CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: crossboss on January 13, 2021, 05:32:31 PM

Title: Restore or scrap?
Post by: crossboss on January 13, 2021, 05:32:31 PM
Boys,
Saw this on my other car site. Question: Restore or scrap this 1969 Z/28?

Part 1: https://youtu.be/astBEjZBTiQ
Part 2: https://youtu.be/LD6MHuQOzeg
Part 3: https://youtu.be/iC86qDxratA
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: 169INDY on January 13, 2021, 05:59:08 PM
It easily passes the three TESTS: of Economics, Desirability and Emotional.

While the economics might be "stressed" at Best the other two are slam dunks.


I would suppose we need not even debate the Emotional or Desirability aspects (* The open market clearly supports Both), but for the sake of discussion, "IF" it was a Turbo Thrift 230 cu/in three speed where would this car be?
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: GMAD_Van Nuys on January 13, 2021, 08:47:18 PM
I lost interest with this restoration when they said that this all original Camaro had the block in the trunk.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: bcmiller on January 13, 2021, 08:54:20 PM
Hard pass. 
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: crossboss on January 13, 2021, 09:14:21 PM
Restore or fix it. I've seen cars worse than this brought back better than original. My only worry, it may become a re-body with the tags.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: MO on January 13, 2021, 09:45:13 PM
I think the only salvation for it is a rebody and then it's a clone and no longer a real Z/28. I'm sure there is someone out there that will tackle it though. Some people just can't help themselves. And then unscrupulously sell it to someone with little knowledge of such things.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: cruiserofland on January 13, 2021, 10:01:21 PM
That brings up a really interesting question of what constitutes a "real" first-gen Z/28. Seems easier for body-on-frame cars, where to me if you replace the whole body on the original frame (like a CSX Shelby) than it's still the real deal. So how much of the body do you need to keep to consider it a real Z? Like leaving up one wall of a house so it's still a remodel...
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: KurtS on January 13, 2021, 10:24:32 PM
They should have put in on a frame machine first.....
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: MO on January 13, 2021, 11:17:44 PM
That brings up a really interesting question of what constitutes a "real" first-gen Z/28. Seems easier for body-on-frame cars, where to me if you replace the whole body on the original frame (like a CSX Shelby) than it's still the real deal. So how much of the body do you need to keep to consider it a real Z? Like leaving up one wall of a house so it's still a remodel...

It's really tough to say because there are so many variables. For unibody cars I think you need to maintain any original panels with vins or hidden vins. I don't think that would be possible with this Z.

I would think that would apply to cars with separate frames as well, but agree there seems to be more leniency there. 
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: ZLP955 on January 14, 2021, 04:16:54 AM
Sure it can be fixed, so if the owner can afford what it will cost to pay someone to do it, thatís up to them.
As long as they fully disclose the extent of the repairs when the time comes for a new owner.
Personally I would be more concerned about the karma of driving a car in which the driver may have died, or been very badly injured, in that crash. JMHO.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: 67conv6cyl on January 14, 2021, 01:45:31 PM
My only thought would be that if it has a salvage title ....(which it should) the value is greatly diminished. The cost of doing a correct restoration could be double the value of the car....so would restorer cut corners?
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: firstgenaddict on January 14, 2021, 03:02:25 PM
Kurt is correct the car should have been put on a frame machine and pulled first.

As an aside branded titles typically don't hurt higher end restored cars as much as one would think...
FWIW there are have been many severely rusted out cars which do not have branded titles WHICH have been rebuilt from what I would consider a much worse beginning.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: Kelley W King on January 14, 2021, 04:46:42 PM
For someone that the price of a running Z is out of reach that can do the work it would doable if the price was the sum of the good parts. The "original part" to me means nothing on a car like this. Even if original not much special about this one that I see. I agree that a good frame pull could have had some good results. I had a car hit hard in the rear that wrinkled the quarters and the top. Could not believe it after the guy pulled the frame.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: Sauron327 on January 14, 2021, 05:01:57 PM
I've been in the collision and resto business for decades, and fixed cars worse than this. They should have not sliced the a-pillar before yanking the car. If someone wants to fix it who cares? It is their T&M. Nobody is crying over cars rebuilt that are worth way more than a 69 Z. BS on a salvage title. Nearly every classic car out there has been rebuilt with repro body panels. If you want 100% original then go buy one that has never been hit, never had rust or rot or repainted in any way.

I'm doing a Z with original drivetrain except the tranny for someone. The car will receive a dashtop, firewall, floor and trunkpan, tailpanel, roof skin, one driprail, outer wheelhouses and two quarters. Some are NOS parts. According to some this car should be scrapped.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: MO on January 15, 2021, 01:08:46 AM
FWIW, I bought a car once with a salvage title and when I registered it in my name the new title did not say salvage; CA.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: crossboss on January 15, 2021, 01:40:31 AM
FWIW, I bought a car once with a salvage title and when I registered it in my name the new title did not say salvage; CA.




You got lucky...and the State of California just 'washed' the title for you!  lol
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: 67conv6cyl on January 15, 2021, 12:30:39 PM
I always thought that cars with salvage titles were worth less (even when fully restored correctly) because lenders wonít lend money on them....although I am not sure how that works in the collector car world. Does anybody know?
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: crossboss on January 15, 2021, 04:20:17 PM
I always thought that cars with salvage titles were worth less (even when fully restored correctly) because lenders wonít lend money on them....although I am not sure how that works in the collector car world. Does anybody know?




A salvaged title will damage the value. Also, some states wont allow you to register and insure them.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: camaronut on January 15, 2021, 04:27:56 PM
I hope this is gonna be a labor of love. 
I know a friend with a 69 Z that was bought in similar condition.
Let me tell ya, this ain't gonna be cheap.
Hope the 69 Camaro buyers market stays hot.

Again, this brings up the incredibly popular subject of a rebody vs. repair / replace.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: firstgenaddict on January 15, 2021, 05:19:46 PM
I always thought that cars with salvage titles were worth less (even when fully restored correctly) because lenders wonít lend money on them....although I am not sure how that works in the collector car world. Does anybody know?
I thought the same, bought a salvage titled VW passatt for $4500 car got totaled - I told the insurance company upon purchase and then AGAIN after the wreck that it had a salvage title... they did not care one bit, paid off at Kelly Blue Book... I near doubled my money on the car and the wife drove it for 2 years.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: cruiserofland on January 15, 2021, 05:44:14 PM
Fwiw I had no problem registering and insuring my Grandpaís Ď77 F100 here in California after it was totaled by insurance. Took an extra form to keep the original CA blue plates (normally you surrender plates and get new ones when it becomes a salvage title), but getting the salvage restored title was straightforward, just needed a VIN inspection at the DMV and Brake & Lamp inspection at a certified shop to check that the salvaged car is again safe to drive (headlights level, complete brake system inspection, turn signals, hazards, horn, reflectors, reverse lights). Itís as far as I know the only time California requires a thorough safety inspection of all those items.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: crossboss on January 15, 2021, 06:25:41 PM
Fwiw I had no problem registering and insuring my Grandpaís Ď77 F100 here in California after it was totaled by insurance. Took an extra form to keep the original CA blue plates (normally you surrender plates and get new ones when it becomes a salvage title), but getting the salvage restored title was straightforward, just needed a VIN inspection at the DMV and Brake & Lamp inspection at a certified shop to check that the salvaged car is again safe to drive (headlights level, complete brake system inspection, turn signals, hazards, horn, reflectors, reverse lights). Itís as far as I know the only time California requires a thorough safety inspection of all those items.




I had to go through this same situation many, many years ago when I bought my 1970 Boss 302 race car. It was never registered, and I had to have it smogged (that alone was not easy, with a race engine--the State of CA ref gave it an exemption), brake and light certified, and VIN check with the CA DMV. Eventually, I was issued a title. What a PITA.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: HawkX66 on January 21, 2021, 12:50:06 PM
I bought a 2017 Expedition Platinum totaled with a salvage title. Fixed it, applied for the paperwork and got it inspected. Received a title and insurance with no problem. VA.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: Kelley W King on January 21, 2021, 01:14:40 PM
Vehicles can be totaled and sold by the owner. No one makes them mark the title salvage.
Title: Re: Restore or scrap?
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 21, 2021, 01:45:16 PM
I think the insurance companys do that, after paying off the owner as a 'total', they sell it thru 'salvage auctions' and that's when they generally lose their original VIN's..