CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: Dave69x33 on May 17, 2008, 03:17:31 PM
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I have seen several original 69Z, #1100837 alternators that had the "CZ4" ink stamping. What does the "4" indicate?
Was the 4 included on all 69Z alternators during the model production run?
I am photo documenting an original, numbers matching, Oct 69 "10D" Norwood Z28 that had its original alternator. Attached are the pics.
Thanks,
Dave
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Czechslovakia? I looked in Jerry's book and it just says CZ it didn't say what it meant, but I have seen somewhere that it was a broadcast code or something like that.
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I have the build sheet for my 73 Camaro and under ALT it says DE. I assume the codes were to pull the right part at the factory. Others here will know for sure
Pat
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CZ is the broadcast code.
I don't know on the 4, maybe the inspector or the alternator assembly line?
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I'd vote for the "4" being the identifier for the assembly line at Delco-Remy. The Delco-Remy alternator plant in Anderson, Indiana was the most automated manufacturing plant in GM in the 60's; aluminum ingots and copper wire came in one end, and alternators came out the other end at about 20,000 per day (about 1250 per hour, or one every three seconds).
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Is there any pattern as to how the stamp was applied? was it done after it was installed on the motor? was the stamp always on the top? on the front case? etc
I have seen the stamps for sale? are they acurrate recreations?
Thanks
Chris
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How positive are you that that is an original stamp?
I have only seen the ones with the #below when they have been re-applied, and ONLY THE NUMBER 4 was being reproduced.
I don't believe that is an original stamping, I have never seen a real one like that, and Pirkle doesn't do them like that either.
Only one restorer was doing those.
Add that code along with the Caution Fan sticker - IMO.
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was it done after it was installed on the motor?
The stamp was applied at Delco-Remy.
Pirkle has done mine for years, and I've never seen the number below the code either on known-original alternators.
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I've never seen the number below the code either on known-original alternators.
I have over 75 alternators here with lots of different codes.
Also, I have searched through PILES AND PILES of original alternators at various places.
Never have I seen an original with a number under the broadcast code like that.
However I have seen that same stamping many times on "over-restored" cars - that have EVERY kind of marking applied.
That CZ with the "4" is not the original stamping. IMO
That stamp could have been reapplied 30 years ago - who knows?
John Pirkle is the best - he does all mine too.
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I have a original 837 with build date of 9-E-23 with stamped CZ with the # 3 under it. I know the stamp is orginal as the alternator was early take off and it has never been restored.
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The friend of mine, who inherited this 69Z, received it from his sister. My friend's deceased brother-in-law purchased this car new and drove the car until 19,000 miles then parked it when it developed an engine problem. The engine problem was never fixed and this car was literally stored in a barn for 30 years until my friend took possession of the car.
Fortunately when my friend took possession of this Oct. '69, "10D", Norwood build Z28, it came complete with P.O.P, build sheet, window sticker, plus warranty related service work and misc, other service receipts. His brother-in-law even kept complete records of every oil change, and gas fill up and recorded the MPG! The car is a complete, original car. I am 99% sure that the alternator on this car is original to this car.
I live in Indianapolis and have a number of contacts that worked at the GM Delco Plant in Anderson, IN, about 35 miles NE of Indy. I'll try to track someone down who worked in the Delco-Remy plant who may be able to confirm the numbers connected to the CZ stamping.
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Here is a picture of the alternator from my Z/28. I bought the car 29 years ago with 16K on it. The date code lines up with the car and all the other parts, so I am 99.9% sure it is original to the car.
Mike
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Hard to dispute that last one.
More research is needed.
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I just e-mailed a guy that worked for years in several of the GM Anderson Remy plants to see if he knows, or knows of someone who did work in the plant that manufactured the alternators.
I'll keep everyone posted.
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Hello Everyone,
Here is a follow up to my original question.
I was able to locate someone from my local area who worked at the Delco Remy Plant in Anderson, Indiana, that manufactured GM alternators. This person worked in the plant from 1972 - 2000, and confirmed (as mention earlier in this discussion thread) that the "CZ" stamping was the broadcast code to ease identification during final vehicle assembly. Unfortunately, he was not able to positively confirm what the small number means that was included with the CZ stamping as shown. The following is the e-mail information I received. I’ll keep digging to find out what the number stamping means.
The "CZ" is known as the broadcast code. The broadcast code was used by the line side operator in the GM vehicle assembly plant to pick the proper generator from multiple wire bins at the generator mount station. The broadcast code was used as a more readable and quick shorthand (method to ID alternators) in lieu of the actual part number. The vehicle build sheet would actually call out the broadcast code. Generator broadcast codes were virtually always two characters. I do not know the purpose of the small "4" in the attached picture (the picture I posted). Plant 11 in Anderson did have multiple final assembly lines for the 10DN and 10SI and 12SI generators, whereas the other generator plants had only one final assembly line for each series of generator. It is possible that Plant 11 used a 3rd character in the broadcast code to distinguish which assembly line it was built on, but this is only a guess on my part. In later years a suffix to the generator build date code was used to designate which final assembly in which plant built the generator (i.e. A1 for Anderson line 1, Y for Albany, GA) because the same part numbers were routinely built in multiple plants to balance schedules and optimize freight to various vehicle assembly plants.
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Realize this is an old topic but have noted a number under the broadcast stamping including our 68 alternator and thought it might help if someone is searching information. When Pirkle Sr and Jr restored mine they did not add the "2". Wish they would have!
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Electrical/100_4693_zpscoxocuny.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Electrical/100_4693_zpscoxocuny.jpg.html)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z117/1-2-b-67L89/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Electrical/100_5250_zpsaxehcymo.jpg) (http://s192.photobucket.com/user/1-2-b-67L89/media/68%20Camaro%20Z28/Electrical/100_5250_zpsaxehcymo.jpg.html)
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Chick, do you have contact info for Mr. Pirkle Jr. (Did Sr. pass away?) See no website. I'd like to get my starter and not THE alternator, but an alternator I have for the Z out for restoration. thanks !
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Chick, do you have contact info for Mr. Pirkle Jr. (Did Sr. pass away?) See no website. I'd like to get my starter and not THE alternator, but an alternator I have for the Z out for restoration. thanks !
Yes, John Pirkle Sr. passed away maybe 4 or 5 years ago. Used to see him every Corvette Carlisle with Jr. I have not called them for years but try these numbers for John Pirkle Jr., 706 855-1177 and 706 799-7025 cell. I have not been hearing too many good things with long delays and not responding so not sure if things are OK or not. Check this out- http://www.camaros.net/forums/11-bench-racing/380457-john-pirkle-restorations.html
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Thanks. Good to know.
DW Cook restored my horn relay BTY, very pleased with his work. FYI if anyone needs, and his plate isn't full.
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I've had such good luck with the parts I've farmed out the last few years, to various shops, hate to get jaded now.
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IMO... there is more than '1 generation' difference between the Sr and the Jr....
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IMO... there is more than '1 generation' difference between the Sr and the Jr....
Are you referring to quality or genetics?
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IMO... there is more than '1 generation' difference between the Sr and the Jr....
Are you referring to quality or genetics?
As in most such situations... quality, knowledge, experience, etc