CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: Edgemontvillage on November 03, 2020, 12:53:22 AM
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Finally getting to the rear tail light harness install on my RS/Z project and noticed the tail light sockets on the American Autowire restoration harness are black plastic rather than brown on my original (along with other differences). I want to transfer the original sockets to the new harness and I've tried unsuccessfully to disconnect the 3 wires and was hoping someone has done this and can offer some guidance.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50561360266_419146dcdc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k2WbSN) (https://flic.kr/p/2k2WbSN) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50561360241_4272e380b3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k2WbSn) (https://flic.kr/p/2k2WbSn) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50561360251_59b5f2c2f3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k2WbSx) (https://flic.kr/p/2k2WbSx) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
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I sent my harnesses to AAW so I wouldn't have to go through this problem. There is also some major changes in the starter & headlight harness that had to be done. They even put my original tags back. They're building harnesses to the latest upgrades which isn't what I want for my car. Some of the connectors aren't made like the originals....Joe
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I think Chick made that modification in his 68Z build thread at Team Camaro?
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Correct, on the 2 positive bulb arched contacts there is a keeper "Tang" that must be 'released' to allow the contact to be withdrawn, I just "Failed" to extract one on my 68. I need to get a swap meet special 'spare' to autopsy and really figure this out.
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I think Chick made that modification in his 68Z build thread at Team Camaro?
He did, and found it: https://www.camaros.net/threads/time-for-another-68-z-28-to-be-restored.182584/page-16#post-1601716
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I think Chick made that modification in his 68Z build thread at Team Camaro?
He did, and found it: https://www.camaros.net/threads/time-for-another-68-z-28-to-be-restored.182584/page-16#post-1601716
Thanks Tim, I recently read Chick's post on this subject however couldn't duplicate his results, was hoping someone had more details. Chick's 68 Z is a non-RS and the 69 RS tail light sockets have a 3rd wire so I'm also looking for a tip on how to release that wire.
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Lloyd I am assuming the 3rd wire you speak of is the ground wire - black wire in your photo.
It is a spade type connector, the problem is that they corrode HORRIBLY... thus they appear to be a permanent connection, they are not.
Last one I did it took me forever to get the rear lamp sockets apart, I believe I soaked the entire thing in evaporust to get them apart which removed the zinc plating on the contacts - so I ended up having to replate them.
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Lloyd I am assuming the 3rd wire you speak of is the ground wire - black wire in your photo.
It is a spade type connector, the problem is that they corrode HORRIBLY... thus they appear to be a permanent connection, they are not.
Last one I did it took me forever to get the rear lamp sockets apart, I believe I soaked the entire thing in evaporust to get them apart which removed the zinc plating on the contacts - so I ended up having to replate them.
Thanks James, I'm not sure if your post has provided hope or contributed to my despair. I haven't noted any corrosion on the connectors so I remain hopeful they will release without a fight however I'm still seeking tips on how they can be removed.
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I sent my harnesses to AAW so I wouldn't have to go through this problem. There is also some major changes in the starter & headlight harness that had to be done. They even put my original tags back. They're building harnesses to the latest upgrades which isn't what I want for my car. Some of the connectors aren't made like the originals....Joe
In hindsight sending your original wiring to AAW was a brilliant plan, let them sweat transferring the connectors and sockets . Will likely do the same on the next project!
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I sent my harnesses to AAW so I wouldn't have to go through this problem. There is also some major changes in the starter & headlight harness that had to be done. They even put my original tags back. They're building harnesses to the latest upgrades which isn't what I want for my car. Some of the connectors aren't made like the originals....Joe
In hindsight sending your original wiring to AAW was a brilliant plan, let them sweat transferring the connectors and sockets . Will likely do the same on the next project!
It's probably a walk in the park for them.....Joe
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69's have three wires due to the fact that they have plastic tail lamp housings unlike 67-68 which have metal housings providing the ground.
I just took a couple apart.
there is a catch on the female half of the spade seen
HERE
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AGnFfTh2eSrA6_C1n1SOG_nm_5dimiqa8t6b1tjvoxJaeNCgKTVICTZaxBiBv2xur-_qtPpYly1TmAcIdcnGZTF5RPKkR1qcvtI6FQGFi8s_4p3fN0w0ZScpHz8m-8IZduygh2xR8BtZXSbsaYyRDI1fVjxwh1Z2LZb1itFz89QxDx3idzjNXuz0ASE750KhepuIErplxVY41F2ZLqYIuRyubBD5PiBhbhyX_p6dEm5r7-ZmI4DdSSFcAAmXGGKVVehTd17ij0FFZ323Z6sUl2iPBgZO53qg1IIFl0g2hmtuFvk8p1WOD_3ZHV3GrSypV4sIsjK4w5sJXCHhTsM-hQF1iFH8hhmBfUMuePYBxfwqJMAhrxCiwR8xy0IFx5uFNjNe6Kx20ZA5LsW1juXVJQUA808ILLD67AvgBqN6JraJtU8G6v_-CilCrW3nW4QsJlQ35V8kj5aamQ6hDayMx350PbFJUThnh1qEp4FgkFVOLDClo7f1kWeZepFVHl5EgtY9wkYIQMZjjxR7COziyvAORtsaKSHrEmAQJU15NiGMZYDns46LhjJaD65u0ZnYI5vvitNfx8fzXQGN2hbSnt9bUctyngt17ojGnQDE4lo1J0od9h8oaMEG5OtTJJRzfwE2LB6HLC2GjbzL5v36wHxg5_7XJkZS-ADNEZzgZTOtTa0pGXIEAVQc7AbrLA=w664-h884-no?authuser=0)
You have to slide down the inside of the ground connection and depress the spring "tongue" which has the lock.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fezULTJHpqSY7YDrYZzUt4uvs2svF3H9RxLRBzZ4lQROPwI-0Ttfagtg-fvpDC2T2gxo-SNoiTYwSYqXTjajYRUg_ooJaqrUVe6riwmLYcSKR8vBBuO5zCbAN-pJ5rbGd3FeDr6KyqfJzbwIL74RRzg05wvk1h3uETxZ0yH-kKr05b30TdwRi32r84lFoLAn5z9inaue3zfaDTfsVRDoKlWhoEAPNvNmbFRw8K4pFNhaSXzqtnZdApTJANdEGdsNXOiSBWyw2HcrXOUrSHPwJoWIvwJzZWjZU9863sy3sZGnhNOBLLhkoJ-k3CrKvW9_-nGPa74a8ByXI5ChvcV0X_Jyv-Q9_TYczLS6L89wREdtBFQPazxc_2OHEQkVB1ZJ4Uzlq9EUMAx3gZN57qmA6ZhOfruE7J9Stos0vajreS-8_1HPi_mvALjnGy1Ub4sWNJ4ojL_1EqUbl83keRHzo3IRggwp5gliqwsdyYCFcCiJqI7h0mYPSuRx7ws9GSaTeScJ2idU43GBnUGNGaope6Midi0CviI4ZMbKrUd25Ll7zYCeVxqwR3duleM_7QNSvZO3cjJ3ibUgsp-HhofqVJZx_H4dK8oVOI15WFLW8Bt4l2rZ7OH4aFX41Apx0BuMTCptbosffqXj5NyQHA6w8Qo4O1fYDMkm80SpFNpkw9t2rM1Tgn19rBLUfPnfAg=w664-h884-no?authuser=0)
And press the "tongue" with the tip of a screwdriver or a dental pick, this will allow the ground to come off...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zw1gUzMZrjOeXoexO2RQPG6BzqZiTIuVOJtjG3KJJRGMTV6ZEZ1vK6swlWF1bmHuWbRxj-1jyhIhIHH7ap2eXIhogA3_-GwO3tvbnczz7p_ydkdUFp0EWIvj5UlTo_lNKYJEcWlKjCHLQfBh0M4gJup51FmpyC0qsb50P6i2ycS0ZbXc-wR3Dow41snA8LQlkQ5vZ_eC5ggEMSmFg07Kl_5l-KK0XFM95OTtyASCT5g4vgigs612m-5etyOf44FVh7ndPA56AjirsmdMdFaIBbb-2xAGmKHnD-dtC5TSAgTnepnsHTVmuRdEfpgG9nKmS5N0K-ekvWxdH7XZobskoCJ4bTVSn6zlBrWzpqZfj0qnVOa81zuKOdROlG3DSEfVh6IQcBujgGHrUQxr5yaHdxkgs5jIffGgykmTOs1H-qoG5zzMLlJ-Yb7cXJutZpoLKDiKyMt69QMRDYeODbuRY0gWoB_KFrERV2M1wBbpia8M6I56oFRm86eVqJ85n8dYtukWF34HhK5cQ4jOdcqmnfkUcTp42p7UGrTZjrdqYmXlexGR_hkDn6c_CA0RYEjZ01ckqiJIh7PrpIVhfRAh81isRmwXURJhLcYNvp7adw2m1iCdDrzGOv5gWSjNWSNIjvsMh3F1jcT2r0PRP5Fre_87uaUZvWTjLec6eH_aEcjgKKzU7py5G95x5l8gEw=w664-h884-no?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kh_9r3rEQRKLFKPWvUjl20ZMqFzE4ZvmdJ69sm48pih3b7DQ4uLS3D5uP1J7EGZxOfV-ySyNY-1sV8UBytclwlZdaz8oGi-6Ea64qX2NS7Nw5WlzOLJy9p6wKHORABU4X1tRbrHI7RiK417Jw0VeGBWh9Bta4BNGTLriXmPaKb6HGPl-8CTNPFeAPPYliKLXRQFYhqXXnJTL4ED6l_Q9DWk1QOFC1fupq0uElWfldY_fNxUyL33m_lv7sgSCzYpkXEVnpriPXLGdrlEWRIOvugHiusA7p6_NZuBMZlFnGmUfn7Jb0Shm_mUtf8uwN4BQ4iSzmNDgUWXSs3RqwQx8A1A3G1VnUOG0n1P7yh2-VvnZFvyouCe2Yl86gNr-RKYqjOtrVl_-03X-nq42y0wliANcZbAygii62fgjva-tyiFjIIS_IznI6ENKtH-Y2wWXAoWlNaoRAvALPhgp8rqNkpkGJ74ndJHuRjvU8Yj6bydjWxDvT4wM500VWfHaGl2qtecFgDrP0GgF2WHC6LoGnv6m61yx0MgoOF44jfQz0kppOE3pJ0WT08MoZMMi0xmCFZL4YRQRSS4FS_M-zeO3co7769DbNnCFQsxqpe5Cc5yf-L3hcow9OGV4TXccCFxHCyVBip8PcIlIHpUfmM5JLGCwcXaRAv5wlWKMfbRBOUon0KzRy55bl0yJPZM0gw=w664-h884-no?authuser=0)
The other connection is removed by sliding the removal tool down the inside from the front- there is a recessed slot- then after the tang is depressed the two spring connections for the bottom of the bulb will slide out the back.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fife/ABSRlIoIY5i8qhUnC9_RTdJ6LcdC9eITlCHIUDIzRBiX8obDAe9mngL0bCVNWxXFW4zQk7_3r94NiPLaMvUNv6tN5fpcGl32tkYObFHN6veKyveweuUeVVGhoP6nKjLb_EoLvlsqkUVIoTpOQ4KC9HVgmKjcNUWYrUjD-nCG8cnZevZPenRiNJLVCbgs05FEgPkUCJoXhlafc0cM8sYNO5aKIoLVOXms919EQWUOo-TVZC8zbDs2Ypw2zo7k0INxFNAaDciFl2MyVHy0F4TZI_v81PWbwxzhcvYZwKTVXLPR7H9QAHocHGL7-mn_-Cj7VA3dGf8FL7QlDhMsT7wD6tIDKO3pso6A7GP-t9bFGnmHunGYwbnijHOmQsObQ03GNmcdJvXSjdrM2ZRTcPKyx1jctxGnnHXwMiAxTyTW2WtsqihjrvKnTJSFT8uH2OAjmtt7hjzEo1TZvKNe-Cp0kzriu5I4z97R5CiKFozulTVOo6Zua_3tUrmc6eOyE5SKPk8RpLF8HxuksZSyzJtZqsCi3G0cO1uk6WtVWra8EE-4i-iGLUixfuiFejWM8FqRdisU7BtpIclbS_hOrWH7Vfr0OdjO41eBi1JTn0HWKIT4RUYUx_sHhIk2hrnrZsu-FAh_XrV31aiUQR7r3Wdmcukf6Z7Y1x598Dk6HguYvDT6VigxXCL-ovGBnkrbHulelLazFm1RlxaVaNNRwmTeF0CdaaXpScUC_IsGvwVl1w=s1032-w1032-h774-no?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LoGuHA7Zn2E1EkDlBXnPxQZ0cDtDduPnExTMKEYuXATQrl_JxFQKvMHF16dU-SdjyZieoWG2cCocYx9uzdjGjagZcWXNsM6A-16Y4ovOWtdddEpiHcTC39v2ifvseDfPjtxKQJE0wN9SFL7b7jrXA9x4AxaBXwYLiE8-BW_cDG5sXdBlg3-O_GAeb5lAB8DHH9QqyTBGvXDjkmx5M4uEq-CppCrLW_8WWCLLo_QXl51TNhGskV2OID9nQWCqDOGIZyAvM-9gV5OOHhm6p-_eMsb7xHwuuPhnXcjC06tIC23y72Oeo5Jul9XP7ftqgNnU5XVmq3UObt-yu3ByjFApHIzE6TB6EJL7Bj1I678XJCeDBtsVxCa-RoPJyAE8JL-nx5AHZp9ZgVlhbGmXKw_Ege88rrhL_p2VnIRQqBeRckiqEOIrr4L1J6TTXPlTFlUWk-rqTOtCzN307q6qU1pzUzt_0Mzq-J7ma7FJvvX-bcgzmxyocyCdsyPymGqK3T7WunNE29hcR8-Ti3ZhzZCgnLAVLuu_RYxOnJo0hlxfdgkgHm6YaajPKchyvzFkfMXEumnEjrs1cxVkEXPq0B1RdCkHGO526_jXejLPDA4OVP0GMuPsI_ZDmq1kuJDQ5EsBNfLBgGNiIZrXM4Po8TLbOBZ97qCovOw12IeflYcMb8RPRut_BqJfVoyXhlwLHw=w1032-h774-no?authuser=0)
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I sent my harnesses to AAW so I wouldn't have to go through this problem. There is also some major changes in the starter & headlight harness that had to be done. They even put my original tags back. They're building harnesses to the latest upgrades which isn't what I want for my car. Some of the connectors aren't made like the originals....Joe
In hindsight sending your original wiring to AAW was a brilliant plan, let them sweat transferring the connectors and sockets . Will likely do the same on the next project!
Yes Lloyd they are not easy to take apart and it took me several attempts.
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Thanks to everyone who responded to the thread. For future reference I thought I'd provide some additional information on the process for the benefit of members who want to perform this tail light socket swap in future. It's a slow, frustrating and time consuming process however it can be done.
Improvising is possible when it comes to terminal removal tools however sometimes proven, engineered, commercially available tools can save some time and reduce the risk of damage. Snap-on makes a terminal tool set consisting of 6 tools (PN# TT600) which I used 4 of them frequently. The one I found most useful for releasing the flat tab on the contact terminals was the TT600-5.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50580263307_e7cd77f97f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4B56i) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4B56i) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
James (firstgenaddict) sent me some photos of the terminal removal process which I found very useful (and I'm re-posting here)...and there is no substitute for experience. The two contact terminals inside the tail light socket housing have a flat tab and a spade (shaped) tab as shown below, to release each contact terminal from the socket housing requires lifting the flat tab only followed by pulling the connector wire to remove it from the housing. The spade connector inserts into a molded slot in the housing as well however is used for locating the connector only and is not locked in place. Each flat tab is locked in a slot molded into the center divider as shown. A thin, flat terminal tool is inserted against the divider from the wire feed side (not the bulb side) and the flat tab is lifted (and bent slightly upward, away from the divider) to release it. The metal locking ring is NOT removed and all terminals are removed (and inserted) from the top / wire feed side of the socket housing. Removal of the grounding terminal connector follows below.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50580229706_511e29abdb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4AU6Y) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4AU6Y) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50580215086_292117ed81_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4APKU) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4APKU) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
A thin, flat tool is inserted between the plastic center divider and the flat locking tab from the wire feed side (bulb side shown) to release the bulb terminal connector
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50579536433_c811df44d4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4xm1Z) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4xm1Z) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
I found removing the grounding terminal was the most difficult, for me anyway. The grounding terminal connector is locked in place by a metal barb that inserts into a flat tab molded into the socket housing. Although some have had success releasing the grounding terminal by inserting a flat tool as shown between the tab and connector to release the barb I resorted to un-bending the connector where it wraps around each edge of the molded tab to loosen it enough where the barb lock would release.
Grounding terminal connector showing locking metal barb and wrap around edges
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50579580198_27d5e1cc55_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4xz2y) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4xz2y) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
Flat metal tab molded into socket housing that grounding terminal connects to (slips onto)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50580279761_670135c22e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4B9YZ) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4B9YZ) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
The original socket housing, detailed and ready for the new wiring harness
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50579403993_97f266d242_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4wEDx) (https://flic.kr/p/2k4wEDx) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
I hope this additional information helps.
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Stellar SHARE! Both of you
Thanks!
I was practicing on a spare socket & making NO progress.
After viewing you photos total Time 4 sec & Pittsburg harbor freight pic.
Done.
Nice you can swap sockets or re-arch contact for better tailight performance.
THanks
Jim
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Stellar SHARE! Both of you
Thanks!
I was practicing on a spare socket & making NO progress.
After viewing you photos total Time 4 sec & Pittsburg harbor freight pic.
Done.
Nice you can swap sockets or re-arch contact for better tailight performance.
THanks
Jim
Well done Jim, glad you found the post useful. 4 sec...that's got to be a record!
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Post Script - I've observed (anecdotally) from original cars I photographed at MCACN 2019 Vintage Certification that Norwood (possibly Van Nuys too) used brown plastic tail light bulb sockets on Rally Sport equipped cars and white on non-Rally Sport. These are not referenced in the AIM as there were installed by Fisher and there are no PN #s embossed on the sockets to verify if they differ.
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Brown was used on stop & tail (1157) on both cars. White was used on non r/s cars for back up (1156) & rear running light (67)….Joe