CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: 69RALLYSPORTZ28 on March 12, 2020, 12:25:52 AM
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Does anyone have pictures of an engine pad of a Tonawanda cast block 3932388 with an April assembly date close to V0425DZ?
I would like to compare the font to an engine that is for sale.
Appears to have been decked once and maybe twice because the original stamping is very very faint except the Z which appears to still have some depth to the stamping.
There does not appear to be a VIN on the engine pad nor on the rough casting surface above the oil filter.
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My 388 Z11 stamp is as close as I can get. 03/12, 03D build on the car. Look at the "2" -
Regards,
Steve
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Tonawanda DZ suffix?
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Tonawanda DZ suffix?
Not possible (from the factory) ... The pad even appears to be sanded in addition to the various machine marks... ugh...
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Tonawanda DZ suffix?
Not possible (from the factory) ... The pad even appears to be sanded in addition to the various machine marks... ugh...
Yup, Flint only.
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May have been mis information or typo from OP, it’s a Flint pad by the V. A better picture is needed, I think I have a pic of a known original, will check and re post.
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May have been mis information or typo from OP, it’s a Flint pad by the V. A better picture is needed, I think I have a pic of a known original, will check and re post.
That's possible since the OP didn't include a photo of the casting nos, but ...restampers don't always pay attention to the *details*....
PS. If you can't see the stamping along with factory broach marks (and preferably a little 'age'), then the likelihood of a restamp should always be suspected!
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Tough to judge what is left of that stamping.
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That's an original stamp.
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That's an original stamp.
Do you still contend that if the casting is from Tonawonda plant?
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Tough to judge what is left of that stamping.
May have been mis information or typo from OP, it’s a Flint pad by the V. A better picture is needed, I think I have a pic of a known original, will check and re post.
That's possible since the OP didn't include a photo of the casting nos, but ...restampers don't always pay attention to the *details*....
PS. If you can't see the stamping along with factory broach marks (and preferably a little 'age'), then the likelihood of a restamp should always be suspected!
Thank You, That's so very true. I have seen lots of re stamps in the last 40 years working in the Corvette Trade, some very very good, some just plain laughable they are so bad, but I try not to offer my opinion, but leave it to the experts. It would be nice if they would all have factory broach marks, but lets face it so many were blown up years ago or changed under warranty, that many are questionable because of decking, and even worse sanding by someone looking for numbers, or are they trying to hide stuff?
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There have been several examples I can think of where a legit-looking DZ stamp has been found on a block without the oil gallery pipe plug. But as pictured, the 'V' prefix to a genuine stamp means it was machined and assembled at Flint, not Tonawanda.
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There were castings swapped between foundries in order to ensure both could machine at either, that being said if it was a solid lifter engine no matter where the block was cast the engine was machined in FLINT (which means it HAS TO HAVE the front oil galley plug, it was a necessity due to the machining equipment at FLINT) and assembled in Flint so it would have a V0000DZ assembly code. There were limited numbers of castings and it would only so happen that a DZ was being assembled and a Tonawanda casting would be in the rotation... it would not have a T0000DZ -SB solid lifter engines were not built at Tonawanda.
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So you guys are saying that there are (you've seen?) legitimate documented Z28 engines cast in Tonawanda (although machined/assembled in Flint of course)...? Other than for 'test' purposes, or a problem at one of the foundries, it's difficult for me to believe that raw castings were routinely (or even rarely) passed between the foundries...? I'd love to see/hear some proof of that happening if it did... and I will modify my view.
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It would be great if the OP of this block stamp provide additional information/ pictures of block including casting number & date as well as if block has 1/4” plug in front, although that can be tapped into Tonawanda blocks.
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There have been several examples I can think of where a legit-looking DZ stamp has been found on a block without the oil gallery pipe plug. But as pictured, the 'V' prefix to a genuine stamp means it was machined and assembled at Flint, not Tonawanda.
Yes, IF one always believes the stamping... :)
But.. In the 'Corvette World' there are people who can supposedly 'replicate' the factory broach marks, and perfectly restamp an engine using the factory gang holders and stamps; I haven't seen these but that's what I'm told. (So I am from MISSOURI when it comes to engine stamps for more desirable cars!)..
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So you guys are saying that there are (you've seen?) legitimate documented Z28 engines cast in Tonawanda (although machined/assembled in Flint of course)...? Other than for 'test' purposes, or a problem at one of the foundries, it's difficult for me to believe that raw castings were routinely (or even rarely) passed between the foundries...? I'd love to see/hear some proof of that happening if it did... and I will modify my view.
I'm know I'm old, etc. and my memory is suspect. For some reason, I think I remember reading something about Tonawanda shipping blocks to Flint at one point for reasons I cannot recall. Production problems maybe, or ? Maybe I dreamed that. ???
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Blocks were generally not swapped between the plants. But there is a known shortage when 388 blocks were sent to Flint.
It's a real block.
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We discussed this block-exchange program here several years ago - it was done occasionally to ensure that neither plant had made any machining changes that would compromise the Service requirement that either Flint or Tonawanda blocks were interchangeable and would accept the same common replacement parts in the field. It's theoretically possible (but HIGHLY unlikely) that one of those Tonawanda-supplied interchangeability audit blocks could wind up built as a DZ engine, including drilling/tapping for and installing the 1/8" NPT oil gallery plug above the timing cover.
I'd need a whole bunch more evidence before I'd believe that Flint V-8 built a DZ engine, without the oil gallery plug, on a Tonawanda block; too many ways to fake just about anything.
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Here's another example of a 388 block used for a genuine DZ: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=15638