CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: 9T4Z on August 04, 2007, 09:29:26 PM
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OK with T3's becoming very rare (and the repop correct only for 55-57 Chevy's).....
Are the PowerBeam headlamps an acceptable bulb for "show judged competitions"?
These bulbs were available in 70's as GM replacements for the T3 and was wondering if the "Judges" were becoming more flexible here...
thanks if anyone knows...
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i had the original t3 lamps in my 68z, worked fine so i thought i drove it to auto mania car show one nite and on the way home they both burned out. moral of the story do not trust old lamps, use them at a day time car show and put in some modern lamps.
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The entire classic car world is still debating headlamps and radial tires...
It really would be great if Camaro had the kind of judging specs that Vette owners do, but looks like that will never happen.
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It really would be great if Camaro had the kind of judging specs that Vette owners do, but looks like that will never happen.
In NCRS Corvette judging, T-3 headlamps are allocated a total of 12 originality points (3 per lamp); Service replacement GM/Guide headlamps get a 70% deduction, any other brand of replacements get a full 100% deduction. However, reproduction T-3's that vary in appearance from the originals only by the DOT marking only get a 25% deduction (3 points) for a full set of 4.
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BTW, I suppose I should have added that the debate is originality versus safety. Afew years ago, it was hard to even get it discussed. Now, at least it is discussed...
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I run the original 40+ year old T-3’s that came in my car when it was new. I often drive at night and the light they cast is every bit as bright as my “modern” vehicles.
I give the original Guide T-3 headlights the highest of ratings for lighting up the dark road and extremely long life.
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I run the original 40+ year old T-3’s that came in my car when it was new. I often drive at night and the light they cast is every bit as bright as my “modern” vehicles.
I give the original Guide T-3 headlights the highest of ratings for lighting up the dark road and extremely long life.
Sorry can't agree with the first statement.... perhaps its your definition of "modern".... ;)
Long lasting... well 40 years can't be argued with...
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I run the original 40+ year old T-3’s that came in my car when it was new. I often drive at night and the light they cast is every bit as bright as my “modern” vehicles.
I give the original Guide T-3 headlights the highest of ratings for lighting up the dark road and extremely long life.
They'll last even longer if you clean and apply epoxy around where each terminal emerges from the glass as a secondary seal; that's where the original seal deteriorates, allowing air to leak into the bulb, resulting in blackening first, then filament failure. :)
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I noticed the 70 chevelles have the T-3 lamps and my 71 chevelle has the power beam lamps and also in a pic on the 71 chevelle dealer brochour the SS chevelle has them in the pic,so I would guess that 1971 was the first year for the power beams.
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I run the original 40+ year old T-3’s that came in my car when it was new. I often drive at night and the light they cast is every bit as bright as my “modern” vehicles.
I give the original Guide T-3 headlights the highest of ratings for lighting up the dark road and extremely long life.
Sorry can't agree with the first statement.... perhaps its your definition of "modern".... ;)
I can. Original headlights in my 67 and they perform as well (performance = illuminate the road) as my 2005 F150, my 2001 Chrysler minivan, my old 1996 Ford Ranger, etc.
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I run the original 40+ year old T-3’s that came in my car when it was new. I often drive at night and the light they cast is every bit as bright as my “modern” vehicles.
I give the original Guide T-3 headlights the highest of ratings for lighting up the dark road and extremely long life.
Sorry can't agree with the first statement.... perhaps its your definition of "modern".... ;)
I can. Original headlights in my 67 and they perform as well (performance = illuminate the road) as my 2005 F150, my 2001 Chrysler minivan, my old 1996 Ford Ranger, etc.
Well that explains it..... I've only ever owned GM's :)
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Factory installed Power beams have been found in late production 1969 Camaros and are acceptable. The 05A survivor that I owned had them. We also went through this many years ago judging at the International Camaro Club Camaro Nationals. Would not install them in anything earlier than this (May 1969) if you want full judging credit.
Jerry
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FYI - I found NOS T-3 headlights from a place called Dated Components in Kempton, PA (610-756-6453) a while back. He may still have some. I tested them, but after seeing the light output I have no intention of actually using them for night driving.
Also, Lectric Limited claims that they will have the 'correct' T-3 reproduction headlights available in September. If these are good reproductions, I may just end up selling my NOS lights and get these:
http://www.lectriclimited.com/mainpage.htm
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Jerry my Camaro is 05A so now at least I have a choice....
Jeff thanks for the information... will keep track of it.
ps sell the NOS now before those repo's come out... they look good and if so the NOS prices will drop off :o
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I noticed the 70 chevelles have the T-3 lamps and my 71 chevelle has the power beam lamps and also in a pic on the 71 chevelle dealer brochour the SS chevelle has them in the pic,so I would guess that 1971 was the first year for the power beams.
Ron, actually the 70 Monte Carlo was the first Chevrolet passenger car to get the Power Beams. My theory has been since Chevrolet switched to the Power Beams for the 70 model year, some late 69 Camaros would have them instead of the T3's. Jerry's answer surprised me about May built 69's possibly having the Power Beams. I have found that just about all 1970 model Chevrolet cars that had the 2 headlamp system used the Power Beams, there have been a few exceptions where T3's were found in early cars. The 70 Chevelle still used the T3's as did most of the GM carlines that had the same 4 headlamp system. Last week I looked at a low mile unrestored 70 Corvette and 3 of its lamps were T3's, the other was a Power Beam. The owner could not say whether the light was changed or not. I am not sure what the norm was for Corvettes though. JohnZ can shed some light on that one. So your 71 Chevelle will have the Power Beams..............RatPack...........................
BTW, John, I have epoxied every good T3 I have now so as not to get any air leakage into them. Thanks for the tip!............................
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Also should mention that Bob Harris from Camaro Specialties has documented some summer built 69 Camaros with power beams. This topic came up over 15 years ago at the Camaro Nationals. Others have been found since then.
Jerry
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Also should mention that Bob Harris from Camaro Specialties has documented some summer built 69 Camaros with power beams. This topic came up over 15 years ago at the Camaro Nationals. Others have been found since then.
Jerry
Jerry, same is true of Corvettes - many late known-original 69's have been documented with Power Beam lamps.
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Lectric Limited claims that they will have the 'correct' T-3 reproduction headlights available in September. If these are good reproductions, I may just end up selling my NOS lights and get these:
http://www.lectriclimited.com/mainpage.htm
Has anyone tried the T-3 Reproductions that Lectric Limited has?
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Lectric Limited claims that they will have the 'correct' T-3 reproduction headlights available in September. If these are good reproductions, I may just end up selling my NOS lights and get these:
http://www.lectriclimited.com/mainpage.htm
Has anyone tried the T-3 Reproductions that Lectric Limited has?
I've used their 7" two-lamp reproductions in my C1 Corvettes in the past, and have their four-lamp reproductions in my '67; they're made for Lectric Limiited by Wagner Electric. Functionally they work fine, and differ from the originals only by having the tiny DOT marking on the lens. Original T-3's aren't much better than a kerosene lantern in terms of driving at night.
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Were head lights date coded? I have a 05A Norwood RS 69Z, VIN N638712 that had 45K miles on it prior to my restoration. I would like to know what the "H127" and "J4" with a larger "2" scrip on the top center area of head lamp stood for?
Was the scrip “Guide Sealed Beam" on the bottom center area common on all the T3's?
One of my T3's is blackened so the advice to use epoxy to seal air out is much appreciated. Hopefully the tip will keep the blackening from getting worse.
I install the T3's only if I attend a judged Camaro event or an event where originality is important. It extremely rare that I drive my car at night so leaving the T3's would not be that big of a deal.
Thanks in advance for any input anyone can give.
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T-3's were date coded, but it's on the BACK side; see chart from the Guide drawing below.
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Just for the record there is a 1-owner September 69 build car nearby that has one of each.