CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: hgger69 on August 01, 2008, 08:06:39 PM
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Hi there!
I´m a new member on this forum and I have a quest regarding subject above!
My car is a Hugger orange 1969 X44 model with Houndstooth Deluxe interior. My guess is that the grille is not correct painted.
As I understand it should be Argent silver as the head lamp bezels?! Is that correctly understood?
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/Lycksele/9eb04d7f.jpg)
Regards Hakan from Sweden.
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Yes, it should be silver.
http://www.camaros.org/exterior.shtml#1969Grille
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Yes, it should be silver.
http://www.camaros.org/exterior.shtml#1969Grille
Thanx for quick anser Kurt! I belive i spoken with you before regarding this matter??
I´ve seen som strange grill color here in Sweden on a Z/28. It looked like only the "top" of the outer mesh were silver and the the rest of the grille were black?!
Correct me if I´m wrong but shouldn´t the complete grille be painted in Argent silver like the headlight bezels?? And what happens with my ceome trim round the grille?
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I´ve seen som strange grill color here in Sweden on a Z/28. It looked like only the "top" of the outer mesh were silver and the the rest of the grille were black?!
Correct me if I´m wrong but shouldn´t the complete grille be painted in Argent silver like the headlight bezels?? And what happens with my ceome trim round the grille?
The "egg-crate" portion of the grille should be painted argent silver, matching the headlight bezels; the bright trim around the edge of the "egg-crate" area remains bright. The ring around the headlamp lens on the front of the bezel should also be argent silver, not black as shown in the photo.
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The "egg-crate" portion of the grille should be painted argent silver, matching the headlight bezels; the bright trim around the edge of the "egg-crate" area remains bright. The ring around the headlamp lens on the front of the bezel should also be argent silver, not black as shown in the photo.
OK, now I´m lost here! :o
What do you mean with "egg-crate" ?? Can you show a pic of what you mean, please! Is it the mesh pattern you mean?
And it should be painted silver all the way from beginning to end not just the front area?!
...the area a´round the lights I´ve never thought about before, thank you for that information! :)
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Yes. Egg Crate meaning mesh pattern. Yes. Silver all the way to fender, not just the center. As John stated the bright trim remains bright. My neighbor has an L78 (Code72). If he's around I can get a pic if the car has not been shipped yet. Scott
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Yes. Egg Crate meaning mesh pattern. Yes. Silver all the way to fender, not just the center. As John stated the bright trim remains bright. My neighbor has an L78 (Code72). If he's around I can get a pic if the car has not been shipped yet. Scott
That would be helpful, thanx! :)
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Yes. Egg Crate meaning mesh pattern. Yes. Silver all the way to fender, not just the center.
Nope, only the egg-crate/mesh portion is silver - the surround outboard of the bright molding is body color, as shown in his photo in the first post.
The entire depth of the egg-crate/mesh area is argent silver, not just the front edge.
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I was talking about the portion between that and the headlamp bezel. Ithought that would be self-explanitory. Neighbor will be home tonight to get pics of L78 code 72. Where's that new lazer pointer I just bought........Scott
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The entire depth of the egg-crate/mesh area is argent silver, not just the front edge.
There´s my answer!! Now I know how to paint correctly, thank you all for your quick responding!! :D
...and a nice pic of a correctly painted grille, like mine should be, would just sum this topic up! :)
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Now I finally know what you meant when you stated just the front portion. I will always prefer human relations on a closer biological basis. I just need to get photo tonight of my friends old L-78 tonight( low mi. origional rust free tin, 4 sp. deluxe, build sheet, bought 16 years ago 85% done for a low price that makes me sick. On its way to northwest now. Saw the road for 25 miles in all that time.
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I Stand corrected. I don't know 69's that well. The L-78 I mentioned has a black grille and it's supposed to so the photo I have does you no good. I got an education from the present owner. COPO's got a silver grille too? Didn't know that California cars had no X codes either. Can't believe no one jumped all over my L-78 mistake.
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OK, thanx anyway for trying! ;)
I´ll keep hunting for som COPO pics then!
Edit: Found one!
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/Diverse/party_copos.jpg)
It shows exactly what we all have been talking about!! Argent silver all the way regarding the mesh and argent silver surrounding the headlight as well! 8)
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Here is a photo I took this year at Carlisle.
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Here is a photo I took this year at Carlisle.
Nice pic! Spank you! :P
...but shouldn´t the ring around the headlamp lense alsot be painted in argent silver ?? See my pic of the COPO above!
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There were 4 headlamp bezels:
all silver no chrome trim [non-style trim cars]
all silver w/chrome trim [style trim cars]
all black no chrome trim [non-style trim SS cars]
all black w/chrome trim [style trim SS cars]
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Here's another COPO silver grille. Neighbor had center only. Silver was on base models too, Right?(Black,COPO and RS being the exception?)
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There was nothing special about a COPO car's non-RS grille - they used the same base grille (argent silver) as a six-cylinder grocery-getter.
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Thank you. That is now my understanding. That there is nothing different from a base model grille or a COPO Grille. I know COPO's just a drivetrain preference. I just posted the pic for additional reference for the guy re-painting his grill. That grill could have been for a base model as well. Fortunately,I have a neighbor who deals in COPO's and has a greater understanding of these matters like the members on the CRG board.
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There was nothing special about a COPO car's non-RS grille - they used the same base grille (argent silver) as a six-cylinder grocery-getter.
A base model is a base model independent of engine, huh?! Kurt showed the table explaining this earlier in this topic!
Grille Color
Model non-RS | RS
------------ ----------------
SS black* | black*
Z28 silver | black*
All else** silver | black*
--------------------------------
* except Tuxedo Black exterior, which
all received silver grilles
** incl COPO
I´m going to repaint my grille in argent silver partly due to the fact that it were the right way for my "plane Jane" from Norwwod and partly because I think it look better also! 8)
Once again I bow for the impressive facts that one can find in this eminent forum, thank you all I´m a happy man now! :D
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There were 4 headlamp bezels:
all silver no chrome trim [non-style trim cars]
all silver w/chrome trim [style trim cars]
all black no chrome trim [non-style trim SS cars]
all black w/chrome trim [style trim SS cars]
Where did you find this table?? ???
i almost never seen a 69 Camaro with all black headlamp bezel!! :o
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Does anybody have a pic of all black bezels?? I´ve never seen any!! ???
As i understand so a SS-car should have black grill mesh and black head lamp bezels, correct?! :-\
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As i understand so a SS-car should have black grill mesh and black head lamp bezels, correct?! :-\
That's correct (unless it's a black car - then it gets silver). If it has Z21 Style Trim, the bezels have a bright ring; if not, no bright ring.
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As i understand so a SS-car should have black grill mesh and black head lamp bezels, correct?! :-\
That's correct (unless it's a black car - then it gets silver). If it has Z21 Style Trim, the bezels have a bright ring; if not, no bright ring.
Thanx John, just as I thought!
...but does anybody has any pics of this combo, I´ve never seen any!! Even in the pics of an "original" 69 in the beginning of this site you sometimes see a black SS-grille with argent bezelz.... ;)
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The "egg-crate" portion of the grille should be painted argent silver, matching the headlight bezels; the bright trim around the edge of the "egg-crate" area remains bright. The ring around the headlamp lens on the front of the bezel should also be argent silver, not black as shown in the photo.
Wow, this one got me a little lost here too! OK, for a non SS hugger orange car, the egg-crate and headlight bezels are argent, check! knew that. But the John's statement about the little black ring between the chrome and the headlight has me stumped. On a non SS/RS HO car the painted part of the chrome style trim ring is supposed to be argent and match the grill??? Makes sense to me, but I have never seen one that way. John, can you confirm? Thanks
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But the John's statement about the little black ring between the chrome and the headlight has me stumped. On a non SS/RS HO car the painted part of the chrome style trim ring is supposed to be argent and match the grill??? Makes sense to me, but I have never seen one that way. John, can you confirm? Thanks
A non-SS Hugger Orange car gets a silver grille egg-crate and silver headlight bezels; if it's an SS, it gets a black grille egg-crate and black headlight bezels. In either case, if it has Z21 Style Trim, the bezels get a chrome ring; if it doesn't have Z21, it doesn't get a chrome ring. The bezel color always matches the grille egg-crate color.
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Yes John, but I think he´s talking about the crome ring, is it black or argent together with the crome?? I´ve just painted mine argent! :-[
Here is the pic I referred to before:
http://www.camaros.org/images/pages/cars/2009-01/69SS-Jan09-BruceOirear-Full.jpg
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John, I might be confused, but I am talking about just the chrome ring. There is a little bit of black painted on the chrome closest to the headlight. Should that match the grill paint too? I have only seen this in black. thanks
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According to the chart, SS cars got the bright headlight trim ring whether Z21 or not (kinda like the 1/4 gills?) :
http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#XnnCodes
There's an unrestored X66 locally that has the bright headlight and vertical taillight trim, but that's all I have to go by personally.
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John, I might be confused, but I am talking about just the chrome ring. There is a little bit of black painted on the chrome closest to the headlight. Should that match the grill paint too? I have only seen this in black. thanks
My original 02D Z/28 (X33 - with Z21) has the silver grille and bezels, and a narrow black ring painted between the bright ring on the bezel and the headlamp.
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My original 02D Z/28 (X33 - with Z21) has the silver grille and bezels, and a narrow black ring painted between the bright ring on the bezel and the headlamp.
So it´s supposed to be black then!! Oops, I´ve just painted that part Argent as well! :(
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My original 02D Z/28 (X33 - with Z21) has the silver grille and bezels, and a narrow black ring painted between the bright ring on the bezel and the headlamp.
Thanks John, that is what I remembered, Weewh! I though I was losing it.
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After spending week after week in the paint shop I finally got the grille back to my garage so I could start remounting it!
First I had to add the center bowtie enblem and the polished moldings:
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/Vren-2009002.jpg)
Here it´s a prefit of the grille:
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/Vren-2009007.jpg)
Now was the right time to put som new fresch buchings and screws from NPD in place:
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/Vren-2009011.jpg)
Here is the grille and front bvumper in place after hours od adjustments.
I also took the front spoiler of just for testing and I kind of like the new clean apparence! :)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/Vren-2009015.jpg)
I gotta take the HUgger for its first ride this year and this is the final result outside the garage:
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/Vren-2009016.jpg)
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looks great Hakan!
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Thanx Kewin! :)
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After spending week after week in the paint shop I finally got the grille back to my garage so I could start remounting it!
First I had to add the center bowtie enblem and the polished moldings:
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/Vren-2009002.jpg)
Here it´s a prefit of the grille:
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/Vren-2009007.jpg)
Here is the grille and front bvumper in place after hours od adjustments.
I also took the front spoiler of just for testing and I kind of like the new clean apparence! :)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h193/hugger69/Vren-2009015.jpg)
Hakan, your grille looks amazing! What paint code did you end up using?
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I checked with my painter today and he said it was Standox Argent Silver but he didn´t remeber any code, sorry! :-[
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Argent is PPG code DQE 8568
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If you want to rattle can the grille, use Krylon #1403, dull aluminum. It's right on the money. Actually the best match that I've seen.
How come that beautiful Hugger orange Camaro in the photos here has 1970 Firestone tires?
Jerry
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If you want to rattle can the grille, use Krylon #1403, dull aluminum. It's right on the money. Actually the best match that I've seen.
How come that beautiful Hugger orange Camaro in the photos here has 1970 Firestone tires?
Jerry
Thanx!
I´m not that ortodox that I use tire from the right year! I guess they had to change tire during the years too, when tey used a 69 Camaro during the 70:ies, don´t you! :)
...but I´m going to change to a set of Polyglass but for another reason......! :D
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If you want to rattle can the grille, use Krylon #1403, dull aluminum. It's right on the money. Actually the best match that I've seen.
Jerry
I agree, that is what I used on my grill!
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When the grill was painted body color I know the center egg crate section was covered so did the entire back side of grill get any or have minor to alot body color overspray?Been a long time since seeing an untouched original! Any pics of original showing it mounted in front sheetmetal?
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I bought this silver grill at a swap meet a while ago and pretty sure the garnet red paint is the factory overspray.
(http://www.fototime.com/A1E35D4039ED688/standard.jpg)
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Thanks Kevin for posting that pic...Did you find any signs of it being mask off on the back side to keep from getting on the argent? I would guess the amount of overspray would vary as well?
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I bought this silver grill at a swap meet a while ago and pretty sure the garnet red paint is the factory overspray.
(http://www.fototime.com/A1E35D4039ED688/standard.jpg)
For me, that looks the opposite! The silver is the over spray color....!
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Thanks Kevin for posting that pic...Did you find any signs of it being mask off on the back side to keep from getting on the argent? I would guess the amount of overspray would vary as well?
I don't recall looking for that kinda evidence :) but the back was not painted with silver, only from the front, so the back edges did not have silver. It appeared to be painted on a rack facing front and the body color being painted to cover the outside edges that show. That is where the overspray came from. There was little overspray on the bottom of the grill.
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Original grilles were cast in both silver and black plastic, the body color was applied to the proper base colored grille. There were 4 different grilles, black and silver non RS grilles, and black and silver RS grilles. The grill sections were never painted on grilles from the factory. GM eventually dropped the silver cast grilles from their service parts and only retained the 2 black ones, so after that point all SS, and Z28 standard grilles and RS grilles going on Black cars had to have the center sections painted silver, along with the body color around the perimeter.
Don't know what kind of rack the grilles were on when they got painted, but there had to be a center mask that fit over the grille sections to keep overspray off the grilles. No one masked each grill with tape.
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Mark, I did notice the center of my grill was silver as opposed to the plastic grey look of the grill. I would have thought the factory painted the silver (no mask), then masked the center and sprayed the body?
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That would defeat the purpose of havine silver and black cast parts. It all comes down to labor in an assembly line, if you have to paint the center of the grille silver wait for it to dry then mask and paint the surround, later theres a lot of wasted man hours, plus there would be no reason to have a silver and a black cast grille in your parts bins. if you just had a mask that fit into the headlight bucket openings and covered the grille area all you have to do is put the mask on, spray the surround and move on to the next. These guys on the line had just over a minute to mask and paint a grille at Norwood as that's the speed the cars were passing thru your station. They needed 912 of these grilles painted every day of the week.
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Hmm, then it must have been painted later in its life.
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Thanks Kevin for posting that pic...Did you find any signs of it being mask off on the back side to keep from getting on the argent? I would guess the amount of overspray would vary as well?
I don't recall looking for that kinda evidence :) but the back was not painted with silver, only from the front, so the back edges did not have silver. It appeared to be painted on a rack facing front and the body color being painted to cover the outside edges that show. That is where the overspray came from. There was little overspray on the bottom of the grill.
You are correct they were molded in grey plastic and painted silver, probably before they were shipped to the assembly plants... here is an original RS grille in DETAIL... These pictures were taken of the same grille the same day with the same camera.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Sqpy6KmJRQY/VB4PNpATk7I/AAAAAAAAIwA/gAcG7VZNURQ/w830-h578-no/grille_reverse_silver.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9ck64G9Wajs/VB4PNJ2ttEI/AAAAAAAAIv4/ns4veBHCjus/w755-h507-no/grille_reverse_silver_INSET.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-idyrEfN-_BM/URh-puxI7LI/AAAAAAAAIwY/Ir1aABO_Owc/w771-h578-no/Black69RSZ_05.03.11%2B012NEW.jpg)
If you have a piece of original silver grille and cut into it... there is no metallic in the grey, even if cut sanded and polished there is no evidence of any metallic in the molded plastic.
That leaves 2 possibilities either they were painted argent before they were shipped to assm, or maybe there was a deviation on what Mark was saying in that some type of an argent release film was sprayed in the mold when they were cast (this is my imagination thinking about how else a coating could be applied during a molding process, I have no idea if it is even possible in a production environment.)
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What you guys said, molded in gray plastic. Have cut into a few for repairs.
Mike
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I got a chance to work on a nos grill that was made from the gray plastic and it has had a light coat of silver sprayed on the center section because when wiped with lacquer thinner it was coming off as expected on my rag. The owner of the grill paid 1400.00 and it came with 2 bottom tabs broke off and complete break above the LH head light. I had always thought the centers were not painted and that was the reason for being cast in silver/gray plastic but now I can only go by the evidence I have seen on this 1 grill....?
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Glad you guys confirmed that I was not imagining the silver paint on the center of the grill! :D