CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Garage Talk => Topic started by: 67L48 on June 29, 2022, 06:06:39 PM
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All of the various reputable restoration shops I have spoken to are only interested in entire-car restoration -- turn a rusty frame into the car of your dreams sort of project.
I don't need that. I need a reputable shop that can yank my original 350, rebuild it (and the Rochester QuadraJet), paint it, and put it back in. I need a mini-restoration that is 80% focused on the engine. Again, the only shops that come highly recommended just aren't into this kind of restoration and they're 3-4 years out on any sort of project.
I'm in the northeast corner of Iowa and can range from Madison, WI on the east, Minneapolis, MN on the north, and all of Iowa to the south and west (Des Moines ... though I could go as far as Omaha).
I'm out of my depth and don't even know how to find a shop that can do this work and do it right.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
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Not from your area but look for a smalltown shop, (probably not on the internet). They may not do engine rebuilding so offer to send it to a machine shop and also send your Qjet to one of the carb guys and offer to pay them for removal and reinstalling the engine. If you want the engine pay painted like a restoration you may have to do that yourself. Finding anyone to do anything is difficult these days. The guy I have been using for years just retired so I need to find someone near me also.
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Thanks. I'm going down that path ... see if there's a local shop I feel comfortable with, cross my fingers, and hope for the best. There are so many horror stories of shops machining off castings and other markings that destroy the parts' provenance and history. It makes me nervous.
I may also send off the quadrajet to one of the restoration shops (many have been recommended here through a search). That will do good to get my boy moving again, but the engine rebuild will eventually be necessary for my car to be fun again.
If anyone else has any Iowa shop recommendations, please feel free to post them here. Thanks.
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You can check with Jim up in Rochester, MN he kind of likes the 1967 L48s. I sold him a bare block a few years back. Let me find his information. I will send it to you. His username is jaybee
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What’s wrong with the engine?
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Lars Grimsrud can mail order rebuild your Quadrajet so you just have to bolt it on and run it. He has done a LOT of these for the enthusiast community. I trust him 100%.
v8fastcars@msn.com
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What’s wrong with the engine?
I don't know that anything is wrong with it, per se. It's just old. Really, really old. It has about 65,000 original miles on it. Not a ton, but the miles + the years = skepticism from me.
I've owned the car since 1989. When I drove it in the early 1990s, it had tons of pop. Over time, it seemed to have lost it's pep. It sat a lot between 1995 - 2004. I had the carb worked on in ~2005, but it's never really been the same car I remember. I drove it sparingly between 2005 - 2017 and it's pretty much sat in my garage for the pas 4-5 years (which has been very hard on the car). At this point, the carb is really fouled up (stuck float, delaminated choke diaphragm). There are a number of carb rebuilders/restorers that are recommended here on the forums. So, I could always send that off to one of those good shops.
But, I'd really like to paint the engine. So, if (1) the engine is already coming out of the car, (2) it's a really old engine, and (3) I'm not thrilled with the power it seems to be producing, then maybe it's a good idea for a tear-down, clean, and rebuild? I really want it running like a factory-fresh engine.
I'm in contact with the shop recommended by bcmiller above: https://besperformance.com/about.html. I'll be talking with him next week to see what his thoughts are.
It still looks OK ... just don't get too close or you'll find the 25 years of rock chips and such. So, I'm not in a huge hurry to repaint the car (though it needs it). I just want to really enjoy driving it again. Oh, and those tires in the pic were put on the car in 1991. So, it's probably time to replace those, too. ;D I think I'll either go with original D70-14 redlines (in Firestone's new bias-looking radials) or maybe the F70-14 for a bit bigger tire. I think it's wearing 215/70R14 today, which already seem like little bicycle tires to me.
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Looking Good, I can Second the Coker built Radial-Bias ply red lines you WILL enjoy that for sure Looks and performance BOTH.
Jim
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“I had the carb worked on in ~2005, but it's never really been the same car I remember.”
You just answered your question. Once that’s done, take it to the local self serve car wash and blast the crud off. You can spend time on the sidelines with an unnecessary project or you can drive it and enjoy it.
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Great looking car!
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Whoever ends up doing the machine work on your engine, make sure they understand that it is of great importance that the factory numbers and broach marks are left untouched. It will ruin the originality if they do so and you will take a big hit on the cars value. Get it in writing if you can. It's that important.
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Elvis has left the building.
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Whoever ends up doing the machine work on your engine, make sure they understand that it is of great importance that the factory numbers and broach marks are left untouched. It will ruin the originality if they do so and you will take a big hit on the cars value. Get it in writing if you can. It's that important.
That's my biggest fear. It's currently a factory set up and, as you (and many others) say, it's super easy to destroy the provenance of these cars with careless machining.
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OK, so Baier's Engine Service (http://"http://www.besperformance.com/") is going to get my business. The owner has a 1967 Camaro and takes care to keep all markings and numbers correct. He knows his way around a 350 SB and, specifically, a 350 SB from a 1967 Camaro. That makes me feel good. He said he'd likely do a complete rebuild with a very slight overbore, new pistons/rings, new hardened valve seats for unleaded fuel, something about a cam that I didn't understand, and maybe something about the valves themselves that I didn't understand.
What doesn't make me feel good is that he only takes the engine, not the car. So, I have to figure out a way to get the engine out of the car. Phase 1 will be to find a shop to yank the engine. Phase 2 will be how to move my car around when it has no engine. :D
I'm excited to get this going, though.
Question: Other than the numbers and such, are there things that I should be careful to avoid in this rebuild? Make sure that you don't swap out the ________.
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Other than the engine internals that are being worked on there isn't anything else left other than the external bolt on's. Just try to keep the original bolts throughout the build along with the build, other than ones that might be of integral strength issues. (AMD is a good source for those) Label everything you take off, take notes and take pictures of how the were originally installed. Try to keep them together in specific groups while and after cleaning them. It will save you time when you get ready to put things back together. Now would also be a good time to look at your rubber hoses, mounting hardware (clips, brackets, etc.) and such to see if they are still useable and if not get the proper replacements with originality in mind. That's what comes off the top of my head. Others might have more suggestions that I haven't thought of as of yet.
Edit: If the carb needs any cleaning or work along with the tank, fuel lines, it would be a good time to address these while the engine is out of the way along with cleaning the engine bay and other areas that might need a refreshing. Just plan it smart and make it easy on yourself, in other words.
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Thanks, adjudimo. I appreciate the response. I have a buddy with a shop and hoist who recently restored his 1966 Mustang. While he's only ever pulled Ford engines and transmissions, he's convinced that we can do this ourselves.
I'll be taping, labeling, and photographing everything. Like you said, it's a great time to swap out any other components that need refreshing. All of my rubber/polymer items are original. So, engine mounts, body mounts, most of the hoses, and so on are all 55 years old. To the extent that the power steering pump has any seals, those will also need to be replaced. I also have had a squeaky blower fan since 1991 that might be finally ready to be replaced. :D
I'm excited to do the work, but pretty apprehensive about doing something like this that I've never done before.
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As of this Saturday (8/20), the engine came out. I was shocked by how easily everything unbolted, including the exhaust manifold bolts.
Engine goes up north to Rochester, MN to be rebuilt. Thanks to those who have given sound advice here ... I'm looking forward to moving this forward.
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I suggest one extra step to that already stated by adjudimo:
clean the stamped pad at the front of the engine with a solvent and then put a piece of duct tape over the pad and write on it: DO NOT MACHINE THIS SURFACE!!
(DO NOT TOUCH THIS SURFACE MIGHT BE EVEN MORE SURE!).. It's very important to future value of your car... :)
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And plan on everything costing more and taking longer then anticipated.
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Engine was done and came in smidge under the quoted cost by Baier and his shop. Was supposed to take between 3-4 weeks and that's exactly how long it took: 3 weeks. All the numbers are still present!
Here are a few of the highlights:
- Bored 0.030" with new pistons
- Polished crankshaft
- New cam
- Rebuilt/replaced heads, valves, bearings, etc.
- Rebuilt carb
- Replaced fuel pump, oil pump
- Break-in & dyno
Still waiting on my power steering pump to be rebuilt, but we should begin installing the engine in October. Pretty excited to get this in and see how it drives.
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Good to hear. Glad you are headed back in the right direction. Keep us posted. Always good to see another "ole gal" come back to life!
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I just wanted to close the loop on this thread. As of August 2023, my car is running like a top, but ...
I got it all put back together in October 2022 as the season was changing. We got it all put back in and everything connected. Short story: it ran like garbage and I limped it home (about 5 miles from my buddy's place). I had massive brake problems, timing problems, I realized I needed a stainless gasket on the carb, I ended up needed a shop to do some engine work, and I'm home free!
Long story:
We couldn't get enough angle on the engine to remove it without removing the distributor. Same for installing it. The engine was received having been broken in, so we tried to carefully mark the distributor's orientation. However, when we got everything back in place, it ran like absolute garbage. Neither of us had a timing gun and my buddy and I aren't that schooled in tuning an engine. Taking one out of a car ... sure. Tuning one up with timing, carb settings, etc. ... no.
I also had almost no brakes. It was very difficult to start the car.
So, I got it home. It would drive ... it was just surging and hated to idle and just obviously not in the correct timing.
First step was to fix the brakes. No sense tuning up the engine if I can't stop. Similarly, I can't even drive it safely to a shop, due to brakes.
I tore apart the drums and refurbed them. I have done lots of disc brake jobs, which are pathetically easy. I'd never done a drum brake job. Fortunately, these designs were used on about a zillion cars for a million years, so tons of good videos on YouTube. I got pretty good at stretching springs and holding the brake assembiles in place while tensioned everything.
I replaced the shoes, springs, and the wheel cylinders. Drained the old brake fluid, put new fluid in, bled it all out, and had excellent pressure at all 4 corners. And ... no brakes. No improvement at all. Stand on the pedal and barely can stop.
That brought me into late Oct and cold weather was here. I put it all away.
In May, I yank off the master cylinder and replace that. Bled everything out again, and again had excellent pressure at all 4 corners. And ... no brakes. Moderate improvement.
So, based on feedback here, I pulled the drums and sanded/roughed up all of the surfaces really well. And ... no brakes. Moderate improvement, but still not a car I'd drive around.
Frustrated, I leave it alone until July when a different buddy came up with a timing light, vacuum gage, etc. Got the tuning better, but it still just wouldn't run right. And, the carb seemed to not respond at all to the air/fuel setting screws. The vaccum was way off, too -- only pulling 12 - 14 in lbs.
Then I learned that the carb needed the stainless steel gasket. When the engine shop returned the engine, the carb was in a box with a standard felt-ish gasket. I know that I had removed a gasket stack of felt-metal-felt. But, I figured that some idiot installed that back in the 1980s and just installed the carb with the gasket the shop gave me. Huge mistake. I contacted the garage inquiring about the carb no seeming to respond. Shop immediately informed me that I needed the metal gasket in there. Great. So, I restored the gasket sandwich. That made a huge, huge difference, but my timing was still all screwed up.
This got it more driveable, the vacuum was up in the high teens, and my brakes were working suddenly. But, it was still way off and it would clank pretty loud when I turned if over cold. Because of this, I was scared I would cause internal damage.
At this point, I had it towed to a nearby shop. They did a complete overhaul of the distributor, timing, and adjusted the carb. Done and done.
As of mid-August, my car is driving like a champ. End of saga ... I hope.
Now, on to the next issue I'm facing (http://"https://www.camaros.net/threads/hot-air-blowing-from-vents-with-blower-off-1967-w-ac.489321/"), which is a constant stream of hot air, regardless of turning all HVAC controls off. Driving my car is basically like having the heater on the entire time with no way of stopping the air flow.
Thanks for all the help here on getting my car running again.