CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: rjprice on July 20, 2007, 03:06:19 AM
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I have a car I purchased about 12 years ago and I would like to get comments on the "numbers". Does it look right?
Body tag:
ST69 12467 NOR304192 BDY
TR 720 50APNT
03E Z11
Vin: 124679N626575
Engine: T0409HB
The last digits of the VIN are stamped by the oil filter and under the cowl.
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Looks fine.
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Thanks. I have heard alot of conflicting information over the years about prodution data. I just found this forum and want to learn as much as possible about my car. I bought it in Richmond VA in 1994 and the owner said it was numbers matching. Before I plunk down a lot of cash to restore it, I want to know what I'm starting with.
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1 = Chevrolet
2 = Camaro
4 = 8-cylinder engine
67 = convertible body
9 = 1969 model year
N = Norwood, OH assembly plant
626575 = vehicle serial number sequence
Decode for body number: 304192
03E = Built the Fifth week of March.
69-12467 = Convertible.
NOR = Built in Norwood Ohio.
720 = Custom Orange Houndstooth Bucket Seats.
50-A = Lower Color is Dover White and the Convertible Top Color is White.
Z11 = Indy Pace Car accents - Convertible
In case you didnt know it's a Pace Car Convertible. :)
T = Tonawanda Engine
0409 = April 9th
HB = 350/300hp with Turbo 350 trans
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Thanks for the info. Does it matter that the engine date is after the car build date?
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Thanks for the info. Does it matter that the engine date is after the car build date?
Most of what I've read says that the engine should be dated prior to the car build date.... but...maybe someone else can chime in.
If you had the protect-o-plate the engine # would have been stamped on that..
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Thanks for the info. Does it matter that the engine date is after the car build date?
Normally it does. But not in this case. The build date is inaccurate here.
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What does that mean?
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Is the VIN wrong for the Build date (or vice versa)? Before I bought the car, I talked to some people at the Northern Virginia Camaro club who had seen the car and they said it was a pace car. Is it possible the VIN was stamped on the motor to make it look numbers matching?
The car has been repainted but all of the old overspray (pre-repaint) is dover white and you can see orange under the peeling "new" paint under the cowl grill. You can also see the old stripes under the hood edge and trunk/spoiler.
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#'s are fine.
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Is this VIN in the database?
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No, it was not.
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Kurt, Could expand on why the #'s are fine?
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We have data on 14,000+ cars. Comparing you car's data to other cars built at the same time, it looks fine.
I'd be curious what the axle code is. :)
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I'll see if I can find it. The rear is pretty rusty.
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It took considerable effort but the rear is:
BL 0402G2
I just cannot read the date because the casting is so rough. I'm going to keep trying to clean it up so I can read it. I saw CON1 on the other side. Is the date code upside down, too?
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Here's where it will be: http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml#RearAxleNumbers
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I read that page in order to find the code on the axle tube. I think the last two digits of the date code are 8 & 9. I'm going to keep trying to clean it up to read it. Does the axle code help?
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Sorry, I somehow missed your post of the code.
BL is 3.07 12 bolt posi. Built April 2nd. Looks perfect for the car. Note that it is built in April like the engine.
The last major date to check would be the trans code on the trans pan.
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This one was easy. The trans code is: Y9C03D. I'm still trying to get the casting date for the center section of the rear.
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That one looks fine too. March 3rd, day shift.
I wouldn't worry too much on the axle casting date. I don't think I've ever checked either of my cars. ;)
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So Kurt, could one conclude that the car is number matching?
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Yes (with the caveat that the pad stamping should be confirmed to be an original).
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I'll try to post pictures of both the pad stamping and the trim tag.
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Here are pictures of the trim tag and pad stamp.
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Both look fine! :)
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I know I am responding to an 8 year old post but i just received the shipping data report for my car from NCRS. I shows an official production date of 4/14/1969. Original delivery dealer was Key City Motors, Kankakee, Il.
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Congrats! Now, start posting. 21 posts in 8 years ? I am sure you have plenty to share and you, yourself, I am confident are a very interesting person who has had your car awhile. Best to ya!
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Welcome back
I agree with Bentley :) You left many hanging for 8 years...lol ;D Me? ??? not so much as I'm still new here with just a year under my belt. But it sounds like you have a cool car and a good story. Any pics ? Did you ever start restoring ? What's the current stage today?
Curious minds wanna know ;D
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Thanks for the kind words. I have not started a resto yet but I hope to soon. I am in the process of researching what parts I need(alternator, master cylinder, etc). I also hope to build a barn to do the resto in.
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Thanks for the kind words. I have not started a resto yet but I hope to soon. I am in the process of researching what parts I need(alternator, master cylinder, etc). I also hope to build a barn to do the resto in.
Most on here started the same way, so you are in good company. I too, have a 3E Nor. car with April components. Not a Pace Car. Sounds like you have a car worth taking care of and fixing up. Couple of friends, down here where I live, in Cincy area have unrestored pace cars and crowds flock to them passing up the shiny stuff...just something to consider. It is only original once. and thanks for coming back and being active, we need guys like you.
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A question about block castings. I have a 618 block and the CRG website says: The 3956618 block was also used in mid-69 production and was cast at Flint. My engine has a Tonowanda engine prefix. Were some 618s cast at Tonowanda?
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If your engine is the 618 casting from Tonawanda, then apparently they did.. :)
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I'm not sure they were cast there. Apparently there was some exchange of blocks between the locations to ensure machining compatibility.
Does your block have the oil plug above the waterpump? It should have a square plug. See Pic #3 - http://www.camaros.org/pdf/flint_engine.pdf
Quote from JohnZ:
Flint engines (Saginaw castings) have the hole and plug and Tonawanda engines (Tonawanda castings) don't due to different machining processes for an intersection in the front of the main oil gallery; Flint tapped the hole and installed the 1/8" NPT plug after gun-drilling to create the gallery intersection at the end of the hole.
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I'm not sure they were cast there. Apparently there was some exchange of blocks between the locations to ensure machining compatibility.
Does your block have the oil plug above the waterpump? It should have a square plug. See Pic #3 - http://www.camaros.org/pdf/flint_engine.pdf
Quote from JohnZ:
Flint engines (Saginaw castings) have the hole and plug and Tonawanda engines (Tonawanda castings) don't due to different machining processes for an intersection in the front of the main oil gallery; Flint tapped the hole and installed the 1/8" NPT plug after gun-drilling to create the gallery intersection at the end of the hole.
My engine does not have the plug. I moved the alternator and did not see it.
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My 618 casting Tonawanda stamped(T0512HA) motor does not have the plug.
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That's what I expect (since Tonawanda machined it), but it doesn't confirm if it's a Tonawanda or Saginaw casting.
Bergy or JohnZ,
Any ideas on how to tell where it was cast? The date formats are the same in 67-9.
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From my minimal experience - T cast lower right side of cam hole under timing cover represents Tonawanda Possibly a T cast into the block under the fuel pump boss
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I will check for a T this evening.
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I recall reading(maybe on this site?) that Tonawanda year cast date was 2 digits(69) and Saginaw was 1 digit(9).
I couldn't make out the cast date last time I checked but I will look at it again.
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69ssrag, Has this stamp you posted been certified real? Just curious the way the broaching looks. Danny
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Yes, certified real original.
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Awesome, just thought the broaching looking a little too smooth. Still learning... D
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Tonawanda often used two digits for the year, but not in 67-69.
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I couldn't find a T...so at this point, we don't know if it was cast at Saginaw and shipped to Tonawanda or cast and built at Tonawanda.
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I should add that I recently added that comment about the 6618 block casting usage.
I'd researched the 388 usage and realized the 6618 could be the same thing. Relooking at the data, it's not as clear for the 6618 as I thought. Muddy enough that without some other backing data, I retract the statement.
Thanks for keeping me honest!
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Thanks for clarifying, Kurt.