CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: IZRSSS on October 06, 2010, 06:18:48 PM
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I purchased a Space Saver Spare and Canister several years ago. The pics are attached. The person I bought them from said he had two sets. One that he kept from a '69 camaro he had sold and another one that is still with his other '69 camaro. I'm sure you've heard this before...he said it's an original set and they both match. Can anyone verify if this? The only ID I can find is the letter HE or HF & #1 next to the valve stem. There might be others but my eye sight isn't what it use to be.
Thanks
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...and the Canister.
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I was going to ask you about the codes on your SSS, I will look tomorrow and get the codes to compare. I have no idea if mine is correct to the car but from memory it is identicle to yours. If I remember correctly my inflator canister only has only one tire size listed where yours list a few different sizes.
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I spent month's researching the tire before I opted to purchase this one. As it turns out there is a lot written about the N65 but very few visual aids to go on. Hopefully this thread will spark some interest by those who know.
The guy I bought it from sent me several photos of both his cars w/SSS. He also stated that he worked for GM back then and these were infact the correct tire's (but you know what they say...). All I can say is that he certainly convinced me. Again, we communicated for several weeks before I paid the outragous price and I do recall finding this same exact tire on so called original cars. Who knows...it could have been Tommy ;D.
I did a quick search and here is a pic of a, "Unrestored L89 Drag Strip Test-Super Chevy Magazine"... Notice the paint color, the markings on the rubber and the thread. Even though my pics do not show the thread, I think the two are identical. Also notice what he's doing to the canister :o
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OK... I looked at mine and it looks identicle exept for the codes.
Mine is stamped with a small MI7 and a large 10 on the left of the stem and to the right of the stem is a large 24 and a large HI. The tire is a BF Goodrich 7.35-14 tire with a 4 ply rating 2 ply space saver spare.
The inflator canister sleve says Gr. 5.800 Tire inflator 1 #9793469 and the only tire size listed is 7.35X14.
I will get pictures when I get the chance.. possibly tonight?
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Thanks, looking forward to the pics.
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Work was slow so I got some pics with my cell phone. I tried to highlight the codes in the wheel with yellow but still a little hard to make out..
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c368/jbuchert/spacesaverspare69camaro2.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c368/jbuchert/spacesaverspare69camaro.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c368/jbuchert/spacesaverspaer69camarocodes.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c368/jbuchert/spacesaversparetire69camaro.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c368/jbuchert/inflatorcanister69camaro1.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c368/jbuchert/inflatorcanister69camaro.jpg)
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c368/jbuchert/inflatorcanisterretainer.jpg)
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The bracket was with the car but I think its for the later/smaller canister?
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Just a thought, might the one tire size be printed on the original canister, while a replacement canister indicate multiple sizes? Wouldn't expect he parts dept. to carry a different can for every size tire.
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Thanks J.
All three tires/rubber from what I can see appear close for the exception of the serial# mine is 14453T296 & the #643G-2 which follows "MADE IN U.S.A." All other markings are identical. It's obvious though that we have two different rims at least code wise. However, it does appear that all three are consistant with paint. The show side is off-white or very light beige (at least I think yours is this shade) and the inside is gray. I took another look at the ID and its definitely HE on one side of the stem and 1 on the other. No other numbers or letters.
Tom has interesting advise with regards to the canister please let us know what you find.
Hopefully we'll have more people weighing in who are familiar with this tire.
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I had this saved on my computer from an ebay listing for a supposed 69 Camaro space saver. Also gray in collor and other than the code identicle in appearance to both the one I posted and IZRSSS posted.
Here is the item description..
A vintage GM Space Saver spare tire! This was never mounted on the car and is in as new condition as can be expected for a spare tire! It is a GM spare and has the (MI) code by the valve stem. This was bought from a reliable Camaro NOS dealer who said the codes indicate it is for 1969 GM car. The center reads GM - 5 - NT by the center hub. It is 4 ply rayon. Inventory # 89524800. Shelf position = 121509-5.
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If this is the case, your spare is much more accurate than mine. However, now we have two different individuals telling each of us that these are the correct spares. Again, I hope this doesn't turn out to be a two way conversation. Obviously more data is needed before a consensus can be determined.
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If this is the case, your spare is much more accurate than mine. However, now we have two different individuals telling each of us that these are the correct spares. Again, I hope this doesn't turn out to be a two way conversation. Obviously more data is needed before a consensus can be determined.
Two way conversaton?
How do you think my spare is more acurate?
Could the numbers on the tires that are different between mine and yours be the numbers he reffers to as envintory and shelf position numbers? If this is the case then that would make the tires identicle with only the codes on the wheel being different? Assuming they are all original first gen spares we need to figure out what the system was on the coding.
Also.. Was there more than one supplier on the space saver wheels and could this account for the different collors?
Im just posting all the information I can find on them so maybe we can learn a little more about them. Still have hope that someone will someday see this thread that has knowledge on the SSS and chime in with what they know.
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Two way conversation...meaning no one else on this site seems to know anything about this spare. We are getting plenty of hits but either no one knows or no one wants to help. You posted this previously and I don't think you had any results back then...or am I wrong?
All of your information is right on track. We just need more feedback.
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J, I sent a request to Coker tire along with pics. I'll let you know if I receive a response...
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Two way conversation...meaning no one else on this site seems to know anything about this spare. We are getting plenty of hits but either no one knows or no one wants to help. You posted this previously and I don't think you had any results back then...or am I wrong?
All of your information is right on track. We just need more feedback.
Ahh.. Yea, your right.
No, I dont remember getting any responses then either. There has to be someone who can shed light on this subject??
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I believe that approximately 2,000 cars got this option and most people after seeing or using it put a real spare tire in it's place.
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Your right, 2228 were sold for $19.00 each. Your also right that people threw them away. A friend had one in his 3rd gen camaro he purchased new and he threw his SSS away because he thought it was too much of a hassle.
J, have you tried airing yours up. I did mine and these things are huge!
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You need to ask the Pontiac guys too.
It was standard on a Firebird and a full-size spare was optional.
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Your going to make us work for this one aren't you? All in fun Kurt... :)
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Found a Pontiac forum. Will keep you posted...
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I have tried getting information from a couple of Pontiac forums, nothing yet. I have also been in contact with Coker Tire. The head of Development is currently reviewing the information I have sent to him. Hopefully we will have something soon.
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J...you would think someone would know something about this to shed light ??? Still working w/Coker...
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No one cares.
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Back in the day even the junk yards could not get rid of them. Nobody wanted them. First thing we did if your car came with one was junk it, and get a real spare.
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No one cares.
Back in the day even the junk yards could not get rid of them. Nobody wanted them. First thing we did if your car came with one was junk it, and get a real spare.
The best thing to do is find you a rim and tire for a spare.
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Talk about ganging up on a member...
First of all I do understand why no one wanted this tire and if I had a '69 I had purchased new I probably would have replaced it simply because they were more trouble then they were worth. However, this isn't the issue. That was then, this is now and for those of us who do have one we do care! Perhaps if your cars (WYKOFF, Tom & William) had come with the SSS option you would be more receptive and wouldn't be so defensive. In addition, if you have any derogatory comments to make in the future please utilize this sites personal messaging.
I had assumed this was a site to gain relevant information with respect to 1st gens regardless of subject matter. Perhaps I was wrong...IMO.
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Not trying to upset anyone, just stating what I can remember from the day. I have no idea if my car came with one or not. I'm a bit thin on documentation, but glad to have a first gen. With any luck it will one day emerge from the parts bins, and get back on the road where it belongs.
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J...you would think someone would know something about this to shed light ???
Defensive? Derogatory? Where does that come from? I responded to your lament.
The reason there is no info on the space saver spare is as stated-no one cares.
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You were not receptive about the Ford "CAUTION FAN" sticker on the car. IMO
You got defensive when told. IMO
The only derogatory remarks I have found are yours. IMO
I only PM John, Kurt, Jerry, and other members on this site when I need help or have questions that need answers.
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Again William, there are people who care if they didn't this thread wouldn't be red flagged! I care and so do the other '69 owners that were lucky enough to have in their car this rare option!
AS FOR YOU WYKOFF...THE ONLY TIME YOU WEIGH IN ON ANY OF MY THREADS IS TO SLING MUD...CAPTIAN! As they say...it is what it is...get over it!
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Now that someone does care, why don't you lead the charge? Gain all the info there is on the option and you can be the source.
As for WYKOFF, I'm quite comfortable with my 35 years of contribution to the hobby. I regularly receive pms and always help out where I can. You don't like my style, boo-hoo.
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I have done exactly that, "lead the charge". Just waiting to here back from perhaps the only source that can help. As for your style, I think its commendable... except when you take shots, "NO ONE CARES"...
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IZRSSS,
I feel your frustration, but with 409 views on your thread I do not think that people do not care. I think that because you have a rare N65 option and with only approx. 3,000 built there will only be a handful of survivors. I have a 67 that never had your N65 option and I am interested in your problem. So, there are people who care but do not have the answers. Keep up the charge, find the answers and let us know , we will still be interested.
Bob
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I misunderstood and owe the captain an apology.
Sorry John.
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Thanks Bob! I needed that one... ;D
There is one source I am currently working with and I trust if anyone can help it will be them. Darrin with Coker Tire has all the information he needs to research the tire and he has collaborated with me several times. He in turn has forwarded this information to the Head of Development and I trust an answer will be had shortly.
The information they have is relevent to my tire and it is only a bases for discovery. If you have been keeping up, J has also supplied important information concerning his tire and if it becomes necessary I plan to forward J's information as well. However, my hopes is that Coker's information is complete and this won't be necessary.
The other hurdle will be...will they let me post this information. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Thanks again!
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William, like I stated it was a misunderstanding and I hope you see my point now. :)
Thanks again and be safe. :)
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Never mind...WYKOFF retracted...thanks WYKOFF ;)
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Now that someone does care, why don't you lead the charge? Gain all the info there is on the option and you can be the source.
As for WYKOFF, I'm quite comfortable with my 35 years of contribution to the hobby. I regularly receive pms and always help out where I can. You don't like my style, boo-hoo.
I think I owe you an apology William. I thought the "boo-hoo" was for me... :-[!
If it wasn't my sincere apologies!!!
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Wow, did this spiral out of control for a while! Nice that it came back to center.
Marty, realize that on this site the tone is generally such that personal attacks don't happen. So, don't take posts personally.
Bill can be brief, but he's knowledgeable. Part of his point is that it's real hard to verify the originality of accessories like spares and jacks.
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Point well taken! Another case of testosterone run ramped.
Perhaps we can all benefit from an Australian Hybrid :o.
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I remember everyone pulling the spare tires out of the trunk and it had nothing to do with it being a space saver or full size. Although it was well placed dead weight most people still considered unecessary weight and it also took up close to half the trunk space. People are lazy also... if the spare was ever used half the time it never made it back into the trunk.
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This is what I've found on the Pontiac site...Kurt was right it was standard. At least we're getting somewhere.
http://www.pontiacforum.com/pontiac/showthread.php?p=46157&posted=1#post46157
Still waiting on Coker.
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Still waiting on Coker.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Coker - they don't make a reproduction Space-Saver; nobody but the original supplier has ever made them.
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John...I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch of the imagination but even I am not that naive. A company as highly regarded as this should have one of the most extensive data bases on more tires than we care to imagine. This is the only reason I chose to start with them.
You could be right on the "holding my breath" part though, and I appreciate your answer. I did not know this about the original supplier.
Lucas is another noted tire manufacturer so I think I'll shoot them an email as well. If I get enough of these out there maybe something will finally surface.
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This morning I received this email from Darrin. Coker has been extremely helpful and as you can see there is still hope...
Marty,
Unfortunately we’ve been unable to determine the specific origin of this tire. We had a hunch that “V-1” designation was referring to a company in Ohio, Vee Rubber. That turned out not to be the case as we discovered many tires from that era were stamped with the V-1 designation. We’re at a standstill, but I’m going to pass the information by a few more tire veterans to see what I can come up with.
Darrin Evans
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This morning I also received this email from Ken Lucas and I am following up on his lead...
Marty,
No, I don't have any information on the "Space Saver".
I know someone who had a tire and may be able to help. I'm not sure if he still has it or not.
His name is Steve Carter.
Good Luck,
Ken Lucas
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Steve was kind enough to email me back. He does have information on this elusive tire. He has it stored away, like most of us, in piles and in Cd's. He will look this weekend.
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J...You have the correct inflator (AIM N65, A1) #9793469...Hard to believe you even have the sleeve, #3973954...nice!
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J...You have the correct inflator (AIM N65, A1) #9793469...Hard to believe you even have the sleeve, #3973954...nice!
Good news.. Thanks for the help!
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From a Pontiac Parts Catalog:
1967 rim code= HE (7.35)
1968 rim code= HI (7.35)
1969 rim code= HI (7.35), XJ (7.75)
I believe KC is the wheel code for 68/69 Pontiac A-body.
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Not sure how you pulled that one out of a hat?
Who would have thought...a parts cat? U DA MAN...!
NICE JOB KURTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
PS; Anyone want to trade a HI for a HE ;D?
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Question is if the Pontiac codes are the same as Camaro.....
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My rim is a K18 722 IC rim, The 18 is about half the height as the K and the 7. Rim decodes as being built in the Romulus Mich. Kelsey wheel plant on July 22 nd 1968. It has a D70-14 space saver tire on it. It's not correct for my car, but takes up way less space then a fullsize 235/60-R14 spare would. I'll have to look up the IC application code, when I bought it a hundred years ago (OK 1991) I was told it was from a 68 Camaro, but we all know what that info is worth at a swap meet. Don't know what kind of a car would get a D70-14 spare as its not a Camaro standard tire size.
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From a Pontiac Parts Catalog:
1967 rim code= HE (7.35)
1968 rim code= HI (7.35)
1969 rim code= HI (7.35), XJ (7.75)
I believe KC is the wheel code for 68/69 Pontiac A-body.
I sent this information to Steve C. He remembers having both the 7.35 & 7.75. He also mentioned he had several SSS sets but decided to sell all of them once he found out he couldn't use them in his Z's (Jerry M. informed him). So...all he has left are Cd's and boxes of docs. I believe he's made it through his paper's and is now searching through his Cd's.
I haven't checked to see if my HE 7.35 will fit the '69. Does anyone know off hand if it works (too lazy to pull the tire off & ck)? Also...What are the physical difference between HE & HI rims? My tire is pretty dad-gum close and I'd hate to part with it if it works.
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I'd guess the later wheels had more clearance for disc brakes.
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It looks like I have the correct spare and inflator canister.. This is great news!
Im in the middle of a divorce so I havnt been keeping up on things. Thanks Kurt, IZRSSS and everyone else that contributed to this thread.
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Hang in there...good to have you back.
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Question is if the Pontiac codes are the same as Camaro.....
J,
Unfortunately there is still one unanswered question that KurtS eluded to. This is obviously another important piece of the puzzle.
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My space saver has 2 valves? I will take pictures and send w/ inflator if desired
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Post them if you don't mind.
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My space saver has 2 valves? I will take pictures and send w/ inflator if desired
Yes - I would be interested to see pics of your SSS.