CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: 67conv6cyl on January 24, 2023, 10:58:39 PM
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I’m doing my best for a legends class restoration on my 67 convertible, my original sway bar and front springs appeared to be raw steel from factory with no signs of ever having paint on them….So that’s what I was doing, however everywhere I look it says that sway bar from factory was painted black….was there any exceptions?
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End links also look replaced / Serviced.
Comment intended as a productive awareness.
v/r
Jim
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I appreciate any help, not at all offended…original end links are just rust looking I couldn’t tell on correct finish, What type of finish should they be?
I’m going for a original as left factory (not over restored) so before stickers are put on springs I just wanted to make sure my finishes are correct. The legends manual shows spring and sway bar painted black end links, I thought were a cad finish.
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Sway bar is painted black. Springs should be heat tempered steel with a bluish black finish. Not painted black
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Do the springs look correct here? They are not painted however are heat tempered steel.
Also would sway bar be satin or gloss black?
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Sway bar would be satin or semi-gloss. No the springs do not look right
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These two photos are from “Legends Judging Manual” 1967 & 1968….one spring looks exactly like mine other is black….not sure what ones correct or are neither exactly correct?
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Does it specify? Juuuuuuust curious. 🤔🤔🧐🧐
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It does not specify which one is correct ….it shows pictures of what they judge and how many points for each category. I just assumed both were correct. Although one appears to be a 1968 other appears to be 1967 by looking at control arm bumpers. I’m not sure if they were different for ear year..
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It would appear that 67conv6cyl First photo also has a UNC sway bar end link Machine screw instead of the usually found UNF fine thread?
The Nut appears to be a modern Nylock locking nut also which is or was not used.
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Thanks Jim, What dose UNC and UNF stand for?
The end links have been on this car since 1991 (32 years) Its funny that they are considered “modern”, the front springs I believe I bought from Heinrich Chevrolet in 1991 they are just unpainted natural steel that have just aged a bit over time and have a slight tinge of tarnish. This car has been in temperature conditioned room for the last 34 years. I have also realized over the years that it doesn’t mater even if the parts are GM replacement parts bought from Chevrolet dealership they are still not the same as the factory originals.
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Proper "Replacement" Hardware.
https://www.amkproducts.com/bulk-fasteners-products/?Product_ID=11706
https://www.amkproducts.com/search-result/?ser=3654642
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"......What dose UNC and UNF stand for?"
This from Google - - -
UNF threads are Unified fine pitch threads, while UNC threads are Unified coarse pitch threads. UNF and UNC thread screws are both used for fastening, but mainly applied in different fields. coarse thread has higher strength and find thread is better for sealing.
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Here is the description of the front springs from the manual - Springs should be a natural finish, blued or dark phosphate. Paint is not acceptable. The sway bar is painted semi-gloss black. When doing the manual, we tried to use photos of what would be correct. The 68 Z28 used was restored nearly 30 years ago. It was used to show the original body panels with spot welds ( especially rear wheel wells), original interior, and original engine and components. Back then, bare steel painted springs were acceptable. The photo above was used to show the original tie rod adjuster and hardware. Repos are different Could not avoid getting the spring in the background. Nor could it readily be taken out and have a correct finish put on. The sway bar links in the photos have the correct finish. Please look at what the photos are being used for with the captions. Not perfect but go with the descriptions
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Thanks for clearing that up….that makes sense. I just assumed that all pictures shown had factory correct finishes. So I just thought that Norwood cars and LA cars had different finishes.
I kept all the original parts that were on my car from the factory and looked very close at the springs for any signs of paint and didn’t see any.
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Sway bars on cars I restore were natural steel. Don't want to maintain it? Simple. Go in your paint booth and mix a that will match, I do it everyday. Gotta love a person who will dump 400k into a car only worth 100K at best.
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Sway bars on cars I restore were natural steel. Don't want to maintain it? Simple. Go in your paint booth and mix some that will match. Gotta love a person who will dump 400k into a car only worth 100K at best.
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I've yet to see a Legends Manual so not for me to shade it. But if everyone is supposed to dissect pertinent info out of pics that normally would show what or how to achieve successful restoration procedures, I can understand the confusion.
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My opinion is that the manual is very good and I have learned some things I didn’t know.
I’m glad I purchased it.
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Springs were heat treated, sent to the plant and installed. There was no coating on them. It's a hard steel and doesn't rust like softer steels.
They may have been dipped in an oil as part of the heat treat - exceeding my knowledge here. :)
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Oil quench after heat treating.
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Depends on the steel if they need to use an oil quench. Without knowing the steel.....
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Thank for the knowledge, thanks Jim for pointing out the end links, I will now change to correct ones.
my goal is to restore this car to look like a brand new factory unrestored show room new car. (Not over restored). Original dated sheet metal everywhere, ALL nuts and bolts factory correct originals, all components assembly line correct and dated as build date on trim tag, factory painted as the factory would have, only exception being base coat clear coat paint.
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68Z (LOS) Pre restoration
Sway Bar finish
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Depends on the steel if they need to use an oil quench. Without knowing the steel.....
Are the sway bars not carbon steel? If they are then they were oil quenched. If an alloy then oil is not required to quench.
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I have seen painted coil springs.
Survivor '68 Chevelle.
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All steels are an alloy and carbon steel isn't very specific. You can quench is all kinds of mediums which cause different heat transfer rates. Water quench is commonly used for lots of steel grades. Oil has a slower cooling rate.
I'll nudge Rich and he can expound on the topic at length. :)
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My once per decade login/post. ;D What Kurt said is correct, in that there are all sorts of heat treats and all sorts of alloys, even just within the generic class of carbon steels. Without knowing the details of the metallurgy (and I'm not privy to the alloys being used for roll bars at that time, or any time for that matter) or the specific design objective, the part could be air quenched, water quenched, oil quenched, (some other medium), or no heat treat at all (though that is less likely than some type of quench). Rich
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All steels are an alloy and carbon steel isn't very specific. You can quench is all kinds of mediums which cause different heat transfer rates. Water quench is commonly used for lots of steel grades. Oil has a slower cooling rate.
I'll nudge Rich and he can expound on the topic at length. :)
Thanks for the replies,
I’m aware of quenching processes. The premise of my original statement was Kurt mentioning oil after heat treat. Hence me saying oil quench. Fair point on all steels are alloy. My point was if using an alloy like chromoly or A-2 or even D-2 then it would be oil quench.
Here is an interesting read along with videos on how Hellwig makes their sway bars.. btw they are oil quenched.
Hellwig Process (https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/how-a-sway-bar-is-made/)
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And yes I’m aware that D2 & A2 are tool steels. “I’ve been doing this for 10 years..”. Sorry I couldn’t resist.. ;D