was sent here by a Ford buddy, also with a huge T/A racing habit.  Personally, I'm into the AMC aspect of it, but I grew up around Chevrolets, and currently my brother has an old CenDiv 69 Camaro.  I have a little input on the  wheel topic, as I currently have a set of the American six spokes (also heard them referred to as TA-70) currently sitting on my Javelin streetcar!  They've been in my family since 1985, and were originally 5 x4.75 but were "opened up" for the Ford pattern way back before we knew better.  I have NEVER been able to find a marking on these wheels anywhere, but they sure spark interest to folks with an eye for detail.  I'll try to add pics later.  Oh, one of the last pictures above shows a Minilite with the "plugs" in it....more than likely from a 70 Penske Javelin.

Craig


Craig,

Just curious...who's "old CenDiv 69 Camaro" does your brother have?

Scott
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on September 08, 2011, 01:04:30 PM
Ron and I looked at that Penske wheel image a little more and it does seem like it probably does say the same thing ["C4 15114 BSM" on the small circular pad] as the one I took at the Sonoma Historics earlier this year (seen below).

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Minilite2.jpg)

I guess I will have to look at more Minilites as I run across them to see if it might be a standard stamping regardless of wheel diameter, bolt pattern diameter, etc.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: wrongwayron on September 08, 2011, 01:58:39 PM
Gee, your image is clearer than my 42-year-old B&W image LOL ... but you were probably taking a picture of the stamping and I was focused the left over signs of the wheel bearing failuire that day in 1969. I am reminded that the vintage racing vehicles of today are in much better condition than the vehicles were in their oriiginal racing days.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: klvn8r on September 09, 2011, 03:02:22 AM
Scott,  my brother's car was built and raced by Dick Fischer, out of Milwaukee.  I think it was Cen-Div champion in 1976.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on January 31, 2012, 12:59:20 AM
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/More%20car%20stuff/Wheels01.jpg)
(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/More%20car%20stuff/Wheels03.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 31, 2012, 06:35:10 AM
I have two sets of magnesium American Racing Wheels which were previously ran on Robert Christiansen's '69 Z28 in TransAm and IMSA GT races.   One set are the 5 spokes (one of which has a cracked spoke), and the other set are the AR 6 spokes, in great shape.    Both sets of wheels are 15 x 8.   The 6 spokes have 4 inch backspace, and the 5 spokes have 4-3/4 backspace.   Robert (Bob) who ran a gray/black '69 Z28 under the R.A.C.E banner for *(Robert A Christiansen Enterprises) ran the 'dry weather tires on the 5 spokes and rain tires on the 6 spokes...

My understanding is the when Trans Am began, AR had the 5 spokes, but esveral teams experienced cracking.   AR began working on a stronger wheel, ultimately coming out with the 6 spokes, but by the time they were introduced, Minilite had gathered most of the market!   The six spokes are considerably heavier than the 5 spokes, and are visably stronger.

I've got good front and back photos of both sheels, and Somewhere I've got an ad ran by AR for the TA70 wheels, if anyone is intersted in seeing them.

Gary
69Z28-RS
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on January 31, 2012, 04:31:10 PM
Thanks for the input, Gary. We'd enjoy seeing whatever you're willing to share with us.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: naparsei on January 31, 2012, 11:01:52 PM
My car originally ran 15x8" steelies, 4.5" backspace (guessing on the backspace). Is there a good source for these? I know they're heavy... but I'd like a second set of wheels for the car, which is running Minilites now.
Thanks,
Alex
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on February 01, 2012, 02:21:57 AM
I think you are talking 15x8 Corvette rally wheels, right? Those are not too hard to come by but you may want to do a better job of welding the center section to the rim.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: klvn8r on February 01, 2012, 04:05:17 AM
Gary, are your six spoke ARs GM pattern or Ford?  Are they for sale or trade?

Craig
ccamx73@airmail.net
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 01, 2012, 04:15:51 AM
they are 15x8 for Chevy pattern.  No, not for sale at this time  (i've been offered a new set of AL Minilites for them, which was probably a fair offer, but decided I should hold onto them).   I would sell the 5 spokes (one of which has a cracked spoke) for a fair offer.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 01, 2012, 04:33:51 AM
Hopefully I've successfully posted images of the front and back of the TA70 six spokes AR wheels below...

(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/6-spokefront1.jpg)
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/6-spokeback2.jpg)
[imghttp://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/6-spokewidth.jpg][/img]
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 01, 2012, 04:38:32 AM
Shown here are the width of the 15x8 Camaro pattern six spokes.. and the TA70 ad from 1970 (AMerican RAcing Ad)..
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/6-spokewidth.jpg)
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/TA70-6-spokead.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 01, 2012, 04:43:57 AM
And here is a period photo of the Univ of Pittsburgh car running the TA70's,
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/ta70wheelsonUnivPittTAcamaro.jpg)

and a photo of them on the restored car (taken a couple of years ago).

(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/6-spokerimsonTAcar.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 01, 2012, 04:50:38 AM
These are photos of one of the 5-spoke AR magnesium wheels I have (this is the one with the crack in one of the spokes).   These are 15x8" also, Chevy pattern, with 4-3/4" backspace.
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/5-spokefront2.jpg)

(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/5spokeoffset.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 01, 2012, 04:52:47 AM
Bob Christiansen's personal mark (R.A.C.E.) is stamped into each of these wheels, and they were ran in TransAm and IMSA FT racing in the late sixties and early-mid 70's.. by him.

Gary
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: kgu on February 01, 2012, 04:42:22 PM
I have a 200s wheel on my garage wall and it serves me well  -  for the garden hose
                                                                                                                 Ken
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 01, 2012, 06:06:02 PM
The five spoke AR wheels I have are not the 200S design I don't think, but I'm not sure what the exact model was called...
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on February 01, 2012, 11:18:30 PM
Thanks for posting your pictures. Those 5-spokes are not the 200-S design. They are a magnesium Torq-Thrust "D", not to be confused with what American currently sells as an aluminum Torq-Thrust "D" or Torq-Thrust II. I have not seen the 4 3/4" backspacing like that before. They have an offset that makes them look like a 15x7 from the front side. Do you have any photos of Christiansen's car with the mags on it (either set)?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: klvn8r on March 19, 2012, 11:15:57 PM
One of my TA-70s that goes on my Javelin.....originally a GM pattern wheel, but "opened up" in the mid 80s to fit the smaller Ford patter.  Sitting beside it one of the Racemark seats removed from Buzz Dyer's mid 70s AMC T/A cars, a Concord.

klvn8r
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 28, 2012, 09:08:45 PM
Like these

Hello all. I'm new here and a TA and SCCA racer fan. I thought that photo looked familiar. i took it in September 2007 at Coronado.

S A
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 29, 2012, 12:40:03 PM

This isn't the full pic I took back at the time but it is the one I have in my account shrunk down to specifically show the outlines of the original 4 lug system. In between the two bottom lugs you can see a complete slug filling the original lug hole.
S A
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4047/4382537524_d025e91cc8.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 29, 2012, 02:03:29 PM
Are you sure those are slugs filling holes that used to be there? Below is a photo of a Minilite wheel used on one
of the Penske cars in '69. The photo was taken at Mid-Ohio in 1969. You can see the circular casting lines of a
4-bolt pattern besides the 5-bolt holes that have actually been drilled out. I wonder if the circular lines you see
in your photo are simply casting lines which are part of the mold for the wheel. Because the Minilites are 8-spoke
wheels, a 4-bolt pattern lends itself more readily to the design but, of course, the American pony cars were all
5-bolt pattern (in stock configuration). I'm not sure how AMC was able to get away with running a 4-bolt hub
and wheel as they were not stock that way. Since they were able to do it, I don't see why the others couldn't.
Since you are an AMC enthusiast, can you shed some light on that?

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/Ron%20Lathrop%20photos/1969_06_08_022.jpg)
Photo by Ron Lathrop
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 29, 2012, 05:01:17 PM
 First reason I concluded those 4 spots are filled is 1)http://www.greenwoodcorvettes.com/BFG50.html- read about the wheels as the Greenwood team got them from Penske.
Second reason is 2) the size and number of the spot circles as well as their equal displacement  which falls into the same diameter as the machined lug holes. In the photo you provided just above you'll note the diameter of the casting pads compared to the diameter of the lug holes and reliefs. The casting bunges are considerably smaller in diameter which would be indicative of a facory hole location without consideration for the type and size of lug and corresponding relief.
If you look closely at the photo of the Donohue wheel from Coronado the circles appear to be the same diameter as the five lug holes machined into the wheel. Upon closer inspection you'll also see that when the edge of the recess is nicked the edge of the circle is not erased, indicating that the circle goes deeper than the surface. A casting pick-up point would have a shallow depth that could be sanded or machined off.

  Regarding your second question I can't comment, other than my comment would only be conjecture about how P E N S K E pulled that off rather than AMC and though I have talked to Walt Czarnecki before I didn't talk about this subject and I'm not certain he'd have any knowledge about this as he had moved on from AMC by this time and would have been in charge of pr and sales at Penske.

S A
   
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 29, 2012, 07:04:21 PM
Couple things I can  point out. Here's acolorized photo of the wheels in 4 lug configuration:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/smuckatelli/2942498572/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/smuckatelli/2942498572/) .
 KLVN8R on here has mentioned earlier an interesting point from memory: that the '70 SCCA rules were as written in the beginning of the season open on hubs. The rules printed here for '70 Camaros would be representative and are easy to check.

S A
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 29, 2012, 09:55:25 PM
1970 Rules in Section 6.4- Authorized Modifications: Paragraph C -Wheels, Tires, Wheels, Suspension- subsections 1 and 3 address wheels and spindles with no stated restriction in terms of 4 lug vs 5 lug. That being the case, the next thing is it's been passed down that the SCCA nixed the 4 luggers during '70 or that Penske volunteered to switch; is that proven? Looking at later photos in the '70 season might tell the tale for certain....they were 5 lug for '71, that is not in question and 5 lug wheels are specifically mentioned in the equivalent section of the rulebook for '71.

S A
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 30, 2012, 01:12:20 PM
By the way, particularly in writing, my people skills might appear to be a bit.....uhhhhh....primitive. I like to cut to the center of the chase and in my zest and shortcut attitude sometimes things get left out, like how I got to there from here and to include considering other people's feelings and qualifications. It occurs that some of the answers I have presented, if that is what they are, may be to questions not asked or may appear to be bulldozing over someone else's theory or knowledge. That is not my intent. If I have assumed a line of questioning that wasn't  what anyone else was asking please correct me. I am only seeking the truth and my ideas and conclusions don't have any more validity than other ones. I strongly feel most have been pursuing this area of interest far longer and more in depth than I have. I am quite thankful I found this place. I don't want to mess that up.

S A
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 30, 2012, 02:55:43 PM
No offense taken. Sorry for my late reply. I had looked at those GCRs yesterday and could have sworn I saw 5-lug mandatory for 1970 but after your subsequent posts, I went back and reviewed it and apparently I must have really been down in the '71 section and not realized it. Kind of easy to do with the way I have got it all posted. I don't know anything about Penske volunteering to switch. I suspect he wouldn't do that. Why others didn't follow suit is what's interesting to me.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 30, 2012, 05:37:23 PM
   I've wondered as well why they didn't move in that direction.  Penske's choices over the years revealed an inventive mind that thought along lines others apparently didn't consider.  In this instance it's right there, you can see it when you ordered the wheels, the wheels came cast for 4 lugs.  Penske and Donohue came from racing platforms that used wheels held on either by knockoffs, pins, or probably 4 lugs, so the concept wouldn't have been a huge leap.
   It is safe to say the overall trend of original ideas he and his team developed were often so simple that in retrospect I can imagine the faint echoes of a collective "DUHHHHHH" ebbing through the cosmos.  A short list of looking at what the rulebook doesn't say would include: the wide filler neck and long fill tube for the TA Camaro to increase the fuel capacity without breaking the letter of the rulebook, the tall gravity feed fuel tower for fuel stops, the original 4 lug incarnation of Minilites in '70, using non-floater rear axles on '69 Camaro and relying on super strong axle shafts and repetitive teardowns and inspection, using 917 like brakes front and rear on the roundy-round Matador in '71, elliptical rear springs on the '69 Cams and '70-'71 Javs, horizontal traction shocks on the '69's- similar to AMC's articulated though rigid "torque link" system, the vinyl roof on the Camaros, and so on.
   In looking at the team's approach to building a car balance comes to mind first and then details aimed at saving time for events that are considered down time are as much a part of a competitive edge by saving a few seconds in the pits with 4 lug wheels as would having a powerful mill and complex rear suspension a la` Mustang, and thus would have been 1970's "Unfair Advantage" for Penske.

S A
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 30, 2012, 06:29:39 PM
The question of whether Penske would have traded the 4 luggers, during the '70 season, that is, is answered by the b&w photo on the page of this link: http://hooniverse.com/2011/08/19/morning-qualifying-brave-captain/ (http://hooniverse.com/2011/08/19/morning-qualifying-brave-captain/). This is from the Riverside race, the last of the '70 racing season.

S A
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on March 30, 2012, 09:00:23 PM
I'm sory, SA.. but I didn't follow the 'vinyl roof' comment on the '69's in your above post.. . Care to explain?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 30, 2012, 09:16:25 PM
The vinyl tops Penske put on the '69 Camaros. I said roofs, which is misleading. They used the optional vinyl roof covering on the Camaro in the early meets of the season but the other temas successfully lobbied the SCCA to get Penske's team to stop covering the roof in vinyl somewhere in the early season.

S A
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: klvn8r on March 30, 2012, 11:11:12 PM
Just a quick observation, but here is my PERSONAL take on the lug controversy.  If they recognized that "hubs were open", they probably considered going to a knock-off or something similar.  I also recall reading/hearing (not saying its factual!) that when Bud Moore saw it, he threatened to go to THREE LUG wheels, but apparently didn't make good on it.  Pretty sure SCCA didn't want wheels flying off into the crowd!

klvn8r
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 31, 2012, 06:12:46 AM
The question of whether Penske would have traded the 4 luggers, during the '70 season, that is, is answered by the b&w photo on the page of this link: http://hooniverse.com/2011/08/19/morning-qualifying-brave-captain/ (http://hooniverse.com/2011/08/19/morning-qualifying-brave-captain/). This is from the Riverside race, the last of the '70 racing season.

S A

The decal placement, the side gas filler and the vegetation tells me this is Laguna Seca at the start of the '70 season, not Riverside at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 31, 2012, 05:15:09 PM
At 1:40 and after you can see the 4 lug wheels in the pits at Kent SIR, the next to last race of the season:http://www.motorsportretro.com/2010/02/documenatry-trans-am-1970/ (http://www.motorsportretro.com/2010/02/documenatry-trans-am-1970/). You are very likely completely correct about the shot I attributed to Riverside. :-[ The take-away is that consistently throughout the '70 season, in any shot of the #6 car where you can make out a side shot of the wheels they are 4 lug. ;)

S A
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 31, 2012, 05:32:10 PM

Just a quick observation, but here is my PERSONAL take on the lug controversy.  If they recognized that "hubs were open", they probably considered going to a knock-off or something similar.  I also recall reading/hearing (not saying its factual!) that when Bud Moore saw it, he threatened to go to THREE LUG wheels, but apparently didn't make good on it.  Pretty sure SCCA didn't want wheels flying off into the crowd!

klvn8r


Interesting point. The thing with their open wheel background  is they would have looked at a rule where you could substitute another hub for the stock one and saw what the Minilites were designed for, European cars, with the vast preponderance of them being 4 lug designs. As the team used the design through at least the ninth race of the season out of ten races it is evident they met the rules as they were stated in the book. If anyone lodged a complaint it didn't change the fact that Donohue ran the car with 4 lug wheels.
   Uhhhh yeah, 3 lug wheels? They had to have a good laugh on that one! Sounds like sour grapes when they saw Penske's simple interpretation of the rules. ;D
S A
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on March 31, 2012, 06:13:03 PM
I fail to see where a 'vinyl roof' would be an advantage in racing (or any other venue).... so I'm still at a loss.  The vinyl roof covering would be additional drag (in an aerodynamic sense)..
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on March 31, 2012, 07:06:46 PM
I fail to see where a 'vinyl roof' would be an advantage in racing (or any other venue).... so I'm still at a loss.  The vinyl roof covering would be additional drag (in an aerodynamic sense)..

Penske or Donohue claim various things when explaining why they used the vinyl top. Penske claimed it made it easier to identify the team's cars from the rest of the field. Donohue skirts around the issue of acid dipping and wrinkled sheetmetal. Since Penske never was docked for any cheating whatsoever through this time the answer still is out there. The advantage wouldn't be from an aerodynamic sense, true, unless the vinyl "breathed" as one of the authors from that time mentions. But in making a car recognizable to the team manager and pit crew, yes, that would be an advantage. If the sheetmetal was wrinkled from too much "liquid machining" then covering the fact up would serve a purpose and the advantage would be the weight savings and handling benefit of lowering the overall center of gravity. The true answer? I don't know. Someone might. Penske felt it served a purpose.
S A
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on April 01, 2012, 02:39:42 AM
I would guess that the vinyl would weigh more than whatever metal weight might be removed by acid dipping, but the 'recognition factor might be a slight advantage. . but they could have *paiinted* their roof flat black and achieved the same goal if that was it..
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 01, 2012, 04:40:43 AM
Guys, this thread is for "Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros" and we have been veering off topic with prolonged vinyl top discussion. The general consensus is the vinyl tops were put on the Penske cars because the cars were acid dipped too long and the roofs were wavy. The other competitors were very suspicious of why the tops were on the cars and Penske was forced to remove them in mid-season. It is believed that new steel roofs were put on the cars at that time to correct the wavyness. If you would like to talk more about the vinyl tops, please post something in the "69 Penske vinyl roof" thread. Thanks for your understanding.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on July 24, 2012, 12:39:40 PM
American Racing wheels catalog for magnesium wheels, courtesy of Robert Lodewyk.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag1.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag2.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag3.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag4.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag5.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag6.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag7.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag8.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag9.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag10.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag11.jpg)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/June%202012/mag12.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: MO on July 24, 2012, 06:14:14 PM
Robert,

Thanks for sharing that with Jon for us!
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 12, 2013, 05:00:41 AM
Looks like somebody has some real 15x7 and 15x8 magnesium Americans they would like to sell...

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/525003/Old_Magnesium_Wheels#Post525003
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Trans Åm on May 20, 2013, 05:26:51 PM
I know I'm new and don't know much, and it is possible you fellas have no interest in wheels used in the late 70's or 80's, but I had a question and thought someone here ought to know.

I really find these wheels interesting but can't figure out what they are. From this page: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1980/Trois-Rivieres-1980-08-24t-010.jpg
(http://www.racingsportscars.com/wm/photo/1980/WM_Trois-Rivieres-1980-08-24t-010.jpg?dir=photo/1980&img=Trois-Rivieres-1980-08-24t-010.jpg&txt=www.autocourse.ca&wi=&mode=Null)


I was wondering who made them?
What are they?
What's their composition?
Would they be safe to use on the street and/or track now?

Thank you very much
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: wolfmin on May 20, 2013, 08:05:36 PM
Jongbloed Racing Wheels.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Trans Åm on May 20, 2013, 08:56:09 PM
Thank you so much, that's definitely them. Surprised at how hard it is to find them see how many cars used them from vintage racing photos.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: wolfmin on May 20, 2013, 09:45:38 PM
I think the best looking wheel of the late 70's early 80's era.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Trans Åm on May 21, 2013, 05:12:34 AM
This website I am citing is great for some really awesome photos(second to this site, of course!)

Here's another quick great shot of these wheels on what I consider a late model: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1982/Portland-1982-06-13-080a.jpg

(http://www.racingsportscars.com/wm/photo/1982/WM_Portland-1982-06-13-080a.jpg?dir=photo/1982&img=Portland-1982-06-13-080a.jpg&txt=%c2%a9%20Brent%20Martin&wi=&mode=Null)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on June 04, 2013, 05:09:15 AM
Minilite wheel ad from 1970, as seen in Competition Press & Autoweek. (Jon Mello Collection)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: kgu on January 27, 2014, 04:53:30 PM
I managed to save one of the 200-S wheels off of Craig Fishers car. John Todds kept the cracked wheels because they just look so good. Minilite wheels are stronger than 200-S but not as attractive in my opinion.

                                                   Ken
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 27, 2014, 05:08:21 PM
I managed to save one of the 200-S wheels off of Craig Fishers car. John Todds kept the cracked wheels because they just look so good. Minilite wheels are stronger than 200-S but not as attractive in my opinion.
Ken

I've always loved the Minilite look.. perhaps because 'nothing says TransAm' like Minilite..  :)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: kgu on January 27, 2014, 05:39:43 PM
How about if I were to say I think Minilite is "2nd best" looking TransAm wheel?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 27, 2014, 06:22:01 PM
How about if I were to say I think Minilite is "2nd best" looking TransAm wheel?
I suppose that's a personal opinion thing.. :)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on January 27, 2014, 07:18:45 PM
Minilite's only #3 to me after the American 5-spoke "D" and the 200-S.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 27, 2014, 07:44:41 PM
Minilite's only #3 to me after the American 5-spoke "D" and the 200-S.

John,

I still have a set of the original magnesium 15x8 5-spoke 'D' American Racing wheels (one has a crack in one spoke) that I'd trade for an equivalent set of Minilites..  if you come across a set and would like?  :)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: kgu on January 27, 2014, 09:05:47 PM
I had 15"x7" American Torq-Thrust wheels on my street car with E and G Goodyears. I think "American" still makes  some of the best looking wheels today. Rich simplicity.

 
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on January 28, 2014, 05:13:46 AM
I had 15"x7" American Torq-Thrust wheels on my street car with E and G Goodyears. I think "American" still makes  some of the best looking wheels today. Rich simplicity.

Ken, I generally agree with you on that. I think the original Americans are better looking but the new ones are still a classic design. The shape and color of the spokes plus their texture is slightly off on the new ones. That's why I prefer the old ones.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on January 28, 2014, 05:23:25 AM
John,
I still have a set of the original magnesium 15x8 5-spoke 'D' American Racing wheels (one has a crack in one spoke) that I'd trade for an equivalent set of Minilites..  if you come across a set and would like?  :)

Gary, thanks for the offer but I think I will pass. I'm not going to collect the original magnesium wheels even though they are very cool pieces. Maybe someone else here is interested?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on March 22, 2014, 12:53:33 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-1969-Magnesium-american-racing-wheels-set-of-4/331157801430?_trksid=p2045573.c100034.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20263%26meid%3D5653191681656869871%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D9059%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D281291429857
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on March 22, 2014, 04:19:40 AM
Did anyone see anything on 'size' of those wheels on ebay??
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 22, 2014, 05:08:51 AM
Gary, it says they are 15 x 8 in Chevy bolt pattern. Those are some good looking wheels.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: satman on March 22, 2014, 02:25:09 PM
               If my memory served me correctly the Mustangs were running America Mags in 69 and that probably ended up costing Ford the championship when George Follmer broke a wheel  and hit the wall in at the final race at Riverside. We were working with Ford in that race and I can still remember Fumbler (as Penske used to call him) came storming back to the pits and reamed out the Ford brass for making him use those #### wheels

AL
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 23, 2014, 03:19:38 AM
Al, the championship was already won for Penske/Donohue in '69 before they ran the last race at Riverside but you are right that the American 200-S mags were prone to breaking. American replaced those with a six spoke design the next year but they never caught on and the majority seemed to go with the Minilites.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OG69Z on March 24, 2014, 12:06:57 AM
Those are some good looking wheels.
Yes, I have to agree!  Do these wheels have any clearance issues with disc brakes, especially the Corvette brakes on a 1st generation?
Thanks,
Robert
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on March 24, 2014, 02:07:56 AM
Here are some pictures of the 200s wheels I restored for my street T/A Mustang.
(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx86/1109RWHP/200s%20wheels/200s014-1.jpg) (http://s744.photobucket.com/user/1109RWHP/media/200s%20wheels/200s014-1.jpg.html)
(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx86/1109RWHP/200s%20wheels/200s017.jpg) (http://s744.photobucket.com/user/1109RWHP/media/200s%20wheels/200s017.jpg.html)
(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx86/1109RWHP/Mustang%20outside/carpics088JPGmycar_zpsf53a2bae.jpg) (http://s744.photobucket.com/user/1109RWHP/media/Mustang%20outside/carpics088JPGmycar_zpsf53a2bae.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on March 24, 2014, 02:10:24 AM
WOW RWHP!!  you made those wheels look better than new...   How about a send you a few sets??  :)
and yes, they do fit over Corvette disk brakes..  :) 

Gary
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on March 24, 2014, 02:46:14 AM
I sent them to this place and had the lips CNC machined after I glass beaded them. Used Eastwood wheel paint for the center.

http://www.wheelcollision.com/

And NO the hot chick does not polish your nuts while they polish your wheels so don't ask.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 24, 2014, 01:36:26 PM
The 200-S wheels look great on your Mustang. What's the Eastwood paint color on the spokes? It looks like it is something other than black (possibly).

It looks like wheelcollision.com is in Pennsylvania. For people on the West Coast who would rather not send their wheels so far
I have used Paradise Wheels, 1413 Linda Vista Drive, Suite D, San Marcos, CA 92078. The phone number is (760) 744-2400.
This business is owned by Craig Conley from the Historic Trans-Am group. He can also CNC machine the lips so they look like new.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on March 24, 2014, 11:37:09 PM
This is the paint I used.  http://www.eastwood.com/charcoal-gray-wheel-paint-set.html
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: BULLITT65 on March 25, 2014, 02:30:46 AM
I am planning on running those wheels on my 55 bel air. I thought they only came 15 x 7 , and 15 x 8.5 though. the 8.5 is a bit to much unfortunately. Anybody else aware of the sizes?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on March 25, 2014, 03:10:24 AM
15X7, 15X8.5, 15X10 and I think 15X12 but not sure on that. I had the front 15x7 widened to 15x8. The back ones are 15x8.5. The 10&12 are deeeep dish.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 25, 2014, 03:26:57 AM
This is the paint I used.  http://www.eastwood.com/charcoal-gray-wheel-paint-set.html

Thanks! Look pretty good.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: BULLITT65 on March 25, 2014, 03:31:07 AM
so even though it says 15 x 8 it is probably 15 x 8.5? I wasn't sure if they made different sizes for the magnesium wheels
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 25, 2014, 03:41:31 AM
They did make the magnesium ones in a 15 x 8 size because that was specified by the SCCA as the max legal size, although we know they made cheater sizes (slightly larger). They did not make 15 x 8 200-S Americans in aluminum.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on March 25, 2014, 03:46:16 AM
I did have a set of 15x8 magnesium wheels. They had a 5x5 bolt pattern for the Lincoln brakes that Ford ran on the front. The rears had the normal 5x4.5 Ford pattern.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on March 25, 2014, 03:48:49 AM
The aluminum ones are actually 15x6 3/4 not a full 15x7.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: yenkomark on April 07, 2014, 09:56:01 PM
Happened to see an earlier question on the vinyl roof on a Penske Camaro... Petty did it first on a Nascar Plymouth, probably to cover a little aero mod to the windshield and front edge of the roofline.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Steve Holmes on September 30, 2014, 12:06:26 AM
I wasn't sure about posting these pics on this superb thread, as they relate to a Mustang. But I hope you guys get some enjoyment out of them anyway. And Jon, please delete if you feel this is not on topic.

A few months ago I visited a guy here in New Zealand called Nigel MacDonald and snapped these pics. He owns a hoard of '67 Mustangs, including a GTA convertible, a pair of Shelby GT350s, a GT500 barn find, a 390 GT, and a fastback race car which he runs with Historic Muscle Cars. But a few years ago he also bought an old '67 Shelby notchback race car, which had been owned by David Bowden in Australia for about ten years. David bought several old competition Mustangs out of NZ all around the same time. This is the only one to have returned.

Anyway, the car is one of the 26 A/Sedan race cars built by Shelby in 1967. It was bought new by a Kiwi racer called Frank Bryan, who did one or two events in the US before he shipped it back to NZ and raced it for a season, before it was sold to another racer called Red Dawson. The car was originally white, but Red painted it metallic blue, and went on to win the 1970 NZ Saloon Car Championship in it, as joint-champion with Rod Coppins in a Camaro.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/s13jtj.jpg)

Nigel is in the process of having the Mustang repainted in Dawsons colors; it was white when the Bowdens owned it. But of interest to this thread is an original magnesium American Racing wheel Nigel has managed to reunite with the Mustang, after he discovered the wheel here in New Zealand. It had been in a guys garage for years.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/vrq9ev.jpg)

Note in the centre of the wheel is the indent referring to the Frank Bryan Racing Team. But note also his last name has been mis-spelt: "Frank Byran". I assume these must have been spare wheels ordered by Bryan from American Racing, rather than wheels ordered by Shelby for Bryan's car?

(http://i57.tinypic.com/11awkye.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on September 30, 2014, 01:01:24 AM
No worries at all, Steve. This is the perfect place for your post. Great story about the car and the current owner being able to locate one of the original magnesium wheels. I wonder if any more of them are still lurking out there in someone's garage.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Steve Holmes on October 02, 2014, 08:17:34 PM
Thanks Jon, glad you enjoyed that one. Nigel actually has three of the four wheels. I thought for some reason he just had the one. Nigel emailed me last night with the story:

"In August last year my cars featured in NZ Classic Car mag written by Gordon Campbell. Within a week or two a guy by the name of Harry rang me from Christchurch (in the South Island of NZ, and where Red Dawson sold the car in 1972) and informed me he had 3 of original magnesium rims. He had had them for about 15 years after buying them at a swap meet at Winchester (south of Christchurch) and they had been retrieved from a crashed track car, though not sure what. I made an arrangement to visit with him in a couple of months time when I was down on other business. He was a very genuine guy and was keen to see wheels reunited to the car and a very reasonable deal was done for which I am very grateful".

Nigel was also chasing a lead on a damaged wheel thought to have been from his car, and possibly the fourth wheel from the set. Strangely, this wheel was in Palmerston North, which is in the North Island of NZ, and a long, long way from where the other three wheels were living. Before Nigel could track the owner down, the guy apparently got himself into some trouble with the law, and his collection of parts was broken up. The whereabouts of the wheel are not yet known.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on October 03, 2014, 01:30:23 PM
Great story and nice bit of further information, Steve. Do the other wheels have the same misspelling of Frank Bryan's last name or was it just on the one?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on October 18, 2014, 07:53:05 PM
Here is a set of four 15x8.5" magnesium American D-spoke wheels for sale on ebay if anyone is interested... http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-15-x-8-5-MAGNESIUM-TORQ-THRUST-D-WHEELS-CORVETTE-Z-28-TRANS-AM-SCCA-/291217134935?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item43cde4d557&vxp=mtr

Certainly not a give-away price at over four grand but it is extremely hard to find these, especially in a matching set of four. The 5-on-5 bolt pattern
hurts us Chevy guys a bit but works great for the Ford guys with the Lincoln hubs.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on October 19, 2014, 04:22:07 PM
So what is a set of the same with Chevy pattern worth?  :)   
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: BULLITT65 on October 19, 2014, 04:37:51 PM
So what is a set of the same with Chevy pattern worth?  :)   
easy answer would be only what someone is willing to pay... ;)
This guy lists wheels often and it seems like double the price of what I have seen actual sets sell for.

I have seen American racing magnesium 200S wheels with a chevy pattern go for around $1200

I saw a set of of magnesium 15 x 7 mini lites with the chevy pattern go for $1800

Hope this helps
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on October 19, 2014, 04:46:58 PM
So what is a set of the same with Chevy pattern worth?  :)   
easy answer would be only what someone is willing to pay... ;)
This guy lists wheels often and it seems like double the price of what I have seen actual sets sell for.

I have seen American racing magnesium 200S wheels with a chevy pattern go for around $1200

I saw a set of of magnesium 15 x 7 mini lites with the chevy pattern go for $1800

Hope this helps

the fella running the ebay ads is a 'magnesium/?? wheel dealer'.... 
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: BULLITT65 on October 19, 2014, 07:54:45 PM
Well in some of his older auctions he had a trailer full of vintage wheels. I talked to him on the phone and he is pretty knowledgable, but yes he does ask a lot on ebay. Outside of ebay he will come down a little.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69jerryl on October 24, 2014, 06:01:43 PM
In the early 70's [71-73] I worked at Murray Auto Supply in Miami while I was in school at Univ of Miami. I purchased the ex-Vince Gimondo Trans Am Camaro at that time ...directly from Vince. Later in 1971 I was given a set of ARE T-70 15x8" wheels directly from American Racing. After 2 qualifying sessions at the SCCA Paul Whiteman National Race the centers had 3 cracked spokes....we never used that set of wheels again. Once again, they were FREE but we sold them right way [conveniently] and bought a second set from Vince/Hank Thorp.. I witnessed many sets of T-70s have problems will I was in TA and IMSA competition.

jerry 
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on October 24, 2014, 06:51:46 PM
Which wheels are the T-70's?   
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on October 25, 2014, 03:04:27 AM
The T70s are similar to the '60s straight spoke Americans but with the smaller '70s style center cap, as shown on the left in the photo below.
I can't recall seeing T70s being run on a Trans-Am car. Jerry, are you meaning to say you ran the 200-S style of wheel?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: OG69Z on October 25, 2014, 04:21:10 AM
Jerry, are these the type you are referring to?

Hopefully I've successfully posted images of the front and back of the TA70 six spokes AR wheels below...

(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/6-spokefront1.jpg)
(http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/6-spokeback2.jpg)
[imghttp://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/gdwylie/Wheels/6-spokewidth.jpg][/img]
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Steve Holmes on November 11, 2014, 05:06:26 AM
Great story and nice bit of further information, Steve. Do the other wheels have the same misspelling of Frank Bryan's last name or was it just on the one?

Hi Jon, no, the other two have the correct spelling, only that one is spelt incorrectly. Must have been a Friday afternoon special.....or maybe a Monday morning special.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on November 12, 2014, 01:44:58 AM
Thanks for the clarification, Steve. Good to know they weren't all screwed up.  ;)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: firstgenaddict on January 22, 2015, 06:09:05 PM
Here are a set of 15x8.5 5 on 5" magnesium TQ thrusts on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-15-x-8-5-MAGNESIUM-TORQ-THRUST-D-WHEELS-CORVETTE-Z-28-TRANS-AM-SCCA-/291349709117?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item43d5cbc13d
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on January 22, 2015, 07:44:25 PM
Interesting that two of the wheels have the valve stem hole in the lip and the other two have it between the spokes.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 23, 2015, 04:42:17 AM
I'm not buying his entire sales pitch....   :)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on May 27, 2015, 02:38:40 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mustang-Boss-302-429-Bud-Moore-Shelby-Trans-Am-American-Magnesium-TA70-wheel-set-/221777256410?hash=item33a2f45fda

Pricy, but cool.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on May 27, 2015, 03:55:50 AM
Wow, asking 2 grand more than the D spokes above!
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 27, 2015, 04:00:39 AM
The six spokes are restored, and modified (widened) with tires, and they are more rare.  The D spokes need restoration and *may* not be from a single set.   

That ad for the six spokes TA70's.... stated:  "...American Magnesium TA70 wheel set and correct cantilevered Blue Streak Goodyear racing slicks 25 x 9.5 and 27 x 11 with original stickers still on them. ..."

I'm curious what was meant by the term 'correct cantilevered blue streak racing slicks'....  Anyone help me out?  :)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on May 27, 2015, 11:43:08 PM
Those tires fit an 8" wide wheel but had a much wider tread like 10 or 11". the sidewall of the tire was made so the tread stayed flat and was not rounded from being on such a narrow wheel.   
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Ron C. on July 16, 2015, 09:23:25 AM
Hi Jon,been a while since I posted but I bought some wheels for the white 67Z.They are not original 60s minilites but they still look good!!
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l188/Budbrewer1/IMG_1119_zps2d2f6f0a.jpg) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/Budbrewer1/media/IMG_1119_zps2d2f6f0a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on July 16, 2015, 01:28:41 PM
Ron, those look nice on there. Are they 15x6's?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: BULLITT65 on July 16, 2015, 03:10:48 PM
Looks good. What wheels do you run on your other Z?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Ron C. on July 16, 2015, 03:34:24 PM
Yes Jon,15X6 special order.They are 15X7 standard order.I had to wait 6 months for them.Made in England.The other Z has the rallys from GM because I still show the car.Maybe at super chevy this weekend in Maple grove dragway.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Ron C. on July 16, 2015, 03:36:10 PM
the other 67Z with rallys (http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l188/Budbrewer1/IMG_1000.jpg) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/Budbrewer1/media/IMG_1000.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: maroman on July 16, 2015, 10:46:31 PM
Ron C., this is the '67 that has shown at Hershey? Rear window defroster as I remember?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: BULLITT65 on July 16, 2015, 10:48:26 PM
looking good. Does the white car have some racing history since it has the roll bar in it?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Ron C. on July 19, 2015, 09:51:18 AM
Yes but your going to chuckle when I tell you that it was used in hillclimb racing in Pennsylvania and also rally racing somewhere where they used to have cone racing in a big parking lot that was a timed type of racing.I cannot find any documentation on this but the person that owned the car back in 1968 told me that his father raced the car in these scca sanctioned events.If anyone knows anything about the hillclimb  events in PA. or has any names of the drivers that did this kind of racing in Pa lmk.I cant say the last name of the person that I spoke with but if I see his last name on a drivers list I can verify it.The car still has the holes in the rocker panels that the exhaust hangers were mounted to in front of the rear wheels.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Ron C. on July 19, 2015, 09:53:22 AM
Ron C., this is the '67 that has shown at Hershey? Rear window defroster as I remember?
No I have not been to hershey with the red car.It was at super chevy about 2 yrs ago in maple grove Pa.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: BULLITT65 on July 19, 2015, 09:54:10 AM
I am obviously a fan of red, but the looks of the white one with the driven hard look is really cool.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on July 27, 2015, 04:35:12 PM
Did any Camaros use deep dish mags like the RORs on Moffat's Mustang or the mystery mags on subsequent private ownership pictures of Donohue's Javelin?

Steve
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on July 27, 2015, 04:45:59 PM
Javelin pics originally in 'Collectible Automobile':
http://www.javelinamx.com/javhome/articles/cajav20.jpg
http://www.javelinamx.com/javhome/articles/cajav21.jpg

Three Moffat pics on this page:
http://www.planetsoarer.com/fats/fats.htm (http://www.planetsoarer.com/fats/fats.htm)


Steve
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on July 28, 2015, 04:05:02 AM
Small correction: ROH wheels on Moffat's Mustang.

Steve
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on July 29, 2015, 02:57:55 AM
Did any Camaros use deep dish mags like the RORs on Moffat's Mustang or the mystery mags on subsequent private ownership pictures of Donohue's Javelin?

Steve

     In Trans-Am (1972 and earlier) you were required to use a wheel no wider than 8". I believe a 10" wide wheel was allowed beginning in 1973 but the Trans-Am series was not the same at that point.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Steve Holmes on November 03, 2015, 07:47:49 PM
The handsome American Racing 5-spoke wheel was the wheel of choice in the Trans-Am through to the end of 1968. Then, almost as one, all the factory teams switched to Minilites for 1969.

However, the two factory Mustang squads ran American Racing 200 wheels in the early races, before then switching to Minilites, although the 200s do appear to have made come-backs at various points in the year for both teams. Also, the T/G Firebird team appears to have at least fitted AM 200 wheels to their cars very early, and before the season started. They also then switched to Minilites.

Does anyone know why, first of all, the teams that initially ran the American Racing 200 wheels chose these over the previous years AM design that had been so popular? And what advantages did the Minilite have over both the American Racing wheels used through to 1968, and the 200 wheels? This was really a big sea-change in wheel choice for teams.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on November 04, 2015, 04:41:10 AM
My understanding is that sometime during the '69 season, several teams suffered cracking in the spokes of the AR five spokes.  American Racing designed a new (slightly heavier) 6-spoke wheel to address those with concerns, but by the time AR introduced those wheels, the 8 spoke minilites had captured most of the market...

Ps.  I have a set of the 5-spoke AR magnesium wheels and a set of the AR 6-spoke wheels which were ran on Robert Christiansen's '69 Z28; one of the spokes on one 5-spoke wheel has such a crack.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on November 05, 2015, 04:07:58 AM
There were some instances where the 5-spoke Americans broke but I don't think there was an epidemic of this happening at that time. There was some natural movement for some to the 200-S American because it was new for the '69 season and it was a new, unique design. Tire sizes were growing a lot in this timeframe and there probably was some concern that the wheels would be under more stress. Since the Minilite wheels had more spokes, it is also natural to assume there was more inherent strength in that particular design. Off the top of my head, I can not remember seeing a picture of a broken Minilite but I can recall seeing some broken 5-spoke Americans. I think once Bud Moore saw that other teams were not having any issues with Minilites breaking, he followed suit later in the '69 season. Successful teams tend to follow what other successful teams are doing.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on January 25, 2016, 05:27:38 AM
Are there any versions of the daisy wheels that have a center reinforcing rib under each spoke and a full circle bolt hole plate without the reliefs cut in on the underside at the "nose" of each daisy spoke? In short, are there any 200S or 200P wheels that mimic the ARE roadracing 4-hole Libres:http://www.zparts.com/zptech/comparisons/wheels/pages/are_vs_noname_back.html (http://www.zparts.com/zptech/comparisons/wheels/pages/are_vs_noname_back.html)

Steve
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on January 26, 2016, 12:24:35 AM
This is a magnesium one I used to own.
(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx86/1109RWHP/200s%20wheels/200s014.jpg) (http://s744.photobucket.com/user/1109RWHP/media/200s%20wheels/200s014.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on January 26, 2016, 05:00:44 AM
That has the full bolt circle and thick spoke sides. A definite improvement over some other ones.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on January 27, 2016, 02:17:40 AM
That may be, but they are the ones known for breaking the spokes at the hub.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on January 27, 2016, 06:49:01 AM
I think those are the torque thrusts and perhaps 200s's with the pie cutouts on the backside of the bolt hole circle. I seriously doubt ones like the one pictured were the break prone ones. If there was another version with the rib in the middle also they would be bullet-proof, hence the question I started with about versions existing with the Libre and six spoke feature.

If you look at the picture in the TA wheels section you can see why the spokes broke where they did.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 27, 2016, 02:26:56 PM
By 'extra rib', are you referring to something like this ??  This is the backside of the ARE six spokes (AR70?) wheels...  This wheel design was the result of some early issues with the 5-spokes (Torque Thrust) magnesium wheels cracking spokes...  The second photo is the backside of 5-spoke Torque Thrusts (This 5-spoke has a crack in one of the spokes which I think was from 'rubbing' the top of the wall at Daytona at 'fairly high speed'.. :)  )

note: The five spoke weighs ~ 1-1.5 lbs more per wheel than the 5-spoke.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Shadow Ahead on January 27, 2016, 11:19:28 PM
Yes, like both above examples. The six spokers appear to take the Libre bolt hole circle concept one extra step beyond by machining the pad above a completely concentric ring separating the spokes from the bolt hole circle.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 28, 2016, 02:49:24 AM
Both sets of those wheels were ran on the RAC-Enterprises 69 Z28 TransAm and IMSA GT owned and driven by Robert (Bob) Christianson.  His race car colors were gray and black (although the car was originially orange/black).. :)

I had a typo and didn't catch it in my last post (too late to edit).. What I SHOULD have said in my note was:

note: The SIX spoke weighs ~ 1-1.5 lbs more per wheel than the 5-spoke.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on February 12, 2016, 03:05:30 AM
Here is a link to an Australian company that is reproducing a Minilite-style wheel and also a copy of the American 200-S wheel. Prices seem reasonable and evidently they have a warehouse in Southern CA so it seems like quick shipping would not be a problem for a US customer. Thanks to Sig Hansen for pointing this out to me.

http://transamraceengineering.com/
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 12, 2016, 03:49:02 AM
Those superlite versions are extremely light (on the order of magnesium), although it says they are aluminum.. Doesn't that mean there is less mass?  ie.  thinner in thickness of the metal?     I've always loved minilite look wheels.. :)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on February 13, 2016, 05:22:48 AM
The 15 x 8 Superlite wheels are said to be 9 kg which is just a hair under 20 lbs each. That is not extremely light for an aluminum wheel of that size. A magnesium wheel would be about 33% lighter.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 13, 2016, 12:21:09 PM
thanks Jon,

I saw the 9 number,and read it as lbs...  my mistake..  :)   
I'm glad to know I'm just blind and not going crazy.. :) 
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on February 13, 2016, 04:05:18 PM
You're welcome, Gary.  If it truly was a 9 lb wheel I would be worried about the thickness of the metal and how much abuse it could take.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 13, 2016, 09:58:15 PM
You're welcome, Gary.  If it truly was a 9 lb wheel I would be worried about the thickness of the metal and how much abuse it could take.

absolutely Jon.. :)   When I read the 9 as lbs, I was shocked... (but they did call them 'superlite'..).. :)      If I recall correctly, the two types of 8x15 ARE magnesium wheels I have were on that rough order but a bit heavier (Torque Thrust D approx 10-11 lbs, and AD70 12-13 lbs).
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on February 14, 2016, 05:52:20 AM
Thanks, Gary. I had a 15 x 8 Torq Thrust D in magnesium but never thought to weigh it. I sold it a fair number of years ago after having trouble finding more so I could complete a set.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on February 20, 2016, 11:46:17 PM
Hi folks,

I ended up making a deal on a set of four 15x8.5" magnesium Torq Thrust Ds today. They are NOS and have some very light white staining starting in areas, which I assume is the onset of corrosion. They are all dated within a few days of each other, late 1968. Unfortunately the bolt circle is 5 on 5" so they can't easily work on my first-gen Z/28. I would guess these are among the best preserved mag TT-Ds.

Can anyone give me an idea of what these might be worth? They will either be garage art for me, or I will sell/trade them to someone who needs them for an early Mustang, or ?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 21, 2016, 04:00:41 AM
Can you take some photos of one of them?   so we can say we've seen NEW OLD STOCK ARE magnesiums.. :)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on February 21, 2016, 05:30:58 AM
For sure...I will take a few pics tomorrow.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on February 27, 2016, 09:20:23 PM
Here are some pics. The backspacing is right around 4 3/16" Interestingly they are all dated within three days of each other. How do I clean these without affecting the finish?

(https://tonyn.smugmug.com/Other/Parts/i-85nbBbw/0/X3/IMG_3385-X3.jpg)

(https://tonyn.smugmug.com/Other/Parts/i-mmXRQ9n/0/X3/IMG_3386-X3.jpg)

(https://tonyn.smugmug.com/Other/Parts/i-J2G7RRJ/0/X3/IMG_3387-X3.jpg)

(https://tonyn.smugmug.com/Other/Parts/i-P2wfsZ8/0/X3/IMG_3388-X3.jpg)

(https://tonyn.smugmug.com/Other/Parts/i-2Z3KN6V/0/X3/IMG_3389-X3.jpg)

(https://tonyn.smugmug.com/Other/Parts/i-Dmtg9PN/0/X3/IMG_3397-X3.jpg)

(https://tonyn.smugmug.com/Other/Parts/i-F3wr89K/1/X3/IMG_3392-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 28, 2016, 05:01:01 AM
I have 2 sets of the ARE magnesiums, and I also would like to know the preferred means to clean them and prep for painting; magnesium wheels need to be painted in order to seal them from air leakage, and also to protect against rapid oxidation (which you are seeing on yours).   Anyone with suggestions for how to clear the wheels, and any suggestions for prepping for primer and paint, I know I'd love to get the suggestions, and I'm sure that  70L34 would as well.

'70L34:  What are your plans for the ones you have, given they are 5 on 5" lug pattern?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on February 28, 2016, 06:47:35 AM
Gibbs Brand penetrant is good stuff for this and many other applications. Good lube for shifters also instead of grease.

http://www.roadsters.com/gibbs/
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: maroman on February 28, 2016, 12:33:43 PM
Amen to Gibbs. I buy it by the case and it can be painted over, unlike stuff with sillycone.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on February 28, 2016, 05:44:36 PM
Thanks guys. The Gibbs helped a lot with the appearance but some of the white staining is still there. What do you recommend using on that?
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on February 28, 2016, 07:44:18 PM
Beautiful weather in MI today, so I gave the wheels a really good once-over with the Gibbs and will wait a few days as directed to see what happens to the white areas.

I'm leaning toward hitting the outside machined lip with a very fine scotchbrite to bring out the original machined finish. What do you guys think?

To address an earlier question - sorry 69Z28-RS, I missed it the first time around. I will be selling or trading these to someone who can use them, since I have no cars with a 5-on-5 bolt pattern. I briefly considered modifying one of my first-gen Camaros to 5-on-5 but I think these wheels are too wide to fit anyway.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on February 28, 2016, 07:54:40 PM
so how many cans of the Gibbs Brand will I need for 8 wheels??  :)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on February 28, 2016, 08:00:54 PM
I went through about a quarter can to do all four of mine, so it actually coats pretty well! Spray it on, let it sit for a few, and wipe it with a small cloth to distribute it, like you would a wood stain.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on February 29, 2016, 01:40:40 PM
Tony, I don't personally have another recommendation on what to use for the stubborn white areas. Probably time and more Gibbs will help. I don't think using a fine scotchbrite on the lips would be a bad idea.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: maroman on February 29, 2016, 02:05:35 PM
I just googled removing magnesium corrosion and got several methods. Some by chemicals I've never heard of.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on March 05, 2016, 07:16:41 PM
Gibbs seems to be helping...which is great because it saves me some manual labor!

Where do you guys recommend advertising these wheels for sale? I'd like to avoid Ebay. Wish we had a classifieds section on CRG....
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 05, 2016, 11:35:30 PM
I'm glad the Gibbs is helping you out. I thought it would.

Due to the 5-on-5 pattern, you might try selling the wheels on this Boss 302 forum... http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=7604hsiqm1n1fe2ddlsa8qv7v1&board=8.0
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on March 06, 2016, 02:19:08 AM
Thanks Jon, I will give that a shot.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 1109RWHP on March 06, 2016, 04:56:35 AM
The only Boss that used a 5x5 was a real T/A team car that had Lincoln rotors. The normal pattern is 5x4 1/2.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: oldtransamdriver on March 07, 2016, 07:00:18 AM
You might try  Racing Junk.

Robert
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on March 08, 2016, 04:45:58 AM
Maybe the HAMB also.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on April 09, 2016, 04:55:50 PM
If anyone is interested, I have listed my NOS 15x8.5" Americans on Ebay...auction link is below.

http://tinyurl.com/zxt3suh

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/9HYAAOSwoudW-anQ/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 09, 2016, 10:42:13 PM
Looks like the Gibbs made them look quite a bit better.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Trans Åm on April 09, 2016, 11:09:07 PM
That is absolutely incredible! I'd love to see some up close shots of the pitting and the textured surface of the spokes.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on April 10, 2016, 12:37:18 AM
The Gibbs made a huge improvement. Not entirely free of oxidation but they seem to be getting better every day.
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on April 18, 2016, 01:15:55 AM
Auction ends tonight...in an hour! I'm not even close to breaking even at the current price...you win some and lose some....

http://tinyurl.com/zxt3suh
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 69Z28-RS on April 18, 2016, 02:27:20 AM
Ended at $1546...   most bidding within last few seconds..  hopefully you 'broke even'..  :)
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: 70L34 on April 18, 2016, 05:00:06 PM
I did get my money back, thank god. They are going to a good Ford home!
Title: Re: Wheels used on Trans-Am Camaros
Post by: Jon Mello on April 14, 2018, 06:06:09 PM
Here are some NOS American D-spoke mags that were for sale on eBay recently by the person who bought them new. I don't think I ever thought I'd see an NOS set of these 50 years later but I'm glad I did. They are awesome even if they are the 15x6 size and not the 15x7 or 15x8.

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/mags%20with%20boxes_zpshkivxa7n.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/mags%20with%20boxes_zpshkivxa7n.jpg.html)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/mags%20frontside_zpsttfsrcmk.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/mags%20frontside_zpsttfsrcmk.jpg.html)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/mags%20backside_zpspbhuviwv.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/mags%20backside_zpspbhuviwv.jpg.html)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/mags%20box%20close-up_zps237runlc.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/mags%20box%20close-up_zps237runlc.jpg.html)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/mags%20box%20stamp_zpsvklsmvdv.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/mags%20box%20stamp_zpsvklsmvdv.jpg.html)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/mags%20caps%201_zpsa2d8tybg.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/mags%20caps%201_zpsa2d8tybg.jpg.html)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/mags%20caps%202_zps3d5dknk7.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/mags%20caps%202_zps3d5dknk7.jpg.html)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/mags%20full%20collection_zps2i5zzo6v.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/mags%20full%20collection_zps2i5zzo6v.jpg.html)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss309/1967z28/January%202014/mags%20ink%20stamp_zpscnlx71fb.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/1967z28/media/January%202014/mags%20ink%20stamp_zpscnlx71fb.jpg.html)