CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: lakeholme on November 09, 2007, 05:31:15 PM
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I'm fine tuning some painting and restoration plans for this winter...
I really need a picture of a documented original 68 grille. It would be great if you could include the headlights, bezels, etc. But I'm working on details, so it would be great if I could see them in the pictures.
Appreciate the help! ;D ;D ;D
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You are looking for pictures of the standard grille and not the RS......right?
Steve
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Well, you can't really see the grille all that well, but here is a picture taken of my 68 Camaro the day it was delivered (dosn't get any more original than that!):
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/Camaro/L30M207-6-68.jpg)
What do you need to know about the grille?
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Try post #14 in this thread. While not original it is correctly done:
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72981&highlight=grille
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Try post #14 in this thread. While not original it is correctly done.
Here it is: http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/479/1968camarorestopics0279iu.jpg
Paul
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Most 68's were black while later grilles (late May or Early June, 1968) were left gray. (Service replacements were also gray.)
Here are a couple of original cars for you to compare...
Ed
Most 68's:
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/bertfam/early.jpg)
Very late 68's:
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/bertfam/late.jpg)
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I don't know if it's original, but it loks right from these other pictures.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w112/68zproject/PB090400.jpg)
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While were on this subject what are the do's & don't of cleaning my factory black 68 SS grille. Like what cleaners not to use, because it looks like the plastic is black no paint.
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Most 68's were black while later grilles (late May or Early June, 1968) were left gray. (Service replacements were also gray.)
Wait, are you trying to say that the standard 68 grille was either all black or left 'plain plastic' grey? That can't be correct for all 68 cars. I painted my NOS grille to match my original grille. My original grille was grey plastic. The outside was painted satin black, and the inside was painted silver - just like the picture listed in 1968RSZ28's post.
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Seems mine is missing the front bumper guards and my emblem has a red bow tie instead of (blue or black?).
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Jeff,
Yes, most 68's had the black grill. However, starting in late May or early June, 1968, the factory did away with the black grill and went to the gray.
You are correct, the gray grill is not correct for all 68 cars. Just the one's after late May or early June, 1968.
Ed
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Yes, Steve, standard...
Thanks Ed and the rest for the pictures. And Ed answered my next question, because I have seen some very late 68 gray grills.
Hatman, I wash my classic cars with a properly diluted car wash solution and a wash mit. The biggest thing I would avoid on the grill is any household cleaning solution, especially any abrasive.
So, what sort of emblem is that on 68Zproject's car?
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My understanding is that the standard '68 Camaro grilles were natural grey--including the Z/28 and SS350--while the SS big-block cars had the grille painted black to match the tailpan. I'd like to know something definitive on this as well. As a sidenote, the '68 RS cars had chrome hot-stamped bars on the grille and headlight doors, while the '67 grille and doors were all black. My 2 cents for what it's worth.
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So, what sort of emblem is that on 68Zproject's car?
That's what I would like to know. It got me looking. I don't have my front bumper guards or the bracket in the middle above the license plate. I'm going to have some questions later about the brackets that hold the bumper on too.
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My understanding is that the standard '68 Camaro grilles were natural grey--including the Z/28 and SS350--while the SS big-block cars had the grille painted black to match the tailpan. I'd like to know something definitive on this as well.
I can tell you definitively that my original owner 68 L30/M20 was delivered with a grey plastic grille with the outer area painted satin black and the inner portion painted silver. That's a fact. I'm not sure why people keep saying that they were either all black or all grey. There are a few other threads about the correct painting of the 68 grilles that you may want to check out.
The emblem on 68Zproject's car is a standard grille emblem that is 'incorerctly' painted. The standard emblem should have a black bowtie with red vertical recessed stripes - just as shown in both of the pictures that bertfam posted.
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I can tell you definitively that my original owner 68 L30/M20 was delivered with a grey plastic grille with the outer area painted satin black and the inner portion painted silver. That's a fact.
What's you build date?
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My car was built in June. I forgot what week - I must be getting old. The car is at the paint shop, so I can't run to the garage to look at the tag.
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The emblem on 68Zproject's car is a standard grille emblem that is 'incorerctly' painted. The standard emblem should have a black bowtie with red vertical recessed stripes - just as shown in both of the pictures that bertfam posted.
I looked at it and somebody painted it red. Other than that it looked original or has seen a lot of miles.
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Are we saying for sure that both plants LOS and NOR,had gray grills starting around May or Jun 1968?
Mine was built in july 68 in NOR and as far as I can tell with pictures from previous owners,the grill always been black. ???
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Sebastian, how about posting a picture of your grille...
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ok pictures from 1977
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Are we saying for sure that both plants LOS and NOR,had gray grills starting around May or Jun 1968?
Mine was built in july 68 in NOR and as far as I can tell with pictures from previous owners,the grill always been black.
I can't say for sure. It's currently under investigation by the CRG, so there may be overlap, or more usage at one plant than the other. I just can't say without more data.
Ed
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...a picture of a documented original 68 grille.
Which explains why I started this thread with the above statement. The production of first generation Camaros was obviously a very "fluid" process for Chevy --"change" seems to have been a constant.
Ed, do you know the build date for the car in your picture listed "Most 68s"? My car is a 12D. I think my grille and bezels are original (but not documented) and they look like that.
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Phil, that particular car was built mid October, 1967. Here's a 12C for you. Couldn't find a good picture of a 12D.
Ed
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/bertfam/12C.jpg)
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Thanks a million, Ed!
Now, if the guy from the paint shop will just call...
That pic also raises another question: Shouldn't a 12C (or 12D) have a bumble bee stripe? Or did the change in stripe work in before January of 68?
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As has been stated, only the SS grille was all black.
The "standard" grille had Argent Silver bars, and a black surround. I have a non-SS November built car with the grille painted this way.
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I can't say for sure. It's currently under investigation by the CRG, so there may be overlap, or more usage at one plant than the other. I just can't say without more data.
Well said, Ed. That's exactly why I'm asking. Wish CRG already had a definitive answer. :)
JohnKY, can you post us a picture of your November built car? Is it documented original? ???
I have factory material that describes the grille: "...satin-silver horizontal bars over deep-set black for a wider look". The accompanying picture shows a standard emblem (which probably means little, since we've all seen inaccurate pictures with GM printed material.) But this particular material is describing the 68 Camaro in general and it is dated "Revised April 22, 1968". :)
Does anyone have documentation about a difference between non-SS and SS? BB vs others? ???
Does anyone actually have any documentation beyond what Ed has said and shown in pictures? ???
I'm not doubting anyone's input --as I said above, change seems to have been the rule of thumb-- but the venues I participate in rely on "factory documentation". ::) ::) ::)
Like Hodrod, I'd like to know something definitive. And that's what CRG is all about! Appreciate your input! ;D ;D ;D
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Does anyone actually have any documentation beyond what Ed has said and shown in pictures? ???
I'm not doubting anyone's input --as I said above, change seems to have been the rule of thumb-- but the venues I participate in rely on "factory documentation". ::) ::) ::)
What "factory documentation" would you like from me regarding my car? I posted a picture and made a statement of fact regarding my car, but that doesn't appear to be the same type of 'documentation' that Ed provided. If you are only concerned with early 68 cars, just say so and I will let it be.
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Jeff68, I've sent you a PM.
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Jeff68, I've sent you a PM.
Got it. Thanks. :)
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So, anybody got info. they can add to the questions that have surfaced about 68 grilles? Differences between eary and late built cars? Differences bewteen BB & others?
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Phil
I picked up this Nov. car a few years ago. It had been dis-assembled and stored in a barn for many years.
I believe the grille to be original judging by it's appearance and condition. Logic would dictate that "if" it had ever been replaced, why would someone go to the trouble of painting it this way if it hadn't been originally.
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Thanks JohnKy! So, does your November built look like the standard grille like Ed illustrates above as "Most 68s"?
That's exactly what mine looks like, but my car was partially restored by a previous owner, who also cloned a bit and put in a few "wrong but working" parts. I've talked with him and he is a great guy and a Chevy lover, but it's exactly his logic that sometimes mystifies me. I've spent more un-doing than restoring. But that's about tho change.
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All non-SS '68 standard grille cars (including Z/28) should have silver painted grille on the center bars with black surround as seen in the attachment. SS grilles were painted all black. The grilles were gray originally and painted by GM before installation on the car. On the replacement grilles, they are left gray and it is up to the purchaser to paint them correctly. This way they sell one part to suit SS and non-SS applications. Original grilles will have brackets riveted on the back (which connect to the headlight mounting brackets). Most replacement grilles will either have the brackets held on with machine screws & nuts or people will often just leave the brackets off.
-Jon
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Another grille shot. This is the Pete Estes Z convertible, built July '68.
-Jon
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Jon Mello has this right. Argent silver paint on the std grilles for Camaro and Z28, and black for the SS models.
Jerry
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When and why did they put the cowl hood on Pete Estes' Z/28? ???
Paul
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All non-SS '68 standard grille cars (including Z/28) should have silver painted grille on the center bars with black surround as seen in the attachment.
-Jon
The black surround, is that just what can be seen in your picture ie: not in-between the horizontal and vertical slats on the grill? And, does anyone know what paint was used or can be used for the black?
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Could that be a rare factory fiberglass hood on Estes' car? GM made a rare limited run of fiberglass cowl hoods in '68 as I understand it, and if anyone would have had access to one, it would be Pete Estes! It's common knowledge they were available through the "back door" during the Trans Am wars--just like the crossram and headers and JL-8 rear disc brakes. Or is this a myth as well, like the elusive photo of the highly-optioned black-and-gold '69 ZL-1 with a guy who looks like Michael Savage driving it?
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Thanks Jon and Jerry. I'd like like to know about the details ofpainting and which paint for the standard grille, as well.
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The outer boarders of this grille are painted semi gloss black. It is only the egg crate section and directional housings that are silver.
Regarding the P. Estes car, the tech center installed a lot of special goodies on that car so chances are it's a one of one proto type hood.
Jerry
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Could that be a rare factory fiberglass hood on Estes' car? GM made a rare limited run of fiberglass cowl hoods in '68 as I understand it, and if anyone would have had access to one, it would be Pete Estes! It's common knowledge they were available through the "back door" during the Trans Am wars--just like the crossram and headers and JL-8 rear disc brakes. Or is this a myth as well, like the elusive photo of the highly-optioned black-and-gold '69 ZL-1 with a guy who looks like Michael Savage driving it?
Yes, that's a prototype fiberglass cowl induction hood. Notice the prop rod attached to the passenger side fender brace and the lack of usual hood springs. It must be being held up by somebody out of camera view. This hood was on the car when it was the pace car at the Road America Can-Am race (Elkhart Lake, WI) in August 1968.
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Check out www.gmphotostore.com
There are several pictures of 68 Camaros with gray grilles. It looks like none of the grilles are painted with black and silver. I assume most of the pictures are from early production and used for advertising.
I would be surprised if the grille was painted two different colors since of the labor involved.
Maybe I will try and remove some of the black paint from my 68 original grille to see the original color.
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Check out www.gmphotostore.com
There are several pictures of 68 Camaros with gray grilles. It looks like none of the grilles are painted with black and silver. I assume most of the pictures are from early production and used for advertising.
I would be surprised if the grille was painted two different colors since of the labor involved.
Maybe I will try and remove some of the black paint from my 68 original grille to see the original color.
69 grilles had body color on them from the factory... it wasn't too much trouble a year later...
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Fellows--I was studying the pics of Estes' car again, and is that a D33 remote mirror on the driver's door? My assembly manual says they were canceled--is this yet another rare option on this one-of-a-kind Z?
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It may have been cancelled, but we have a lot of documented cars with the D33 option in the database. (My car has it and it's a 05D build.)
A total of 4,740 cars came with this option in 1968. If it was cancelled, they reinstated it at some point during the year.
Ed
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Hey all,
Sorry to resurface this old thread, but as I read through it I never felt like there was a definitive answer on the grille color change for the late 68 Camaros, and some contradictory statements. I also looked up other threads and couldn't find anything, and no further research on the topic in the research area.
I have a early July 68 Camaro, that I believe was a 350 SS. I can't document that, but I'm building it that way. So for that late model of Camaro, would the standard grille be all black, or black on the outside surface and gray in the middle area, or black on the outside surface area and argent silver in the middle (this is the direction I'm leaning after trying to decipher the comments)? Thanks for any help you can provide.
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For a '68 SS the standard grille would be all black, no silver.
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Thank you Jon. I just wasn't sure based on a couple posts if that was the case, or the late May - July cars, even the SS 350, were silver in the middle. Much appreciated, I guess mine is correct.
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How about a second-week-of-June '68 Z - mine is all argent, but a replacement as it does not have the headlight bucket side brackets installed (since purchased as repops). What should it be ?
Regards,
Steve
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Silver with the outer black. Just looked at the blue car.
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Thanks guy - I'll probably correct it before I re-install it. I have to add the brackets anyway -
Regards,
Steve
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How about a 04C 68 BB SS