CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: camaro_ragtop on October 23, 2005, 03:37:52 AM
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Hey guys,
Has anyone looked at the cost difference between repairing a basket case shell vs shelling out 12k for a new shell from Dynacorn international?
by basket case I mean I need a complete floor, rear frame rails, trunk pan, braces.... the list goes on....
on a positive note I bought a Buick Grand National to play with till the camaro is done.....
TIA
Bill
AKA Camaro_ragtop
Ontario Canada
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ya I got the same problem with my 68 but they dont make new shells for it yet!!!
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I've considered it, especially with the labor expense of replacing panels. Also mine is a hardtop. They tell me a hardtop shell is coming, but 12 g's for a ragtop shell is a lot. Also I have been informed there are legal issues with welding in my old firewall to use the vin and such. (basically I've been told by law enforcement here in NJ that if I do that, its illegal, and they can confiscate the car)
Check your state regulations first. Since mine is a basic plain jane, not some ultra rare 6 figure model, I just bought a mig welder, and will be off to the wrecking yard or body shop for a trashed body panel to learn on. Then if all goes well, I will do my best at replacing the panels with aftermarket.
Tom
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Bill, I cant remember which Magazine. Either Hemmings Muscle cars or Hot Rod Magazine will be doing a spread on the Dynacorn Shell. I think they are going to build one and do a story on it.
John
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Thanks for the replies, I am still very much on the fence on this.... I'm not even sure if it's about the money as much as what the finished product will look like, I have no problem with the welding but lining up the panels is no easy task....
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Also I have been informed there are legal issues with welding in my old firewall to use the vin and such. (basically I've been told by law enforcement here in NJ that if I do that, its illegal, and they can confiscate the car)
Tom
Actually that is not true. It is perfectly legal to repair the damaged part with an aftermarket piece and if that part happens to be a firewall section or dash panel you can repair the area and replace your VIN, trim tag or whatever. The replacement body's are considered repair parts.
The manufacturer of the body's has worked out the legal issues according to federal guidlines.
Rick H.
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Hot Rod has an article on it. It has different VIN stamped on the body If anyone ever checks they will see you have an aftermarket body. If you have or are a good welder I would fix any body over buying the aftermarket shell. G. M. is wrong in allowing them to be called Camaros they should be called kit cars just like the AC Cobras. The Camaros that have and will die should be allowed to die. The aftermarket kit body should not be allowed to be called a Camaro. G.M. did not build it.
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I could see buying a new body if you don't care about originality, and are going to stuff in some funky drive train. But, I think if you are doing a restoration that you should live with the original. I think finding a better junk body to start with and then make 2 caes out of one is a better idea. I also agree that this should be labeled a kit car. You know someone somewhere is going to get screwed thinking he has an original.
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I LOOKED AT THE ARTICLE IN HOTROD ON BUILDING THE FAKE cAMARO. wHAT A PILE OF GARBAGE, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE RESTORE AN ORIGINAL BODY. They buy the subassemblies from the asian markets. Then they make them out of thinner guage metal. ( They come up with BS about the metal being less brittle, so to save twenty dollars in scrap tin they give you this thinner garbage) I have a NOS fender that was made in the 90s and it is same guage as original. Now I suppose GM had tin from the sixties around. I dont think so. If modern tin is so much better why did GM stamp new fenders out of full guage metal. Remember all asian tin is made from the ground up cars and appliances we send overseas. And what a hokey bondo bucket the hotrod staff put together I would have been ashamed to have put that in my magazine. If anyone offered one of theses garbage heaps up for sale I would run from it Just like owners of theses thin guage cars are going to run from a little surface rust pitting. Original Gm metal will take quite a bit of pitting before losing structural integrity. Just because these guys talk like they know what they are talking about dont make it so. I wonder how much Dynacorn payed HotRod to plug their asian pile of garbage
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<< Now I suppose GM had tin from the sixties around. I dont think so. If modern tin is so much better why did GM stamp new fenders out of full guage metal. Remember all asian tin is made from the ground up cars and appliances we send overseas. >>
It's not a matter of "having tin from the sixties around" - the print calls for a given sheet thickness, and that's what the draw, trim, flange, and pierce dies are designed to work with. Steel sheet is available in any thickness you specify, and there's nothing "special" about the sheet gauge used in the 60's; many different gauges of steel sheet are used in different parts of the car. Domestic steel isn't "virgin" either - normally it's about 40%-50% recycled material, and has been for decades; the alloying materials are what gives it specific properties. :)
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Read my statement a little closer I said nothing about tin from the sixties being special. The point I was making is GM stamped replacement fenders out of a thicker guage than the garbage dynacorn is stamping them out of. So to save a tiny bit of money they are pushing thin guage garbage on to people. And no one can convince me that asian ( not japanese. Jap crap is bad enough on its own) garbage has any redeeming qualitys other than being cheap. It would be nice to see Dynacorn ( I should say Dynacrap ) go belly up, and GM along with them. I will not ever buy a new GM after they put their name on this asian garbage. Since GM is copying Toyotas totally ugly front lights it would be nice to see Toyota put GM under.
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Remember everyone, the USA used to outproduce the whole World in manufactured goods. There is a reason, when You buy a Knife and its say USA on it You will pay a whole lot more than if it says China on it. But ole slick Willy decided for bribe money to Gut America. I try to buy American goods but nowadays that is real hard to do. I bought a purolater fuel filter a while back and it said made in Russia, that is insane. And it was warped at one end, I will never again buy any purolater product
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so do tell us waynechipman, when you restore your car, what do you have outback a GM nos depot in your backyard??? what , you never used after market? come on
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buy one of these for 1,700...
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2258000-2258999/2258194_7_full.jpg)
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No I dont Zigman I just sold a NOS fender for 1000 though and I can see why they sell for so much. I am waiting for better fenders to come along am hearing through grapevine that they might be appearing, or maybe its just a dream who knows have to wait and see
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I guess what it really comes down to is if you have the cash to shell out for the new body thats your choice. I guess if you have a plain jane camaro it might be worth it to you to replace everything. But whether its made in the USA or china(not really sure) alot of the parts i have found that GM restorations dont make........like the entire trunk pan i just replaced in my 69'. I bought it from NPD,but i dont know if you can buy this part from GM. I have a budget though,plus my car is a 396SS car so i think in my opinion its worth repairing not replacing. I just replaced the trunk pan,inner and outer fenders and new full factory quarters. And i'm still finding sheet metal that needs to be replaced. So i guess it depends on time vs. cash but its all a labor of love for the cars. I'm not going to lie and say that it wont be alot of work because it will be. But anyway thats my 2 cents.
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I bought one of the Dynacorn bodies or more accuratley was financially and physically involved in the process and it depends on the state you live in as far as VIN go. Most state will insist on a state issue vin. Some states will allow to remove and replace back to the existing car for restoration purposes. Most body shops have the ability to get away with more at least in Florida. If you rebody the car with your VIN it will be obvious and one day it will be impounded. There are a lot of ways to get around things but a simple installation of your VIN on a Dynacorn body isn't one of them. The car I finished had a state issued VIN and severly hurt its resale value and the ability to sell it. I don't have a problem with rebodies because it should be obvious the difference from a 40 year old US MADE body to a 2006 import body so your not fooling anyone and why should the amount of sheet metal you replace have anything to do with your ability to drive the car legally. There is a show I watch called CCR (chop cut rebuild) I think its on the speed channel and they are currently building a dynacorn body starting at Dynacorn. There have been two episodes so far. As far as I am concerned is is no different then building a 33 3 window or other street rod. Just my 2 cents
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What are we looking at here?
do you have better pictures?
Thanks
buy one of these for 1,700...
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2258000-2258999/2258194_7_full.jpg)
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I can tell you this, guys--if you do decide replace the sheetmetal on your car, spend the extra money for the best you can find. No sheetmetal on the market is as good as the original GM, and the cheaper stuff is even worse than the "best" aftermarket. I had to replace the header panel, fenders, doors, tailpan and deck lid on my '68--all of it Goodmark, touted as the best--and NONE of it fit right. I spent $1000 on aftermarket sheetmetal and had to pay a professional bodyman $1000 to fix the damn mess and put it in primer. It's why Waynechipman got $1000 for a NOS fender! The GM stuff isn't available anymore and I had no choice, although I did score a GM cowl panel. If I had it to do over again I'd have patch-paneled my GM stuff and actually saved money. Despite what their advertisement says, Goodmark is made overseas, too, not in the USA. If you have a restoration business locally I'd make friends with them and they can recommend the best stuff currently available. If not, I've found that Year One is a super bunch of guys to do business with, although they're more expensive on the average. Modern Chevrolet in Winston-Salem, NC is also a great source. And you guys have to also remember that the magazines have an agenda when they run an article promoting things--they get kickbacks like any other business and will tell you the great things and leave out the warts, or are ignorant of them. MY 2 cents. Ain't this Camaro restoration thing fun?