CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Research Topics & Reports => Topic started by: bcmiller on March 16, 2011, 05:12:18 PM
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Several people are working on putting together original driveshaft information for 67-69 Camaros. Items of most interest at this point are below.
If you have an original driveshaft and would be willing to post information about your car, it would be very much appreciated. Here is what to include...
Year of car
Norwood or Los Angeles car
Month and week of vehicle assembly
Engine
Transmission
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)
Type of attachment to pinion yoke. There are two types: U bolts and the strap and bolts method.
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube.
Paint stripes and a picture (if possible)
Position of the u-joint flanges on each end. Some cars were "in-line" and others were "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other
Post in this thread if you want. If you would rather not post, but still contribute, send an email to me please. Thanks.
Bryon
*** Modified 3/18/2014 to remove casting number. Most don't have it and it is a forging number on the yoke. ***
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http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=914.0
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=980.0
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4623.0
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4425.0
You might find these helpful if you havenn't seen them already.
The original driveshaft in my my 69 RS, which I have owned since Nov 1991, 01C build date, had the driveshaft yokes offset one from another when I purchased the car. In July 1992 I had the driveshaft modified so as to put the yokes in phase. The original engine was not in my car when I acquired it in Nov 1991, but it was most likely a 307. The car has the original 2 speed Powerglide automatic and the original 2.73:1 open rear end. Pinion yoke, as I recall, is attached with straps.
I also have a spare driveshaft that I personally removed from a 69 Camaro that was being parted out in March 1994. This car was a base coupe with a 327, built around the 3rd week of November 68 (VIN# 124379N551248, engine code V1122FJ). Note: This engine now resides in my car. Not the original, but at least I do have a '69 Camaro engine in my ride. This parts car had a 3 speed manual, not sure about the rear end - undoubtedly a 10 bolt open but ratio is unknown. Yokes on the driveshaft are offset as well.
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Rich,
Thanks for those links. I had read most of them previously. The offset question is probably not one that can be easily answered, but I thought I would ask people who had originals to try to figure this out.
Maybe I should just take this one step at a time, but I figured if people were going to take the time to look at what they had it might be easiest to just get all the iinformation at once.
So for now...what I think I have figured out is the following for lengths. This is from AMA specs and some other Chevrolet sources. For 67 and 68 cars with the 396, different frame mounts for the engine were used which pulled the engine forward about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. Also note the holes for the 396 crossmember for use with a manual transmission had the transmission mounting holes about 3/4 inch forward. The PG, TH350, 3 speed manual and 4 speed manual transmissions are all close to 27 5/8 or 27 3/4 inches long (including bellhousing length). But the TH400 is slightly longer - around 28 1/4 inches.
67 and 68 Camaros used two different lengths. 49.96 inches for all applications except the 396 with manual trans which was 50.46 inches.
69 Camaros all used the same length, 49.56 inches. This appears to be due to the frame mounts all being the same for the big blocks and small blocks. Although I can't find anything listed, it seems the TH400 driveshaft should be slightly shorter.
So that is why I am looking for actual measurements, to confirm these numbers. If anyone has different information, please post it and list your source.
Bryon
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Is ANYBODY out there willing to measure your original driveshaft and provide that information?
Especially interested in Big Block cars...manual trans or TH400. Thanks.
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You have perfect timing, that's right where I'm at with my restoration. My car is a '67 V8 Coupe, 11 A, Los Angeles built. Has the standard 327 - 2 bbl. engine with Powerglide trans.. The Driveshaft length is 50 in.. I have not found the Casting #( I assume it's on the end flange)(I haven't got that far cleaning) The Rear end tube Code reads: PW 0919 G. The paint stripes are Orange/White(I've included a pic.) And the U-joint flanges are Clocked. Let me know if you really need that Casting#..
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I forgot to add it has U-bolts to attach the rear universal to the Rear-end input shaft.
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Several people are working on putting together original driveshaft information for 67-69 Camaros. Items of most interest at this point are below.
If you have an original driveshaft and would be willing to post information about your car, it would be very much appreciated. Here is what to include...
Year of car- 1968
Norwood or Los Angeles car- NOR
Month and week of vehicle assembly- 01B
Engine- MO
Transmission- M21
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)- will need to measure
Driveshaft casting number- ? need to look for that but did not notice one before
Type of attachment to pinion yoke. There are two types: U bolts and the strap and bolts method.- U bolts
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube.- BV1129
Paint stripes and a picture (if possible)- Picture of lime green looking paint stripes on trans. yoke.
Position of the u-joint flanges on each end. Some cars were "in-line" and others were "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other- in line
Post in this thread if you want. If you would rather not post, but still contribute, send an email to me please. Thanks.
Bryon
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_5731.jpg)
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Should have mentioned that the lime green type color paint was on both sides of the yoke. In the center of the drive shaft there must have been some type of sticker/tape as the lines around the entire shaft (where it was) are very defined and very virgn material. Something was there but what I have no idea....
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_5732.jpg)
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MyRed67 - sorry I could not find your name isted - thanks for that information. It goes along with what the length is supposed to be for 1967 Camaros with 6 cylinder and small block V8 - 49.96 inches. The information on the u bolts helps too. At this point, just started a database on the stripe colors. If you could, list the color of the stripes in order from front to back. I can't tell from the picture if the orange or white is toward the front. If you find the casting number, please post that too. Thanks.
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Chick, what car was that driveshaft from? Your 68 Z28?
If so can you post the length from center of u joint to center of u joint. Thanks.
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>>>bcmiller;
I am going to post another picture I took of the Driveshaft with measurements, I am going to use this as a diagram to restore the Driveshaft back to original condition.
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Thanks Mike.
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>> Bryon;
I am attaching a pic. of the front Driveshaft Yoke straight on. If you can decipher the part # you're better than me. This is actually a pretty good pic., #'s are just real hard to decipher. I'm guessing, but are the last 3 #'s on bottom row part of date code? I don't know how they coded these yokes, but my Steering Gear Box was day 276. Don't suppose this helps much, but it's the best I can do.
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Mike, yes tough to read. Thanks anyway and good luck on your restoration.
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Chick, what car was that driveshaft from? Your 68 Z28?
If so can you post the length from center of u joint to center of u joint. Thanks.
Yes, the drive shaft is off our 68 Z/28 and the length is 52 1/2". I found the part # on the yoke but its very difficult to read other than a couple numbers.
Edited 3/15/2014
Actually this is a 1969 drive shaft is from a 69.
Edited 3/15/2014
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I doubt there's any date info there - the yoke is a forging, not a casting, and the Chevy bowtie emblem indicates that it was made at the Chevrolet-Detroit Forge Plant; the number next to the bowtie symbol relates to the forging die set used to produce the yoke, not a date. Forgings weren't dated, but they carried the forging number for the part.
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Chick, what car was that driveshaft from? Your 68 Z28?
If so can you post the length from center of u joint to center of u joint. Thanks.
Yes, the drive shaft is off our 68 Z/28 and the length is 52 1/2". I found the part # on the yoke but its very difficult to read other than a couple numbers.
AMA specs for '68 state 50.46" c-c.
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Has there been any definitive conclusion on the drive shaft strip color coding for the 1st Gen drive shafts, specifically the '69 Z28?
The Muncie Transmission input shafts were different between the M20 versus the M21/M22 with the number of spine teeth. But were the output shaft splines the same on all three Muncies? If the output splines were different, did the draft shaft strip color codes reflect this?
Based on the related links, it appears that the orange/white stripe combination has been found on 1st Gens.
Thanks!
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Chick, what car was that driveshaft from? Your 68 Z28?
If so can you post the length from center of u joint to center of u joint. Thanks.
Yes, the drive shaft is off our 68 Z/28 and the length is 52 1/2". I found the part # on the yoke but its very difficult to read other than a couple numbers.
AMA specs for '68 state 50.46" c-c.
Thanks William! Bryon, the info I supplied was from what I believe to be a 69 Camaro auto. trans and not my 68 Z/28. What a mistake but I had the wrong drive shaft! The yoke on the one I reported on is larger and will not even fit in our M21. After William's comment I thought I better double check and yikes, screwed up on this one. Will report on the 68 Z shaft after I complete the intitial cleaning. Can tell you the yokes are offset and the length is approximately 50 1/2" in length.
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Chick, can you double check that measurement? I need the measurement from the center of one u joint to the center of the other. I believe it should be 49.96 inches for a 68 Z28. Thanks.
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The Muncie Transmission input shafts were different between the M20 versus the M21/M22 with the number of spine teeth. But were the output shaft splines the same on all three Muncies?
Based on Corvette specs, all Muncies through 1970 had 10-spline input shafts and 27-spline output shafts; that changed to 26/32 in 1971.
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Has there been any definitive conclusion on the drive shaft strip color coding for the 1st Gen drive shafts, specifically the '69 Z28?
The Muncie Transmission input shafts were different between the M20 versus the M21/M22 with the number of spine teeth. But were the output shaft splines the same on all three Muncies? If the output splines were different, did the draft shaft strip color codes reflect this?
Based on the related links, it appears that the orange/white stripe combination has been found on 1st Gens.
Thanks!
Dave we are still working on figuring out the driveshaft paint stripes. There were differerences, but so far we have not found anything written down. So we are looking at examples at this point.
As John says, all output splines on 67-69 Muncies were the same. The large 32 spline output shaft did not start until sometime in the 1970 model year and used the 3978764 tailhousing.
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Chick, what car was that driveshaft from? Your 68 Z28?
If so can you post the length from center of u joint to center of u joint. Thanks.
Yes, the drive shaft is off our 68 Z/28 and the length is 52 1/2". I found the part # on the yoke but its very difficult to read other than a couple numbers.
AMA specs for '68 state 50.46" c-c.
I could be wrong but I think those are the AMA specs for use with the 396 engine with manual transmission. I show 49.96 for all L6 and small block engines.
Kurt S., Ed B. and I have gone through all of the parts books and AMA specs and have come up with a list of numbers. I don't think we are quite ready to put those out there just yet.
The point of this thread is to find the lengths of ORIGINAL driveshafts to confirm what we have found so far.
If anyone has an ORIGINAL driveshaft and would be willing to share information it will be greatly appreciated.
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Original 1968 Z28, Norwood, 07C, 50 inches (or darn close), staggered yoke alignment, orange and white stripes (13 inches from centerline of yoke to center between the two stripes), attachment looks like u-bolts that are flattened where they go around the u-joint.
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Original 1968 Z28, Norwood, 07C, 50 inches (or darn close), staggered yoke alignment, orange and white stripes (13 inches from centerline of yoke to center between the two stripes), attachment looks like u-bolts that are flattened where they go around the u-joint.
Thanks for that information Jerry. I believe the 50 inches (49.96) and u-bolts are correct.
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1969 RS/SS Convert., built in Norwood 11D (1968), L48 engine (350 - 300 HP), M38 Trans. (Turbo 350), BR rear axle (3.07 12 bolt Posi) all original drivetrain. Driveshaft is approx. 49.5 inches c/c, clocked about 30 degrees, attached with straps to the pinion flange. Has 2 stripes, but color is gone, only discoloration remains.
boston14
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1969 RS/SS Convert., built in Norwood 11D (1968), L48 engine (350 - 300 HP), M38 Trans. (Turbo 350), BR rear axle (3.07 12 bolt Posi) all original drivetrain. Driveshaft is approx. 49.5 inches c/c, clocked about 30 degrees, attached with straps to the pinion flange. Has 2 stripes, but color is gone, only discoloration remains.
boston14
Thanks for all of that information Boston14. Exact length from 1969 AMA information says 49.56 inches. So yours appears correct. Thanks again.
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Took it out of my cleaner set up and it seemed to eye ball just under 50". Yoke ends have the staggered offset, U bolts, and beginning of orange/white stripe is just over 5" from centerline of yoke. Yoke had both orange and yellow paint on it. Plenty of orange paint on that yoke. When I flip it I will report any new findings. Some pictures:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_5811.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_5813.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_5814.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_5812.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_5809.jpg)
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Thanks for those pics.
Anybody out there have an original 396 car with original driveshaft?
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1969-Year of car
Norwood-Norwood or Los Angeles car
12B-Month and week of vehicle assembly
396-Engine
M20-Transmission
49.5-Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)
367-2 3790024?-Driveshaft casting number
strap and bolts-Type of attachment to pinion yoke. There are two types: U bolts and the strap and bolts method.
BS 1118 G2- Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube.
N/A-Paint stripes and a picture (if possible)
in-line-Position of the u-joint flanges on each end. Some cars were "in-line" and others were "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other
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1969
Norwood
06A-Month and week of vehicle assembly
427-Engine
M22-Transmission
49.5-Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint
3790024- Driveshaft casting number
strap and bolts-Type of attachment to pinion yoke.
BE 0610 G2- Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube.
N/A-Paint stripes
in-line-Position of the u-joint flanges on each end are in line.
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original driveshaft
1967
LOS
10B
L30 / 327-275hp
Powerglide
49.96 inches
orange then white stripe (front to back)
u-bolt attachment
couldn't find cstg dates - will look harder
u-joints are clocked approx 30 degrees
will forward pics later showing stripe placement and u-joint offset.
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1969
Norwood
06A-Month and week of vehicle assembly
427-Engine
M22-Transmission
in-line-Position of the u-joint flanges on each end are in line.
The most important question to be answered in any of this discussion (at least for 1969 IMO) is why the vast majority of driveshafts had offset u-joints and yet some of the more powerful engine / transmission options had the u-joints in phase.
From a pureley mechanical engineering perspective, in phase u-joints are correct.
In phase u-joints will theoretically maintain the same anglular relationship with respect to the horizontal at both ends of the driveshaft. If everything else works as designed, maintaining this constant angualr relationship will negate the constantaly changing angular velocity at one end of the driveshafti vs. the opposite end.
Out of phase u-joints, by definition, will not maintaitn the same angular relationship at both ends of the driveshaft......why GM / Chevy did this is one of the great mysteries of life.
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diff axle stamp PA0818G, see pics of stripe and phazing
stripes measured back fron center of u-joint cap at front of shaft
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The most important question to be answered in any of this discussion (at least for 1969 IMO) is why the vast majority of driveshafts had offset u-joints and yet some of the more powerful engine / transmission options had the u-joints in phase.
Rich I appreciate your input - but that is not why I started this thread.
That question has been tossed around for years and years. As for WHY?, I don't think we will ever find an answer to that question.
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Found two white paint marks when the other end of the driveshaft was soaked. The dimension (tape measure in pic) was from the centerline of the rear universal.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_5816.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_5817.jpg)
Both welded on Yokes are part # 3790024 and both seem to have a "318-2" beside the castings chevrolet embossed emblem. Notice the orange paint also.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_5829.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/100_5831.jpg)
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OK, I need to clarfiy something. The number that are on the yokes are not casting numbers, those are forging numbers. From what I have been able to find out so far, they are not Camaro specific, so they may not be of much use in this research.
But thanks for all of the information so far. Any PLEASE keep posting! Especially any 67 or 68 big block cars.
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Ok Bryon. I finally got a chance to get under the car so here you go:
Year of car - 1968
Norwood or Los Angeles car - Los Angeles
Month and week of vehicle assembly - 05D
Engine - Believed to be an L89 but original block MIA
Transmission - M21 (Not original)
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint) - 49.75" (plus or minus)
Driveshaft casting number - Unknown
Type of attachment to pinion yoke - U bolts
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube - BS0506G2 (3.31 Posi) and D168 casting date
Paint stripes and a picture (if possible) - White ?? and Orange?? (see picture)
Position of the u-joint flanges on each end - 30 degrees
My axle isn't original to the car but is correctly dated to the 05D build. Also note that there's some kind of writing in yellow (see 2nd picture below). I can't make out anything but an "M" so I have no idea if it's original or not, or what it says.
Ed
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Thanks Ed. It does look like white and orange stripes to me.
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Crawled underneath it Bryon. Here you go...
1969
Los Angeles
12A Ist wk of Dec. 68
350 L48
M38 Transmission
49.50"
U Bolt
BL1127G2 3.07:1, Non-Posi, 12 Bolt, Nov. 27, Detroit Gear & Axle Plant
30 degrees
Sorry, wasn't able to help with the color bands. As you can see it was painted over.
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Thanks Marty.
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Any original 67 or 68 big block TH400 cars out there???
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Anybody else want to post - please.
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68 Z28
04D-NOR
Original Drive-Train
49.50" with 30 degree on the U-joints.
U-bolts.
What looks like a white stripe at 13.5", couldn't make out an orange one.
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Thanks Paul.
I looked at one yesterday. 49.5 inches center of u joint to center of u joint.
The owner was about 90 percent sure that it was from a 1969 Camaro TH400
car that he junked out after it was wrecked about 30 years ago.
It had what appeared to be an original TH400 yoke on it. The u joints were in line.
I could not find any stripes on it.
Fixed typo
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Will crawl under mine [396/TH400] and report back soon
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Thanks Rob. That would be awesome.
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Ok, got my drive shaft out and can report some preliminaries.
Yokes are in-line.
Centers are 49.95"
Bolted straps on diff yoke.
But....seemingly not original as the u-joints are pinned, not 'C' clipped or snap ringed??
But....pins are OEM only?, replacement uni's are furnished with 'C' clips? If so, then where the heck did this shaft come from??
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Have an original 68 BB SS/RS drive shaft with original injected u-joints
Yokes are in-line.
Centers are 50".
Bolt straps on diff. yoke.
No visible paint strips but would like to clean to see if there are any.
What are you cleaning your driveshafts with and will it affect my original joints?
Bob
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Have an original 68 BB SS/RS drive shaft with original injected u-joints
Yokes are in-line.
Centers are 50".
Bolt straps on diff. yoke.
No visible paint strips but would like to clean to see if there are any.
What are you cleaning your driveshafts with and will it affect my original joints?
Bob
Wow, yours is pin injected as well !!! Are the pins orange in color?
Maybe mine is original after all and still with the factory u-joints.
I haven't noticed any stripes on mine as yet either, but I do have to clean off a thin layer of flat black which I had sprayed over the front half of the shaft many years ago.
Bob, do you know if that shaft was from a TH400 BB car?
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Rob,
Yes the pins are orange.
Yes the shaft is from a 68 BB TH400 that I bought brand new in 68.
Bob
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Excellent, thanks Bob, I'm v. happy now! :)
Bryon, will post more details and pics this weekend. It's winter here [Au.] , freezing cold and gets dark early.
I just can't get home quick enough atm to do much.
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Thanks Rob and Bob. Yes, it appears that a length of 49.96 inches is correct for 67 and 68 big block cars with TH400.
I can not say for sure, but the u joints you have are probably original.
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Anyone else with a 67 or 68 big block car and manual transmission with an original driveshaft who would like to share driveshaft info ?
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My spare driveshaft - donated from a car parted out a long time ago.
Year of car - 1969 (VIN# xxxxx9N551248)
Norwood or Los Angeles car - Norwood
Month and week of vehicle assembly - 11C
Engine - FJ (327 cid/210 HP with manual tranny)
Transmission - Saginaw 3 speed M15 manual
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint) - 49.50" (NOTE: Overall length is 55-1/8" from center of rear u-joint to end of spline)
Type of attachment to pinion yoke - u-bolts
Paint stripes and a picture - two located between 37 and 38.5" from center of rear u-joint. Not sure of color; could be two white or possibly one white and one light blue? - see pictures
Position of the u-joint flanges on each end - clocked
First of 4 posts
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Post 2 of 4
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Post 3 of 4
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Post 4 of 4
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Thanks Richard. Yes, tough to tell on the colors. 49.56 inches does appear original for your application.
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Yr. of car: '69
N or L: N
Mth/Wk: 06A (Actually last wk. of June '69) you guys know about 06A's
Engine: L48
Trans: M-20
Driveshaft length: 49.5"
Attachment to pinion yoke: U-bolts
Axle tube code: BM0625G (3.31 12 bolt open)
Stripes: Didn't see any, but driveshaft was previously painted
U-joint flanges: Clocked about 30 degrees
Sorry, not a big block but more information can't hurt.
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Thanks Dennis.
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68 SS RS 396 325 hp T-400, 02Ecar, PP on axle tube. 50" on driveshaft, straps and bolts, ujoints inline, injection molded in ujoints, Los car
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Thanks Charley. Those stripes are very interesting.
Do you know of any original 67 or 68 cars with a big block and a manual transmission that we can check the driveshafts on? I believe they are not they same length as other 67s and 68s.
Kurt and Ed, I think we might be getting close to having enough information to feel comfortable posting those numbers.
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Any more 67 or 68 big block manual transmission cars out there?
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anyond have info or pictures of 69z28 driveshafts
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1969 Z28 driveshaft was nothing special. 1969 AMA information says all Camaro driveshafts were 49.56 inches long. Still working on fine tuning the details.
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Hi, I have an original 23,000 mile 69 Z/28. My particular driveshaft has a part number stenciled on it. I don't see any others on this thread with anything similar, other than what Bertfam posted. The car is a Los Angeles build, 03B, 302 with M21. Photos:
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk64/69Hillbillybob/Camaro/Driveshaft1.jpg)
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk64/69Hillbillybob/Camaro/Driveshaft2.jpg)
I hope this will be some help in your research. I look forward to participating in this forum.
Bob
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Bob,
WOW, that is awesome. With that stenciled on there I would think there should be some stripes too.
Did you check the length from the center of 1 u joint to the center of the other?
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That's a Service replacement prop shaft, used for all except TH400 - they were furnished without the yoke and U-joints (unlike the production prop shaft assembly, which included the yoke and U-joints).
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Were the 67 to 69 Firebird drive shafts the same as the 67 to 69 Camaros ?
Thanks
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Were the 67 to 69 Firebird drive shafts the same as the 67 to 69 Camaros ?
Thanks
Part numbers were different. Length apparently for Firebirds 67-69 was 49.96 for all except TH400 cars which were 49.30 inches. Stripes apparently different than Camaro.
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were the yokes the same ? Will the drive shafts interchange ?
Thanks
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1967
L-48
M-20
Los Angeles
Build Nov 66
U-bolts
Clocked @ 30deg
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Well it depends. What year and what application driveshaft are you talking about? TH400 yoke is different than others. All 69 Camaro driveshafts were 49.56 inches long but yokes were different based on application.
were the yokes the same ? Will the drive shafts interchange ?
Thanks
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Tough to tell from the picture. Can you tell us stripe colors?
Also do you have a measurement from center of u joint to center of u joint?
1967
L-48
M-20
Los Angeles
Build Nov 66
U-bolts
Clocked @ 30deg
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Will a 1969 camaro driveshaft fit 1967 to 1969 firebirds ?
Sorry I guess I was referring to the U-joints not the yokes.......
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Length apparently for Firebirds 67-69 was 49.96 for all except TH400 cars which were 49.30 inches. All 69 Camaro driveshafts were 49.56 inches.
It may fit. You will just have to try it and see.
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69 Z/28
Norwood
03D Car
46.5" length of d/s not including the yoke
clocked
M-21
I will post pictures of stripes later
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I am going to go out on a limb and assume you meant 49.5 inches and not 46.5 inches. 8)
I look forward to the pics of the stripes. Thanks.
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Ok, got my drive shaft out and can report some preliminaries.
Yokes are in-line.
Centers are 49.95"
Bolted straps on diff yoke.
Engine, trans and build as per my sig.
Hi Bryon, sorry for my absence. More info to report.
Have found the orange paint stripe on mine @ 12" approx from the transmission yoke center and what appears to be the green stripe a bit further down - more cleaning needed for that one.
(http://members.iinet.net.au/~dream/images/crg/paint%20stripes.jpg)
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Thanks Rob. Check the picture above that Charley posted. You may have more than 2 stripes.
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Anybody else ?
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I have a early 69 396 with TH 400, built 1st week in November.Norwood car. All drivetrain original 63K. Drive shaft overall center to center 49 1/4"
U-joints in line. E-clips on caps. Orange stripe 17 1/4" from front, then maybe light blue or green, then dark blue.
Hard to tell I'll post pictures. I am surprised at all the variations.
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Missed a picture
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My 67 big block manual is I believe 50.5. Best I remember. We know Big block shafts are longer
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NoYenko - thanks for posting those pictures!
plumL78 - if you could check that measurement for sure, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
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Anybody else?
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Here are some pics of my 69 Z28, LA built, 02C, M20, 49.5 inches, rear strap, BU 0117 G2, clocked 30 degrees, orange and white stripes with a purple splash closer to the yoke, Also shows some orange on yoke.
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Thanks 67pacer! Much appreciated.
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Finally remembered to post this:
67 LOS, 11B build, L48 w/ Pglide
49.5 inches center to center, yokes are # 3790024 rear is 280A and front 280D
U bolts, axle is PC1031G 3:31, yokes are clocked
(http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/RAP617983/Camaro/Driveshaft/IMG_1700.jpg)
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Thanks Petes L48
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Anybody else?
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1968 z28 , norwood, 03c, 302, muncie m20, 49.96 length, ubolt and nut design, bu-0214-g1 axle stamp, 2 strips about 12 down from top, staggered alignment.
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Thanks 302V8.
Are the stripes white and orange?
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The strips are so faint, the look white to me. thanks.
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Finally remembered to post this:
67 LOS, 11B build, L48 w/ Pglide
49.5 inches center to center, yokes are # 3790024 rear is 280A and front 280D
U bolts, axle is PC1031G 3:31, yokes are clocked
(http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/RAP617983/Camaro/Driveshaft/IMG_1700.jpg)
Replaced my front u-joint this weekend and found orange and light green paint markings on the yoke:
(http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/RAP617983/Camaro/Driveshaft/IMG_1736.jpg)
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Thanks Pete!
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I think that I know why there is a 1/2 inch difference in driveshaft lengths between the '67-68 and '69 driveshafts but want info to verify. I believe it is because there is a difference in lengths of the transmission yokes being used for these years. Can anyone measure their transmission yokes from center of u-joint to end of yoke and report their findings. Be sure to include what year yours is. They should measure either 4.875 inches or 5.5 inches.
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My '69 L48 is 5.5 inches. I thought when we rebuilt the driveshaft it was the wrong one but checking another for verification it was correct. My driveshaft is also clocked and that brought on a bunch of weird looks and a big discussion at the shop until the post about the drivehsafts come up.
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My '69 L48 is 5.5 inches. I thought when we rebuilt the driveshaft it was the wrong one but checking another for verification it was correct. My driveshaft is also clocked and that brought on a bunch of weird looks and a big discussion at the shop until the post about the drivehsafts come up.
So I am guessing that your driveshaft measures approximately 49.5 inches long. If you had a driveshaft that measures closer to 50.0 inches long I would guess the transmission yoke to measure 4.875 inches long.
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I just joined so Im new to this forum. I do have a 67 convertible camaro origianlly with a 6cy. and a 50" driveline on a PG. I removed the PG and engine for a TH400 and a 454.
The driveline fit but it has NO room for movement.
The Th400 has 31 splines i believe.
I need approx 1/2 to 3/4 inch more room.
Im going to order it from "Inland Empire Driveline" and go pick it up as i live in OC.
They have a website with all the pertinent info to order a correct one. Looks like they come with 1310 Spicers.
FRom what I gather, the big block sits back a little and thus I need a shorter driveline.
I will ask the guys tomorrow and just order it new, as I dont want any problems from not having enough room for movement, however, I do believe the original big block 49.5" would have worked.
The one I currently have is 50" from center of U-joints.
This forum helped me get my measurements correct.
louis
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Before you order the new shaft, check your motor mounts. I think there were different mounts for small block, big block, and 6 cyls. I am told you can move the engine forward or backward a little bit by using different mounts. Might be worth a little time.
tom
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I think that I know why there is a 1/2 inch difference in driveshaft lengths between the '67-68 and '69 driveshafts but want info to verify. I believe it is because there is a difference in lengths of the transmission yokes being used for these years. Can anyone measure their transmission yokes from center of u-joint to end of yoke and report their findings. Be sure to include what year yours is. They should measure either 4.875 inches or 5.5 inches.
I don't think that is the reason for the different lengths. From above...here is what I have been able to find out...
For 67 and 68 cars with the 396, different frame mounts for the engine were used which pulled the engine forward about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. Also note the holes for the 396 cross member for use with a manual transmission had the transmission mounting holes about 3/4 inch forward. The PG, TH350, 3 speed manual and 4 speed manual transmissions are all close to 27 5/8 or 27 3/4 inches long (including bellhousing length). But the TH400 is slightly longer - around 28 1/4 inches.
67 and 68 Camaros used two different lengths. 49.96 inches for all applications except the 396 with manual trans which was 50.46 inches.
69 Camaros all used the same length, 49.56 inches. This appears to be due to the frame mounts all being the same for the big blocks and small blocks. Although I can't find anything listed, it seems the TH400 driveshaft should be slightly shorter.
So that is why I am looking for actual measurements, to confirm these numbers.
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Anybody else?
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I have original unrestored drive shaft, The car is 67 04A norwood convertible, 250 engine 3 speed manual trans, measurement form u joint to u joint is 50".
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67conv6cyl,
Thank You! That does fit with the the expected original length.
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I realize this is an old thread but thought I would keep it going with what I found on my driveshaft when I took it out this past weekend.
Year of car: '68
Norwood or Los Angeles car: Norwood
Month and week of vehicle assembly: 01D
Engine: 396
Transmission: TH400
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint): 50 inches
Driveshaft casting number: ??
Type of attachment to pinion yoke: Strap and bolts
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube: BY 0207G1
Paint stripes and a picture: Shown below
Position of the u-joint flanges on each end: In-line
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Thanks Bob!
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The second photo in reply #106 (Bob) is the first Camaro driveshaft I've ever seen with the heavy-duty Saginaw-type nylon-injected yokes and trunnions (vs. the usual retaining-ring design); I've only seen the injected design before on full-size cars with concentric isolation dampers.
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John,
Yes. Needless to say, I was extremely surprised to see the pins when I pulled the driveshaft out during my restoration. I quickly began my search to try to figure out what was going on and ran across across this thread:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8333.0
Of course I can't say with 100% certainty that this is the original born-with driveshaft, but I can assure you that in my 35 years of owning this car the driveshaft has never been removed. The other thing that I found odd was that the date code (0207) on my rear axle tube is one week after the build date (01D) of the car. Again, I found this odd and from what my research has found, GM had a strike right around the time my car was built and may have resulted in some parts being delayed from their suppliers. I also found this issue on my brake booster which is date 038. Could some parts have been changed during previous ownership? Maybe, but from what I'm uncovering during my restoration there are a few more parts that seem out of sequence with the build date of the car. I'd be curious to know what others have found with cars built around this time frame.
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The second photo in reply #106 (Bob) is the first Camaro driveshaft I've ever seen with the heavy-duty Saginaw-type nylon-injected yokes and trunnions (vs. the usual retaining-ring design); I've only seen the injected design before on full-size cars with concentric isolation dampers.
Hi John,
Here is the front yoke on my 67 4B LOS with the original 396/TH400 + drive shaft that uses injection.
The rear used the injection too.
Mike
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Mike, if you have not posted your information earlier, I would really appreciate it if you would. This is what we are looking for. If you already posted - Thanks!
If you have an original driveshaft and would be willing to post information about your car, it would be very much appreciated. Here is what to include...
Year of car
Norwood or Los Angeles car
Month and week of vehicle assembly
Engine
Transmission
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)
Driveshaft casting number
Type of attachment to pinion yoke. There are two types: U bolts and the strap and bolts method.
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube.
Paint stripes and a picture (if possible)
Position of the u-joint flanges on each end. Some cars were "in-line" and others were "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other
Bryon
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I found some more information in this thread link.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=151164
1967 Z28 w/ M21 - 1 white 1 orange
1968 L78 w/ M21 - 1 orange 1 green 1 white -18 inches from trans yoke
Images attached
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68 Z 04 D Norwood OE 302 , M21 ,4:10's ,axles ,rear end ,tubes etc...
staggered yokes ,50" on center ,or @## close.
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Hard to make out with re size: orange/yellow on front yoke. white orange white stripes. replaced joints once ,never rebalanced.
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Pics are too small to see any details. If you want to send pics of the stripes to me, I can try to post them. Thanks!
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Does anybody else want to share data?
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Bump...
Anybody else have data to share?
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Year of car 1969
Norwood car
Month and week of vehicle assembly 12B
Engine 396
Transmission M20
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)49.56 in.
Driveshaft casting number ?
Type of attachment to pinion yoke. strap and bolts method.
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube. BS
Paint stripes –none left
Position of the u-joint flanges= "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other
I have an extra driveshaft from a friends 69 396. He parted it out back around 1990 and gave me some parts. It is the same as my original. No stripes visible on either. MAy show up evidence if I clean them (sand) Will get to other 2 cars as time permits.
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Thank You James. That is the correct length as far as I know. All 69s should be the same length.
If you do some cleaning, I would not use anything abrasive. Try some WD40 first to see what that does.
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Year of car 1969
Norwood car
Month and week of vehicle assembly 12B
Engine 396
Transmission M20
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)49.56 in.
Driveshaft casting number ?
Type of attachment to pinion yoke. strap and bolts method.
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube. BS
Paint stripes –none left
Position of the u-joint flanges= "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other
I have an extra driveshaft from a friends 69 396. He parted it out back around 1990 and gave me some parts. It is the same as my original. No stripes visible on either. MAy show up evidence if I clean them (sand) Will get to other 2 cars as time permits.
Bentley, I think sanding the drive shaft will totally remove any remaining paint residue (along wtih the surface rust) as it did on mine. The best method I've seen used is 'soaking' the driveshaft in Metal Rescue, or the harbor Frieght Label "evapoRust". Both those products work very well. I'd degrease the driveshaft, then rig up a tight bathing fixture; some of the guys used a large PVC (that just fit the drive shaft yokes, make it long enough, glue on one end cap, and use the other as pushon/off. Put the driveshaft in, and fill to the top with the EvapoRust or Metal Rescue.. from what I've seen here and on TC, it works super... :)
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Thanks, Bryon/Gary I may try this. Shaft has surface rust and I thought it was too far gone as far as ever finding paint, but worth a try, I guess. I do believe the original U joints are still in the shaft though. They have a dimple aprox.1/2 in, diam on each side with a letter in the bottom...kinda hard to see at this point. There are clips on the ends like snap rings.
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This is for the blue car:
Year of car 1969
Norwood car
Month and week of vehicle assembly 11D
Engine L48 350/300
Transmission TH350
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)49.56 in.
Driveshaft casting number ?
Type of attachment to pinion yoke. strap and bolts method.
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube. BS
Paint stripes –none left
Position of the u-joint flanges= "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other
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Yellow Car:
Year of car 1969
Norwood car
Month and week of vehicle assembly 3E
Engine 307/200 hp
Transmission Saginaw M20 4 spd.
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)49.56 in.
Driveshaft casting number ?
Type of attachment to pinion yoke. U-Bolts.
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube. PA 3.08 10 blt. Single track
Paint stripes –none left
Position of the u-joint flanges= "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other
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James - thanks for the data!
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looked at my driveshaft tonight, wide orange stripe near the front. u-bolts in rear to hold it in. black `69 z28 03E norwood car with muncie m20 trans. will measure length and check offset in a week or so, did`nt jack car up but saw the stripe amid 45 years of not being cleaned. there may be a another stripe but did`nt see it. i`ll try to post a pic, going to do some work soon on it for the summer :)
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Thanks Eldon, yes please post any additional information when you have a chance.
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This is the information for my 1969 Camaro that I bought out of Phoenix Arizona in the 1990s. It shows 25,000 miles and is still very original.
Los Angeles built
12D of '68
396-325
M20 4 speed
Drive shaft length 49.56
straps and bolts
Both original Bow Tie u-joints still in place
Clocked 30 degrees
BR 3.07 Posi Has 3.73 gears now.
No paint stripes
Clint
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Thanks Clint!
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We are getting close to working on a report for driveshafts.
I may be contacting some of you soon to see if I can get your permission to use some of your photos.
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If anyone has any more data to share it would be appreciated.
Specifically requesting any pics of the stripes on driveshafts from TH350 cars right now.
Thanks!
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I finally got around to crawling under the 67 to find this info. Hopefully it is helpful.
Here is what I found:
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 BB with 400 TH auto.
LOS car built 03C third week of March 67
driveshaft length from center yoke to yoke 50" or very close to it
attachment to pinion yoke with straps - injection on other joints
Code on rear axle is Q W 0 ? 0 7 G 1 (the 4th digit is hidden behind axle clamp, I wasn't going to move it) It seems that these numbers were more left on the axle than in the place that is stated in the pictures. I had a hard time finding it till I looked and wire brushed it more to the left.
I found 2 paint stripes on the shaft, From the front to the rear appears to be orange and the rear possibly green? but i am somewhat colorblind in that color! Spaced about 6 inches apart and about an inch wide, more near the front.
position of the u joint flanges are "inline".
Hope this helps you all.
Leon in Mn.
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Parts car: 9N584420 6cyl. glide, Axle= (10 bolt 2.73 single track) BP0122G2
Other than shoddy bodywork, 1/4's replaced, repaint and being rusted out,the car appeared to be in a mostly untouched, original, low mile all GM car.
Year of car 1969
Norwood car
Month and week of vehicle assembly =2nd week of Jan. (est.)
Engine= 6 cyl
Transmission= P-Glide
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)49.56 in.
Driveshaft casting number ?
Type of attachment to pinion yoke.= U-Bolts.
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube.= BP 2.73 10 blt. Single track
Paint stripes –none left
Position of the u-joint flanges= "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other
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welcome to use my pics
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Thanks Guys !!!
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BC,
Here is some data points: 1968 LA 05C, 396 (MW), M-21 BR rear end, 50 1/2"Drive shaft, in-line, U-bolts, Three stripes near the yoke (orange, orange (or maybe blue), and white.
The car should be a 05B, but 05A and 05B's don't exist
Victor
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vtfb68,
Thank You. Can you get a pic of the stripes?
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bc,
Can you PM me your e-mail or cell number ? I am unable to post. The pictures are in my phone.
VT
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bc, Can you PM me your e-mail or cell number ? I am unable to post. The pictures are in my phone. VT
VT - pm sent.
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BC,
My yoke is marked with sublime green paint.
Victor
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vtfb68,
The pics you sent to my email were too small to use. Can you send larger files to my email please?
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BC,
My yoke is marked with sublime green paint.
Victor
.. 'sublime'? someone has replaced your yoke with a '70's Dodge product! :)
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Yeah, maybe. They stamped a lot of PTB's on Norwood built cars too.
VT
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My driveshaft appears to have both u joints marked
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Parts car: 9N584420 6cyl. glide, Axle= (10 bolt 2.73 single track) BP0122G2
Other than shoddy bodywork, 1/4's replaced, repaint and being rusted out,the car appeared to be in a mostly untouched, original, low mile all GM car.
Year of car 1969
Norwood car
Month and week of vehicle assembly =2nd week of Jan. (est.)
Engine= 6 cyl
Transmission= P-Glide
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)49.56 in.
Driveshaft casting number ?
Type of attachment to pinion yoke.= U-Bolts.
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube.= BP 2.73 10 blt. Single track
Paint stripes –Edit(12-17-15) Orange & White
Position of the u-joint flanges= "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other
Edited D.S. color
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Parts car: 9N584420 6cyl. glide, Axle= (10 bolt 2.73 single track) BP0122G2
Other than shoddy bodywork, 1/4's replaced, repaint and being rusted out,the car appeared to be in a mostly untouched, original, low mile all GM car.
Year of car 1969
Norwood car
Month and week of vehicle assembly =2nd week of Jan. (est.)
Engine= 6 cyl
Transmission= P-Glide
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)49.56 in.
Driveshaft casting number ?
Type of attachment to pinion yoke.= U-Bolts.
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube.= BP 2.73 10 blt. Single track
Paint stripes –Edit(12-17-15) Orange & White
Position of the u-joint flanges= "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other
Edited D.S. stripe colors
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?action=post;msg=122493;topic=7861.135#
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OK, got it. 1969, 6 cylinder with PG and 2.73 ten bolt open.
Thank You!
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Summarizing from my post to a different thread re my driveshaft (I had previously posted that I'd cleaned and painted my driveshaft long ago, but that driveshaft was from my Nomad, not the Z28.. thankfully!).. So I found my original driveshaft and cleaned, measured it and photographed it.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14017.15
Car: 09C (late) '69 Z28 with 302, M20 and 3.73 posi rear gear (all original to the car) owned since 1976, not driven since 1980.
Drive shaft length: 49-5/8" from U-joint center to U-joint center.
Paint stripes: Orange and White stripes at the 11-13" mark from the Yoke end; yellow splash around 10" along...
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1. 68
2. NOR
3. 03D
4. L78
5. M21
6. 50.5"
7. U bolts
8. BT
9. Hard to tell at this point but appear to be orange and white. Possibly a 3rd
10. In-line
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Additional pics
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Thanks Darrell. I think there should be a third stripe. Hard to see, but might be there?
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67
NOR
05A
L78
M20
50.5
U bolt
PJ0328G2
Orange stripe and possibly a white stripe.
Flanges in line
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67
NOR
05A
L78
M20
50.5
U bolt
PJ0328G2
Orange stripe and possibly a white stripe.
Flanges in line
Thanks for the information!
Any chance there could be more than 2 stripes?
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Thank You Gary! Sorry, I guess I must have forgotten to reply to this earlier. Merry Christmas! Glad the driveshaft turned out good.
Summarizing from my post to a different thread re my driveshaft (I had previously posted that I'd cleaned and painted my driveshaft long ago, but that driveshaft was from my Nomad, not the Z28.. thankfully!).. So I found my original driveshaft and cleaned, measured it and photographed it.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14017.15
Car: 09C (late) '69 Z28 with 302, M20 and 3.73 posi rear gear (all original to the car) owned since 1976, not driven since 1980.
Drive shaft length: 49-5/8" from U-joint center to U-joint center.
Paint stripes: Orange and White stripes at the 11-13" mark from the Yoke end; yellow splash around 10" along...
(http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14017.0;attach=18357;image)
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BC,
Looks likes only two stripes but it's real hard to tell for sure. I can try to post some pics for you.
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Sounds good. Thanks!
Oh and you can call me Bryon if you want. 😀
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lol.. Ok BC..
(http://www.camaros.org/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif) (http://www.camaros.org/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif) (http://www.camaros.org/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
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No problem. I have been called a lot worse. :)
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Just recently at the MCACN show I had lunch with one of my Cleveland Chevelle car buddies and his friend. In talking with them I found out they both worked at the Chevrolet plant in Parma Ohio back in the mid to late 60's. My buddy is about 68 ish now.
They said they were both involved with drive shaft's and balancing, they made shafts for more than several Chevrolets'.
I specifically ask if they knew anything about the strips, they explained that when doing the code stripes, and while the shaft was still in the ballancing fixture, the guy might hold several paint brushes at a time while the shaft turned in the fixture.
So the one reason to post all this, they both indicated to me that one the the 3 strips was a shift code. If it was consistent, who knows ? And if not, that may explain why you'll see only two stipes at times.
Mike
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Bryon,
Finally got a picture of my driveshaft.
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Thank you!
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Here's the driveshaft out of my 69 Z.
(http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx200/Firebirdjones1/P1250002_zpsb293psg1.jpg) (http://s755.photobucket.com/user/Firebirdjones1/media/P1250002_zpsb293psg1.jpg.html)
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I wanted to add a little more info while doing the de-rusting process.
Casting numbers
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4833_zpsnheqn4yt.jpg) (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/cook_dw/media/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4833_zpsnheqn4yt.jpg.html)
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4832_zpsvbmcvn1x.jpg) (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/cook_dw/media/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4832_zpsvbmcvn1x.jpg.html)
Paint markings from yoke side down - Orange Green White
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4831_zps4hjm5lui.jpg) (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/cook_dw/media/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4831_zps4hjm5lui.jpg.html)
Some type of green dab of paint below the stipes. Will know more once rust conversion is finished.
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4830_zpspbo9acbf.jpg) (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/cook_dw/media/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4830_zpspbo9acbf.jpg.html)
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Still soaking but I am starting to see the paint stripes better and better.. Also looks like whoever it was doing the painting grabbed it while it was still wet.
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4844_zpsc2uxe2sk.jpg) (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/cook_dw/media/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4844_zpsc2uxe2sk.jpg.html)
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4845_zpspu4wgwj0.jpg) (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/cook_dw/media/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4845_zpspu4wgwj0.jpg.html)
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4846_zpskswwacvq.jpg) (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/cook_dw/media/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4846_zpskswwacvq.jpg.html)
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Thanks Darrell. I was expecting three stripes for an L78. :)
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What is the functional difference in BB (L78?) and SB driveshafts??
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Length is the only thing I am aware of.. I assume the striping could be for the passing of RPM tests..??.. Bryon may know more..
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OK. I wasn't aware of the length difference... So there's no strength/diameter/wall thickness difference? In the factory they needed a quick visual reference to help them grab the correct part for the car coming down the line, and the length being different would be sufficient to justify the striping difference.
PS. I've never owned a big block... A mighty mouse is more than GOOD!.. :) but if a car part from a BB car can be used on a SB car, I'm interested.. :)
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I dont think its just striping for bb vs sb. auto bb's had a different stripping as well.. Would like to see a compiled list of data.. Come on Bryon!! ;D
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Yep, I suppose the Driveshaft Survey Table will tell us all the differences... :)
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Have been working on a driveshaft report for about 4 years. It's close to being ready for release. :)
Length and yoke type are the main differences.
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You would be right Mr. Cook. That holds true in the Pontiac world and have seen a lot of those differences restoring Pontiacs. Transmission choice does have an effect on the striping colors and configurations. I'm sure Chevrolet does the same thing.
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Yep, I suppose the Driveshaft Survey Table will tell us all the differences... :)
Close but not quite. :)
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Some info on my car....
69 Camaro
Norwood
10C build
396 (402) - TH400
Bolted u joints
rear end - BL - non-posi 3.08
3 stripes -from the front - orange, green, violet
hope this helps....
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I wanted to add this to the driveshaft info.
Decided to derust the yoke last night. Found another nice paint marking..
(http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/02/full-1263-39699-img_1371.jpg)
(http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/02/full-1263-39700-img_1373.jpg)
(http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/02/full-1263-39701-img_1380.jpg)
(http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/02/full-1263-39702-img_1381.jpg)
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Some info on my car....
69 Camaro
Norwood
10C build
396 (402) - TH400
Bolted u joints
rear end - BL - non-posi 3.08
3 stripes -from the front - orange, green, violet
hope this helps....
Yes it does help! Thank You! Could you do one more thing please? Measure the length from the center of one u joint to the center of the other u joint. Having some help to hold one end would be best. Try to get the measurement to the closest 1/16th of an inch.
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I wanted to add this to the driveshaft info.
Decided to derust the yoke last night. Found another nice paint marking..
Thank You Darrell. Good pics.
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Some info on my car....
69 Camaro
Norwood
10C build
396 (402) - TH400
Bolted u joints
rear end - BL - non-posi 3.08
3 stripes -from the front - orange, green, violet
hope this helps....
That tape measure: Is that from the lip of the tube or center of yoke or ?
10C Build is tha?t 68 or 69
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ko..
I checked my pics.. the tape measure is from the lip of the tube.
Its a Oct 69 build.
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I measured the total length...eye-to-eye...looks like 49 1/16 inch
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If you could...please measure from the center of one u joint to the center of the other.
Another way of saying that is "the center of each cap or cup that holds the needle bearings for the u joint".
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Still soaking but I am starting to see the paint stripes better and better..
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/cook_dw/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4844_zpsc2uxe2sk.jpg) (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/cook_dw/media/1968%20Rallye%20Green%20L78%20Camaro/IMG_4844_zpsc2uxe2sk.jpg.html)
Looks good! Thanks for the pic!
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Would really like to have more data on any late 68 or 69 cars with the TH350 transmission.
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Bump
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i can offer some info on my `69z, needs all the rubber replaced on the brake system so i`ll have all the wheels off it soon and will take some pics for you if needed. i can see the stripes on the driveshaft just looking under it so i know there is at least one visible.
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That would be great Eldon. It most likely has one orange and one white stripe, but if you could confirm, I would appreciate it. :)
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will do, I`m bringing it to the Street machine nationals this weekend in St.Paul Mn. so when the show is done sunday it`s time for the brake restoration.
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Eldon, did you have time to check your driveshaft?
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Bump.
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Does anyone have any info on the driveshaft for a 1967 L78 4K Camaro? Trying to verify mine.
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The question is why are the U-joints out-of-phase?
The answer is for reducing vibrations.
Graph the power through a single U-joint and a sine wave is drawn. The joint speeds up, positive arc, and slows down, negative arc.
Add another U-joint and its power graph will have the same sine wave.
Add the two sine waves, if they are in-phase on the same shaft, and amplitude doubles, meaning the resultant twist is noticeable.
By offsetting one joint by 30°, decreases the amplitude of the associated twist, less vibration.
Now, driveshaft's having been built forever, and 1st Gen driveshaft's are different from typical design, may be due to the extreme angularity of drivetrain design on Camaro, i.e., wheelbase, length of shaft, OD and wall thickness, and critical speed of driveshaft.
Critical speed is important - it is rocket science. JMT's
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Does anyone have any info on the driveshaft for a 1967 L78 4K Camaro? Trying to verify mine.
What are the specs on the one you have?
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The question is why are the U-joints out-of-phase?
The answer is for reducing vibrations.
Graph the power through a single U-joint and a sine wave is drawn. The joint speeds up, positive arc, and slows down, negative arc.
Add another U-joint and its power graph will have the same sine wave.
Add the two sine waves, if they are in-phase on the same shaft, and amplitude doubles, meaning the resultant twist is noticeable.
By offsetting one joint by 30°, decreases the amplitude of the associated twist, less vibration.
Now, driveshaft's having been built forever, and 1st Gen driveshaft's are different from typical design, may be due to the extreme angularity of drivetrain design on Camaro, i.e., wheelbase, length of shaft, OD and wall thickness, and critical speed of driveshaft.
Critical speed is important - it is rocket science. JMT's
The aren’t all “clocked” or out if phase.
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The aren’'t all “clocked” or out if phase.
True, I would think it depended upon application/options.
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The question is why are the U-joints out-of-phase?
The answer is for reducing vibrations.
Graph the power through a single U-joint and a sine wave is drawn. The joint speeds up, positive arc, and slows down, negative arc.
Add another U-joint and its power graph will have the same sine wave.
Add the two sine waves, if they are in-phase on the same shaft, and amplitude doubles, meaning the resultant twist is noticeable.
By offsetting one joint by 30°, decreases the amplitude of the associated twist, less vibration.
Now, driveshaft's having been built forever, and 1st Gen driveshaft's are different from typical design, may be due to the extreme angularity of drivetrain design on Camaro, i.e., wheelbase, length of shaft, OD and wall thickness, and critical speed of driveshaft.
Critical speed is important - it is rocket science.
I have to disagree - that’s not how a double Cardan joint (U-joint) works. Refer to page 3, 3rd post of this thread and search : driveshaft, rich69rs for other posts where this has been discussed previously.
I have my theory as to why Chevy did this - but since the forum hasn’t pursued the question seriously, I haven’t either. Of all the driveshafts built by all the auto makers, over all the years, ‘69 Camaro, SB, TH350, manual, and Powerglide got offset yokes, yet, as I recall BB w/TH400 transmissions didn’t???
As far as critical speeed (resonance) goes, offsetting the yokes will definitely stiffen the driveshaft and shift a natural frequency(cies) up - but at the expense of proper operation of a double u-joint system which is designed to keep the included angles of the driveshaft equal at all times.
With offset yokes, the included angle between the differential and the driveshaft will be different at all times from the included angle between the driveshaft and the transmission. Stiffer driveshaft system? Undoubtedly. Ideal for loading on either the diff or tans? Not so much. I modified my driveshaft to in line yokes back in 1991.
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As you say, my theory also, anything is possible.
Here I have two shafts from'67 L6/PG/2.73, and one from '68 V8/PG/3.08 - don't know the application of those shown - over 40 thing
Shafts measured from shaft yoke to shaft yoke, overall
Short one is 50 inches overall by 2 3/4 inch diameter
Long one is 51 3/8 inches by 2 inch diameter
Critical speed is dependent upon OD, wall thickness, material, and length.
Just my theory.
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Some of the Firebird Turbo 400 driveshafts also had inline yokes. I have one in my garage.
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My 68 maybe Z28 is an 07B and the shaft has yellow and white paint swabs. The yokes are in line.
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Thanks Chris, for Z28 I believe should be orange and white stripes. Faded orange can look like yellow.
Can you get a measurement center of u joint to center of u joint? Thanks!
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As you say, my theory also, anything is possible.
Here I have two shafts from'67 L6/PG/2.73, and one from '68 V8/PG/3.08 - don't know the application of those shown - over 40 thing
Shafts measured from shaft yoke to shaft yoke, overall
Short one is 50 inches overall by 2 3/4 inch diameter
Long one is 51 3/8 inches by 2 inch diameter
Critical speed is dependent upon OD, wall thickness, material, and length.
Just my theory.
49.96 is the length for most 67 and 68 Driveshafts. The other one is too long for any stock 67-69 Camaro.
Are you sure on your tube diameters or are you measuring the yoke?
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Just adding to the list of offset driveshaft end yokes. My 68 definitely had the offset U joints. Z28, M21 with a 4.88 rear ratio. Built late Dec 67 or early 68. Can't remember. 124378N3561xx.
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Thank you Michael.
Complete report available here at the link below.
http://www.camaros.org/driveshaft.shtml
Send me a private message, I would like to hear more about your car.
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I know the Driveshaft Report is out but I want to share information on my original owner 1969 Camaro SS L78 with M22 transmission. The car is
02D (1969). The driveshaft is not phased and the markings are Orange and Blue. The driveshaft has never been removed from car and it is very low mileage. I'm sure of the color makings. It uses straps at the differential. Differential is positraction 4.10 ratio.
I also have another original owner 1969 Camaro SS L48 with M20 transmission. The car is 11C (1968). The driveshaft is phased and the markings are long gone. It uses straps at the differential. Original owner but high mileage. Differential is positraction 3.70 ratio.
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I know the Driveshaft Report is out but I want to share information on my original owner 1969 Camaro SS L78 with M22 transmission. The car is
02D (1969). The driveshaft is not phased and the markings are Orange and Blue. The driveshaft has never been removed from car and it is very low mileage. I'm sure of the color makings. It uses straps at the differential. Differential is positraction 4.10 ratio.
I also have another original owner 1969 Camaro SS L48 with M20 transmission. The car is 11C (1968). The driveshaft is phased and the markings are long gone. It uses straps at the differential. Original owner but high mileage. Differential is positraction 3.70 ratio.
Can you post a pic of the 1969 L78 driveshaft? Or send it to me?
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Some info on my car....
69 Camaro
Norwood
10C build
396 (402) - TH400
Bolted u joints
rear end - BL - non-posi 3.08
3 stripes -from the front - orange, green, violet
hope this helps....
Just did some looking at my drive shaft & it matches his. Same equipment, born date Aug 28 1969......Joe
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Some info on my car....
69 Camaro
Norwood
10C build
396 (402) - TH400
Bolted u joints
rear end - BL - non-posi 3.08
3 stripes -from the front - orange, green, violet
hope this helps....
Just did some looking at my drive shaft & it matches his. Same equipment, born dat Aug 28 1969......Joe
Thanks Joe. Could you post any pics or send to me?
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Sure. Let me see if I can get a good picture...Joe
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Question......my 67 LOS L35 w/TH400 has the original driveshaft with the nylon injected yoke and trunnions .....do you think that these can cause issues from age?
Mike
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Question......my 67 LOS L35 w/TH400 has the original driveshaft with the nylon injected yoke and trunnions .....do you think that these can cause issues from age?
Mike
I certainly think that is possible. I love originality but when choosing between that and safety, safety always wins. You could put it on the bench and do a careful inspection to see if anything is loose before replacing.
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Hello all, hope someone can help me with my confusion. I've ordered u-joints from 2 different sources, based on the vehicle specifics, but when I got them, the first ones didn't fit the pinion yoke. Reordered and then they didn't fit the driveshaft yoke. This lead me to read through the CRG driveshaft report, several times along with this 14 page thread. I thought I had the original correct driveshaft, but know I don't think so. The car is a 68 10A L35/TH400 car. The 12 bolt rear has a pinion yoke that takes straps and cap screws, with 1.06 dia. bearing caps but the width is @3 1/2". Cant seem to find a u-joint with the correct dimensions. If I've read the resources right, the driveshaft should be 49.96" length, in-line yokes, with HD u-joints (at both ends?) If this is correct, I'll need a combination u-joint at the rear that has the wider, large diameter caps on one axis, and the smaller 1.06 caps with the same width on the other? The driveshaft I have is 49.96, has small standard u-joint on one end, and TH400 yoke with injection molded HD u-joint at the other. Any help is appreciated.
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Hello all, hope someone can help me with my confusion. I've ordered u-joints from 2 different sources, based on the vehicle specifics, but when I got them, the first ones didn't fit the pinion yoke. Reordered and then they didn't fit the driveshaft yoke. This lead me to read through the CRG driveshaft report, several times along with this 14 page thread. I thought I had the original correct driveshaft, but know I don't think so. The car is a 68 10A L35/TH400 car. The 12 bolt rear has a pinion yoke that takes straps and cap screws, with 1.06 dia. bearing caps but the width is @3 1/2". Cant seem to find a u-joint with the correct dimensions. If I've read the resources right, the driveshaft should be 49.96" length, in-line yokes, with HD u-joints (at both ends?) If this is correct, I'll need a combination u-joint at the rear that has the wider, large diameter caps on one axis, and the smaller 1.06 caps with the same width on the other? The driveshaft I have is 49.96, has small standard u-joint on one end, and TH400 yoke with injection molded HD u-joint at the other. Any help is appreciated.
There are 3 sizes of u joint. 1310, 1330, 1350.
Are you sure your pinion yoke is original?
I believe the the driveshaft side uses a 1310 u joint that is about 3 1/4 inches wide.
The 1330 and 1350 are larger, like 3 5/8 inches wide.
There is a u joint available with 1310 on one side and 1330/1350 on the other. Sounds like that’s what you need.
Measure and check. Any local parts store SHOULD have one or can order one.
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Thank you sir, for your response. Not sure if yoke is original, but the 12 bolt had correct date code, and gm gears dated to match car. If both u joints on the Th400 driveshaft are supposed to be the same size/ part number, the pinion yoke seems incorrect. So, the 396/Th400 driveshaft should be 49.96" with in line yokes and uses 1350 joints at each end?
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You did not say what year car. Check the table in the report for correct length.
You will have to measure the u joint size on the driveshaft - like you did on the yoke - to make sure it will fit.
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1968, 10A Los car, i've measured the driveshaft i have. It is 49.96, but has outside clips on both joints, small 1.06 caps, with a Th400 yoke????? If this ones not correct, Ill look for a right one, but need to know which combo is correct. Thanks
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49.96 is the correct length.
Does your rear u joint area look like this?
http://www.camaros.org/images/ds/uj_stand.jpg
If so, this should be a standard 1310 u joint.
Post pics of what you have or email pics to me.
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Here is the yoke that's on the 12 bolt now. measures out to need a 1330 joint. 1 pic shows a 1310 held in place to show issue. After all the research, I re-inspected the driveshaft. It is apparently incorrect for this car. While its length is correct, the yokes are offset, uses 1310 ujoint, and has a Pontiac TH400 yoke with a 1310 joint....as soon as I can verify what is correct, I guess I'll be looking for a driveshaft....thanks again for all the help...
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I am not so sure that yours is wrong. I think it will work. You just need the proper u joints.
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I thought the 396/Th400 shaft for 68 had in line yokes?
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Yes, sorry, they should be inline.
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Any 1969 4 speed COPO or 4 speed L78 driveshafts out there that show strip color?
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Here are a few pics of the original driveshaft in my 69 Camaro
1969
X77 Z/28
M-20
Norwood
Late Build Nov 69 - 10E
Clocked @ 30deg
Orange White Stripes @ 11" from tip
49-5/8" Length w/ Straps
BU 1028G1 (Strikeout C Prefix)
(https://i.ibb.co/VMg41G3/IMG-8862.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/804KsX4/IMG-9098.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/RvqhTrM/IMG-9102.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/NSKRjWR/IMG-9104.jpg)
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Thank you! Every data point helps.
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09E COPO. M40
Not on my pc so I can’t modify the photo from being upside down.
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So what would you say the colors are from front to back?
I would say, but don’t want to influence what you see.
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Any 1969 4 speed COPO or 4 speed L78 driveshafts out there that show strip color?
If you don't get an answer before MCACN, there will be a L78 M22 survivor car there...Joe
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Cool, thanks Joe. I am hoping to maybe make it, but no guarantees.
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Since he's going through vintage certification, he'll be giving it a very gentle bath underneath just to get dust & dirt off. Never undercoated. I will see if I can get a picture before then...Joe
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Awesome, thank you!
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Driveshaft is from 1969 Camaro, VIN #124379N551248, 3 speed Saginaw manual transmission; FJ (Base 327) engine code.
Stripe colors appear to be white/light blue or silver/light blue. Center of stripes (space between 2 stripes) is approximately 11-5/8" from center of front u-joint. U-joints are offset.
Richard
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Driveshaft is from 1969 Camaro, VIN #124379N551248, 3 speed Saginaw manual transmission; FJ (Base 327) engine code.
Stripe colors appear to be white/light blue or silver/light blue. Center of stripes (space between 2 stripes) is 12" from center of front u-joint. U-joints are offset.
Richard
Interesting. Not sure we have seen that stripe combination before. Let me do some checking tomorrow. Thank you!
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I acquired the driveshaft as a spare back in March 1994 - the car was in a scrap yard being parted out. Unless someone saved the body for a future rebuild (which I doubt - it was pretty rough) the car itself is long gone.
Richard
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> 1969 L6, SBC, BBC Manual, PG 3945540 orange/white
Yup, orange and white.
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> 1969 L6, SBC, BBC Manual, PG 3945540 orange/white
Yup, orange and white.
Your eyes are better than mine - I’m holding the driveshaft in my hands and I don’t see orange/white.
Richard
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I think Kurt is right. Orange and white would be correct. Colors fade over time.
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Driveshaft report was updated today. We are pretty sure the COPO cars with 4 speed got a different driveshaft. Not sure if that was from Day 1 of L72 production for 69 Camaros or if it came in later. Research continues.
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Are you keeping track of u-joints as well? My apologizes if this has been discussed previously.
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Are you keeping track of u-joints as well? My apologizes if this has been discussed previously.
Sort of but not really. Generally the big block driveshafts have in line u joints, others do not.
It appears just the TH400 cars used the larger 1330 u joints.
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I actually meant the u-joints themselves. I knew you were tracking joint orientation.
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This is my driveshaft from my born with 396/325, 400 turbo.
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Thanks for the confirmation!
Looks like orange/green/purple (or a color somewhat like purple/violet).
http://www.camaros.org/driveshaft.shtml
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pink
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That’s purple. Get yours eyes checked old man! Lol
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LoL ???
Agreed-Violet!
1968 LOS L35/TH400
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LoL ???
Agreed-Violet!
1968 LOS L35/TH400
where did you get the crayon/paint marker for the stripes?
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LoL ???
Agreed-Violet!
1968 LOS L35/TH400
Or buy what you have left over.
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I used a Testors Enamel Model paint set and mixed and blended my own paint on a plastic cup to a degree this "old mans eyes" felt it matched the remnants were on the shaft.
This photo is 1995 when I had the shaft u-joints replaced as a part of regular owner servicing.
I just poof canned the tube and used a 3/4" brush applied based on the spacing mine had, including the green on the end of the Yoke.
Material source: Gloss Enamel 7-bottle Paint Kit 9115X
I didn't know about the Quanta striping sources back then either & Testors is affordable alternative to this:
https://www.gastanks.com/Inspection-Paint-PURPLE-2-oz/productinfo/Q-120/
Jim
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Duco paint is what was called for. It was probably applied at the time of balancing. See driveshaft report for more info.
These were applied with a brush and of course there was variation in width and spacing depending on the person doing the job.
Sometimes I am not good at describing colors. That one stripe is kind of a purple/pink mix.
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Magenta. ;D
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1969
Norwood
Oct. 5week
302
M20
Approx. 49.5"
Strap and bolt attachment
BU(12 bolt, 3.73 gears, posi.) 10(Oct.) 23(Day) G(Detroit Gear and Axle Plant) 1(shift) E(Eaton Axle) 5(?)
U-joint flanges (clocked)
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Thank you Scott.
You can see what we have compiled so far in the report at this link.
http://www.camaros.org/driveshaft.shtml
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Very good information! I want to check all my yokes and driveshaft now for the correct improved 69 versions. But one question and maybe a clarifying note on the article... How is the driveshaft length measured? Tip to tip, or centerline of U-joints? thx
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Note: All lengths are measured from centerline to centerline of the universal joints.
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Thanks!
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Year of car (1967)
Norwood or Los Angeles car (LOS)
Month and week of vehicle assembly (05C)
Engine (396/375 4K)
Transmission (Manual)
Driveshaft length (50-1/2” )
Driveshaft casting number (not observed yet)
Type of attachment to pinion yoke. (U bolts method)
Code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube. (QC 0510 G1)
Paint stripes and a picture (Orange-Green-White)
Position of the u-joint flanges on each end. (in-line)
Additional Green Dab towards Balance weight.
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Thank you Jim!
There won’t be a casting number. I will repost what we need for future posts.
Year of car
Norwood or Los Angeles car
Month and week of vehicle assembly or VIN
Engine
Transmission
Driveshaft length (measured center of u joint to center of u joint)
Type of attachment to pinion yoke. There are two types: U bolts / the straps and bolts method.
Ratio and assembly date code stamped on front of passenger side axle tube.
Paint stripes and a picture (if possible)
Position of the u-joint flanges on each end. Some cars were "in-line" and others were "clocked" about 30 degrees off from each other
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Thanks for the nudge from this thread and from Kurt.
Report updated for colors of 67/68 BBC manual trans in the table.
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Without jacking up mine, I snapped these photos. Fortunately the weight was accommodating. Does this help? 250 engine/ Powerglide 11E
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Looks like an orange stripe and a white stripe?
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The orange-if there is one is faint. One I get better lighting, I’ll get more.