CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: 68Zproject on February 23, 2011, 03:39:02 AM
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Does anyone know the guy who owns HBC? I've tried to talk with them and e-mailed him directly about the radiator tags they make. I don't know about other models, but the one for the 68 Z28 is wrong. He says he modeled it after one he took off an original car, but they have IM for one of the tanks and it's supposed to be IH. I've gotten no where with him and he's blown me off. It's obviously wrong and I told him to check on here but I'm sure he thought I was nuts. I'd like to get one from him, but what's the point of an incorrect one?
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I talked with a COPO owner last night who tried unsuccessfully to speak with Jim Stubbings multiple times over a MN coded COPO engine HBC had for sale, guy just couldn't believe Jim would not come to actually speak on the phone about a $12,000 engine, he ended up giving up on the purchase. Makes no sense to me...
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Well, if he's selling any of the tags as made (incorrect) some people are going to be pissed when they find out. If he's not selling many, an astute business person might want to know why. He personally e-mailed me back but blew me off and basically told me I didn't know what I was talking about. I said that might be true, but the folks at CRG know what they're talking about and no tank on a Camaro radiator was labeled IM.
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I've spoken to Jim quite a few times about the purchase of various parts. He has always been willing to talk. Any time I have called outside of their normal business hours, Jim has personally picked up the phone.
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Well, have him look at the radiator tags and tank usage codes on CRG and show him no Camaro had an IM tank on it like the one he has for 68 Z28.
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It seems strange that he would make a tag wrong on purpose. Anyhow, just because info is on the CRG doesn't mean that it's the only way something could have been. So, instead of trying to tell the guy that he is wrong, why not ask him if he can make the tag you are looking for? Offer to share in the cost if you really want it badly.
What really bothers me is the parts/services vendors who are active with the CRG who make up the 'rules' about what is correct or not. Some of them base their 'rules' upon their opinions & what they have seen, but they certainly haven't seen everything. People will blindly believe them, and if someone tries to call them out on a mistake, well, I won't even go there.
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In 1968 my cousin Jerry S. moved to Cinn. Oh. and got a job at the Norwood, Oh. camaro assembly plant. He work at that plant untill they closed the doors. His job was keeping parts to the guys doing assembly on the line. Jerry said in all his years at that plant he never heard the word "quality" used, it was always "production" get em out the door and be quick about. He said his boss always said keep those guys parts that will fit and work o.k..
I believe our camaros were not all built alike. On any given day if parts were short they stuck on them anything that would work to get them out the door. Jerry always drove a Pontiac he said the camaros were just a little to junkie to suit him.
Big Jim up at HBC has been around along time and knows the first gen cars pretty good. Of course he doesn't know it all and if you run into a guy that says he does, better keep a sharp eye out for that fellow. DRIVE EM, ENJOY THE HOBBY, HAVE FUN!!!
ICL
Richard A. Kuhn
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I've been round and round with it. I asked about making one and was asked "Why', the one that we sell is correct." It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. There was no camaro that had an IM tank. There could be no IM tag unless it was a typo. See other thread.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3727.0
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The UZ tag he makes is wrong also. It should have tanks CH & IO. He has IE & OO. Why make the wrong ones if you're going through the trouble of making them...Joe
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His 1969 350 automatic tag is also wrong - he shows the tag for a manual transmission and sells it as a tag for automatics.
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Maybe there was some misunderstanding on the point I was trying to make. You guys are taking what the CRG says as the only way something could have been. There are exceptions to almost every rule. I believe the accuracy of the CRG data, but the CRG makes no claims that their data reflects the only way a car was made. Maybe someone from the CGR should contact Jim and ask for his help with identifying all possible radiator tags.
Now, if you don't like what he sells, then don't buy it. If you approach the subject of having a tag made to match your car and he's not interested, then invest your own time & money into having the correct tag reproduced. I understand starting this thread to try to warn others that these tags may not match the way their specific car was made, but it seems to have turned into a bit of Jim-bashing. Guaranteed if a thread was started specifically to point out the faults of a vendor & CGR member it would have been shut down by now.
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Jeff,
That may be applicable to which radiator went into a car, but the 68-69 radiator tags define how the radiator is to be assembled. There's no wigggle-room on what the tag should say.
68 Z is IH. I have one.
Also, there's no vendor-preferential treatment. I think I've only had to shutdown one thread ever - the 69 RS Z rebody thread.
We don't have vendors that advertise on the site, so it's a non-issue, thankfully!
The UZ tag he makes is wrong also. It should have tanks CH & IO. He has IE & OO. Why make the wrong ones if you're going through the trouble of making them...Joe
UZ had IL & OM in 68. UZ had IO & CH in 69. Maybe that's a later version, but it's wrong for 68/9.
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OK Kurt, I'll just let it go.
After receiving many incorrect "correct" parts over the years as well as incorrectly restored components that will "pass with flying colors in any concours class", it seems that there is often a blurred line between what is correct and what someone thinks is correct.
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I agree with that!
Rad tags are one of the few that has a clear line. :)
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Kurt
Your statment about CH & IO are different from what the chart says on your site for curved neck, 4 row w/auto
Joe
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Chart is correct.
I switched 68 and 69 in my statement above. I corrected it. Thanks!
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Great. I was hoping I wasn't going to have to find another radiator now. Thanks, Joe
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I really wasn't trying to do any bashing anyway. All I was trying to do was get across the point that the tag was wrong, that I tried my best to help them out in the kindest manner possible and I was told to fly a kite. I understand the judging issue, that's an entirely different horse and I would agree with you 100% there. HBC is the source for these repop radiator tags that other vendors sell so there is no other place and I thought I would try to reason at the source. The reason I asked if anyone knew him was so that they might be able to convince him of the error. I guess I could start by having them made and selling them which is something I guess I'll look into.
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If you could make a US tag you could get rich. NO vendor has them listed that I can find.
BTW Jim @ HBC said no such tag was ever used nor exist.
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Yup, no US tag ever used.... ;)