CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: rjprice on October 25, 2021, 05:18:00 PM
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I have a '69 L48 with what looks to be an original ZL2 air cleaner. The problem is the snorkel is missing. Are these date coded? Could not find any data on this. My engine is a T0409HB 300hp auto.
Should it have the flapper gizmo on the snorkel or just be smooth?
Does anyone sell the snorkel by itself?
Thanks.
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"Should it have the flapper gizmo on the snorkel or just be smooth?"
Yes. (* Thermac Air Valve) was part of the Emissions for the 350-300/TH350 Auto combination.)
"Does anyone sell the snorkel by itself?"
Not sure.
I have often wondered "IF" the snorkel portion was common to other air cleaners and could one source and Harvest a snorkel from say a closed Std air cleaner.
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Had the same situation many years ago. Removed a snorkel w/Thermactor from a 2bbl air cleaner, had it tack welded. Indetectable.
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Had the same situation many years ago. Removed a snorkel w/Thermactor from a 2bbl air cleaner, had it tack welded. Indetectable.
Exactly the answer I was looking for!
So before I re-snorkel, the air cleaner base is not date coded, right?
Is the Thermactor Air valve itself date coded?
Thanks,
Roger
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Had the same situation many years ago. Removed a snorkel w/Thermactor from a 2bbl air cleaner, had it tack welded. Indetectable.
Yep we (father and I) did it on a pace car back in the early 2000’s..
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I've done this more than several times, made "reproduction" Therm A/C cleaners for this application (L48 auto w/mandated ZL2 air cleaners like Pace Cars). You'll need a donor 2 or 4 bbl period air cleaner (use a 2 bbl if you don't want to sacrifice a 4 bbl), hopefully complete with the green 4bbl vacuum valve and the hose clips on the bottom of the air cleaner - you'll need these to make it cosmetically correct amd functional, too. I carefully remove the snorkel without damaging the flange, drill out the spot welds holding the clip, then spot weld the snorkel to the cleaner body after spot welding the clip in place (only way to spot weld the clip is to reach through the empty snorkel opening with the tongs and spot it twice to position it and keep it in place). Do it this way and, as William says, it's undetectable.
No, the base is not date coded (I have an NOS ZL2 cleaner in the box to base this on). Remember, early ZL2 cleaners had a flat bottom where the filter sits, a raised rib version was a second design and the first design to be reproduced. Flat bottom cans are in reproduction if you want to use one -
ZL2 manual or automatic air cleaners all used painted lids, not chrome -
Regards,
Steve
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I've done this more than several times, made "reproduction" Therm A/C cleaners for this application (L48 auto w/mandated ZL2 air cleaners like Pace Cars). You'll need a donor 2 or 4 bbl period air cleaner (use a 2 bbl if you don't want to sacrifice a 4 bbl), hopefully complete with the green 4bbl vacuum valve and the hose clips on the bottom of the air cleaner - you'll need these to make it cosmetically correct amd functional, too. I carefully remove the snorkel without damaging the flange, drill out the spot welds holding the clip, then spot weld the snorkel to the cleaner body after spot welding the clip in place (only way to spot weld the clip is to reach through the empty snorkel opening with the tongs and spot it twice to position it and keep it in place). Do it this way and, as William says, it's undetectable.
No, the base is not date coded (I have an NOS ZL2 cleaner in the box to base this on). Remember, early ZL2 cleaners had a flat bottom where the filter sits, a raised rib version was a second design and the first design to be reproduced. Flat bottom cans are in reproduction if you want to use one -
ZL2 manual or automatic air cleaners all used painted lids, not chrome -
Regards,
Steve
Very helpful. My base has the ridge. Any idea when the ridged base began? I have a early April engine and 4/14 production date for the car. Don't think mine is a repro as it has all the vacuum clips and fittings. It may be from a later car or a maybe a chevelle.
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There are several discussions and threads in the forum about this - I'll search through here when I have a moment. There are examples noted of the flat bottom up through about May if I remember correctly, but don't quote that yet.
Wonder why the snout is missing on yours ? There are generally 4 spot welds that hold it in place, some repops I've seen have 6-8 small ones. Share a pic of the mounting area if you think about - just curious as to why someone would remove it.
Regards,
Steve
Try this one, there are a couple of others in the archives:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14154.msg123981#msg123981
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With the snout removed, the air cleaner will get MORE air in situations when the cowl flap is closed.
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Pic of Warren Malkin's SCCA Z - evidently (according to the post) there was a GM part number for the ZL2 with no snorkle, it would add air flow when the flap was sealed. I just don't see it for street applications - I was wondering if fatigue or rust on the spot welds may have been the culprit. Running one for a long time without the heat riser tube could add to that (the spot welds I've seen over the years can be hit or miss. A pic will show if it was deliberate.
Regards,
Steve
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Took some pics of my air cleaner. I see 4 snorkle spot welds. Ridged, 90 degree tube, and what looks like forming wrinkles as others have called them. 70 Chevelle?
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A few more pictures. Getting better at resizing.
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- evidently (according to the post) there was a GM part number for the ZL2 with no snorkle….
Would that have been emission legal since removing the snorkel also removed the Thermactor?
Richard
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- evidently (according to the post) there was a GM part number for the ZL2 with no snorkle….
Would that have been emission legal since removing the snorkel also removed the Thermactor?
Manual shift cars didn't have the thermactor... so no reason it wouldn't have been legal. Although I'd love to see the evidence referenced that there was a PN for a ZL2 a/c without the snout... Steve? Can you provide the reference you cited?
Richard
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So as has been suggested, I can add a snorkel to this base for around $50 looking at ebay. Should I repair this one, even though it is not the right base for an early April car or should I look for another correct base or repro?
What would you do?
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Many of those air cleaner snouts were cut off by owners back in the day. The thinking was more air could be obtained. Looking at that small hole on the end, especially for V8's, it seemed logical.
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Had the same situation many years ago. Removed a snorkel w/Thermactor from a 2bbl air cleaner, had it tack welded. Indetectable.
Excellant suggestion - exactly what I did.
After 30 yrs, I finally saw a real GM unit at the GM Nats in Carlisle a few months back. As I composed myself, I asked how much.......$1500. I walked away in utter amazement - but I finally saw one. Glad I didn't need it.
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The thread I referenced above contains the statement about the GM part number for the "snorkel less" cleaner - I didn't author that tidbit. I would, however, take the OP's word for it. It was Warren Malkin's car, and I can bet it was a legit statement. It wouldn't affect emissions as it wasn't an emissions system component in my estimation (and no air injection on small block '69 automatics, anyway - just the PCV valve). Remeber, the ZL2 manual trans cleaners had an open snout, no valve.
The pics above place it as a good GM OE cleaner, the four spots appear to me to have fatigued off, doesn;t surprise me - I've had a few you could literally flex a time or two and break off from the can - very thin metal, very brittle after welding. I've seen burn throughs on the original welds, too - very easy to do as you have to time your weld to a couple of seconds - if your spot welder has a timer it's a plus. Your cleaner is a likely second design, for the ZL2 L48 applications with automatic, and is actually very scarce. It's worth restoring -
I had an NOS '70 cowl cleaner with the ThermA/C snorkel - they were meant for LS automatic cars with the Cowl Induction option, shorter snorkel with a deeper angle to the mount, used a flexible larger diameter heat tube from the exhaust manifold shield. Would not work on '69 small block applications, I'm certain (I teied to use it on my Pace Car, gave up and built my first one as I mentioned earlier).
One last tidbit or two - if you use a 2 bbl cleaner, the stub outlet under the ThermA/C valve is actually too long, you'll need to shoretn it a bit to get it to work with the heat tube. No bigee. Also, the four bbl Rochester used a sensor with a green plastic body, later replacements were black. Rochesters also had a double clip for the sensor hoses. Don't use a '68 snout - the hose bib is on the wrong side of the snout ('68 L48 heat shield and tube mount to the driver's side manifold, not passenger like the '69 ups. Just sayin -
Regards,
Steve
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Thanks for the good info! Going to re-snorkel the one I have and restore it.