CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: binky3 on December 06, 2010, 05:41:35 PM
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The Camaro Original GM Radiator Support vs. a 'reproduction' radiator support---I know there are 'square' holes in the GM support for flanged, square 5/16" nuts to fit in---and the reproduction has regular hex 5/16 nuts. The GM suppors seem to have more profound stamping lines/creases in ithem compared to the reproduction models. My questions are: 1. Are there any 'identifying' numbers stamped in the GM support?? 2. If so, where are the numbers located?? 3. If so, do the numbers refer to the week of that particular year??
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HELP--Anybody out there know about this?? ???
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No stamped numbers that I've ever seen. There are several differences. The 1969 supports have the extra AC holes on the front side of the upper rail. 67 and 68's don't. All of the GM generic replacements have little index dimples for the AC seal. Originals in 67 and 68 don't. Many of the new supports have more wrinkles in the upper rail than originals.
There is a high quality repro that Rick's sells. Stay away from the cheap repros. They are junk and look like junk.
Hope this helps. A whole article could be written on these. If I had the time, I would do it but not in the cards for me right now.
Jerry
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The 1969 supports have the extra AC holes on the front side of the upper rail. 67 and 68's don't.
Early 69's do not have the holes. Later cars (after January) do have the holes.
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Thank You KurtS and Jerry@CHP---Merv
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Binky,
For how long and how many cars have you certified?
VT
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69 supports also have smaller 3/16"? holes for the voltage reg tapping screws I expect, ..as 67 & 68s used well nuts and would be 3/8" diameter.
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Early '69's used the rubber mounts and ground wire. That reg mount changed approx 12-68.
Kurt, also wanted to mention that Larry Christensen and I have seen the front holes on earlier cars than Jan '69. Larry told me that all '69s had to have them for AC option. We had a discussion about this on another car that did not have the front holes when in fact it should have had them (later car). It's a non issue here and I have not spent the research time that Larry has on this issue, but all of this does come up in our judging practices in Legends at the Nationals. If they did not have the holes on early cars, how did the AC mount up?
Jerry
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No idea, but I've seen lots of original cars without it. My 01B Z doesn't have them, neither did some orig paint 01B cars.
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My 11D Norwood car (1969 RS/SS convertable) does not have rubber mounts for the voltage regulator. It has sheet metal screws bolting directly to radiator support.
boston14
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The volt reg mounting data is another good issue to track so that an approximate change over date can be noted and documented,
Jerry
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The drawing (UPC 6-B7) is dated 29Apr68 with no revisions relating to the mounting of the voltage reg. ???
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Does anyone who visits here have an early build '69 Camaro with factory AC? Dec '68 or earlier. Could it be that during the beginning of the 1969 model year, Camaro used two different core supports, one for C60 and one without holes for non C60 cars? Eventually, one generic with holes for the rest of the year? That's a good theory.
Any thoughts?
Jerry
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Jerry, the September, 1968 P&A shows the 1969 support as being P/N 3937500 (Group 1.270). The 69 AIM shows it as being P/N 3938695, but no mention of any previous number. The 1975 P&A shows "1967-1969 Camaro" as P/N 3962940, but that's probably after a few service revisions since it covers all three years.
Does anyone have a 1969 P&A they can look at?
Ed
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Does anyone who visits here have an early build '69 Camaro with factory AC? DEC '68 or earlier. Could it be that during the beginning of the 1969 model year, Camaro used two different core supports, one for C60 and one without holes for non C60 cars? Eventually, one generic with holes for the rest of the year? That's a good theory.
Any thoughts?
Jerry
Jerry...here are some pics of my '69 A/C car with a 12A (Dec. '68) build. As you can see it is set up as per AIM C60 B1 & B4 minus the shield for the BB's. Short of disassembling the frame/support rail, I can't locate any numbers. If you have an idea where I should look...let me know. Let me know if more pics are needed.
Kurt is correct...no holes in the support. A/C lines are routed underneath the support/rail...from the condenser. (Next page...)
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A couple shots from the front...To establish no holes...Look at the original Condenser lines in the pics below. They were never meant to be routed from the top...
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Can you post some photos from the front at the core support upper rail.
Larry just checked on a survivor car that one of his customers has. It's a 12C car and has the holes. Lets keep this research going.
Jerry
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Don't think we're talking about the same holes. I was referring to the ones on the front edge where your bolts fasten the core assm.
They are there. I think you were speaking about the ones on top?
Jerry
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That's correct Jerry...I thought the debate was concerning the holes on top (upper rail). At any rate, I'll post some pics in the morning.
Thanks,
Marty
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Upper Rail...The only holes (aside from the hood catch ASM) are for the Condenser's upper mounting screws.
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Does anyone who visits here have an early build '69 Camaro with factory AC? Dec '68 or earlier. Could it be that during the beginning of the 1969 model year, Camaro used two different core supports, one for C60 and one without holes for non C60 cars? Eventually, one generic with holes for the rest of the year? That's a good theory.
Any thoughts?
Jerry
My very early the 8223rd car built(9B of 68 ) L34 survivor has the holes in the outer upper rail to accomodate the AC brackets. My other survivor cars are built after 1/69 and also have the holes in the upper outer rail. I will review the other car Vintage Certified cars in my picture files and post the data.
Steve
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The volt reg mounting data is another good issue to track so that an approximate change over date can be noted and documented,
Jerry
My 9B of 68 L34 Vvoltage regulator is mounted directly to the rad support (no rubber insulators). My other survivor cars built after 1/69 all mount the same way. This is something the Vintage team will document in future certifications.
Steve
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Hate to throw another wrench into this discussion, but here goes...Does it make a difference where the cars were built and was there more than one Radiator Support supplier? In addition, AIM makes no distinction between BB & SB in any of C60 except for the shield. If you look at AIM C60 B1 the holes are none existant. Now... we have another early built, 9B L34 (BB) which clearly shows the holes and a L48 (SB) that does not. ???
No Rubber Insulators for Voltage Regulator.
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Hate to throw another wrench into this discussion, but here goes...Does it make a difference where the cars were built and was there more than one Radiator Support supplier?
Nope. All radiator supports came from Chevrolet Metal Fabricating - Bristol Road, in Flint; they shipped to both Norwood and Van Nuys.
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The volt reg mounting data is another good issue to track so that an approximate change over date can be noted and documented,
Jerry
2nd week October 68 build (10B 9L502042) LM1 w/C60 and voltage reg screwed directly to support.
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac236/69ZL1/The%20Builds/copy1small.png
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac236/69ZL1/The%20Builds/IMG_1896.jpg
http://www.usmuscle.com.au/Forum/showthread.php?t=5264&page=2