CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Originality => Topic started by: Edgemontvillage on October 23, 2019, 04:28:23 PM

Title: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on October 23, 2019, 04:28:23 PM
Looking for input on the correct Saginaw power steering return hose and clamps used in 1969. I have two examples of period-original hoses. When compared it appears the script on both hoses read "P.S. Return DDD-Y" where, I'm assuming, DDD represents the Julian date and the Y is the year of manufacture. If that assumption is correct the examples below would appear to be dated April 21, 1970 and August 25, 1970. Although not Gen1 hoses I was told the script would be the same for 1969? The power steering box side hose fitting was attached to one of the hoses with a pinch clamp which is correct for Gen2 Camaros for both ends of the return hose. Gen1s used Wittek screw clamps or possibly one Wittek screw clamp and one pinch clamp? Input would be appreciated.

Original PS return hose dated April 21, 1970
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48926929538_153fe172df_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxviyE) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxviyE) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Another example apparently dated August 25, 1970
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48947927081_1387efdec5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hzmVpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hzmVpg)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

PS Box side fitting with pinch clamp
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48926925498_cd04b9cd24_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxvhn1) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxvhn1)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48927457321_ee2624432a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxy1sn) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxy1sn)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48926925758_07ae12d666_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxvhru) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxvhru)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Original Wittek PS return hose screw clamps
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48926925768_ffd9a36cfb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxvhrE) (https://flic.kr/p/2hxvhrE)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)


Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on October 28, 2019, 03:12:47 AM
Would sure like some input on this subject. Anyone with original PS?
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on November 02, 2019, 02:34:07 PM
2 weeks and over 170 views with no replies - I'm starting to lose faith here!
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: KurtS on November 03, 2019, 03:09:09 AM
Not original on my car.
I have an old take-off, but I'll have to check if it has hoses, can't recall.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: ko-lek-tor on November 03, 2019, 02:16:27 PM
Lloyd, will be glad to look at mine and give you what I have, information wise. I am not in the country at this time or since you asked. Perhaps later this week you can get the faith back when I get home? Adios amigo
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on November 03, 2019, 02:30:08 PM
Lloyd, will be glad to look at mine and give you what I have, information wise. I am not in the country at this time or since you asked. Perhaps later this week you can get the faith back when I get home? Adios amigo

Thanks Bentley - much appreciated and safe travels.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Hans L on November 03, 2019, 03:53:40 PM
Sorry, just checked mine and while the PS belt was original, someone over the years replaced the original clamp with conventional aftermarket clamp.   Pretty sure the hoses were original - will need to dig through some boxes to find them.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Hans L on November 03, 2019, 06:47:31 PM
Lloyd -

Good news - I was able to quickly locate the power steering hoses and clamps and they appear original, including the clamp.    Bad news is now I'll have to clean-up the original clamp, remove the repro, and install this correct clamp!   It does appear the clamp I have differs from the pinch clamp but compares will with the others you show. 

Pretty sure everything is factory original.  The heater hoses and power steering belt are factory installed originals, so I'm pretty sure the power steering hoses are as well.    04B Van Nuys built '69 RS Z.

And I'm not sure why the images don't scale to the page size anymore.  Appears you'll need to scroll over to see the details. 


Low Pressure Power Steering Hose Clamp:

(https://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Camaro%20Components/Power%20Steering%20Pump%20and%20Hoses/DSC_3195_zpsjnonpedx.jpg) (https://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Camaro%20Components/Power%20Steering%20Pump%20and%20Hoses/DSC_3195_zpsjnonpedx.jpg.html)

Low Pressure Power Steering Hose Markings:

(https://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Camaro%20Components/Power%20Steering%20Pump%20and%20Hoses/DSC_3194-2_zpsfct3tstc.jpg) (https://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Camaro%20Components/Power%20Steering%20Pump%20and%20Hoses/DSC_3194-2_zpsfct3tstc.jpg.html)

For Reference, High Pressure Power Steering Hose Markings:   Best I can tell:  "P.S. Return       29  9"

(https://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Camaro%20Components/Power%20Steering%20Pump%20and%20Hoses/DSC_3189-2_zpspwx4tm8t.jpg) (https://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Camaro%20Components/Power%20Steering%20Pump%20and%20Hoses/DSC_3189-2_zpspwx4tm8t.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on November 03, 2019, 08:38:43 PM
Hans, thanks for posting. The script on your original return hose appears to match the style, color and other details of the later dated examples I posted. The date stamp (29 - 9 or January 29) seems early vs the production dates of other parts typical for a 3rd week of April LA built car. Possibly these hoses were batch produced? The Wittek screw clamp is the same as the ones in my photo including the large “2” beside the manufacturer’s identification stamp. I don’t think the high pressure hose in your photo is original as it is uses a later double-crimp fitting?
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Hans L on November 04, 2019, 12:05:11 AM
Yes, not sure on the high pressure hose.   I checked an old picture from my '69 Chevelle before I restored it and it had the same style high pressure line crimping.  That pic was from 1989.  The AC lines on the Chevelle have the same style crimping as well.   I really don't know what an original looks like.   And yes, seems the low pressure line seems a little early, but would seem weird someone would replace it with an even older one!   
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on November 04, 2019, 03:46:08 AM
Thanks for contributing Hans, looking forward to hearing from other members as well to add to the discussion.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on November 04, 2019, 03:06:20 PM
Yes, not sure on the high pressure hose.   I checked an old picture from my '69 Chevelle before I restored it and it had the same style high pressure line crimping.  That pic was from 1989.  The AC lines on the Chevelle have the same style crimping as well.   I really don't know what an original looks like.   And yes, seems the low pressure line seems a little early, but would seem weird someone would replace it with an even older one!   

Hans, with minor photo editing here's another view of your return hose script:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49007746698_e198f0b643_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hEDvFY) (https://flic.kr/p/2hEDvFY)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Hans L on November 04, 2019, 06:23:24 PM
Thanks!   Before I posted I ran them through Adobe Lightroom as well to try to draw out as much of the contrasting colors as  I could as they are barely visible on the originals - so they've gone through post-post processing!  Ha!  If you want a high-rez original, let me know and I'll send them separately. 
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on November 04, 2019, 07:39:58 PM
Thanks for the offer Hans, will let you know.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: ko-lek-tor on November 07, 2019, 12:38:33 AM
I am stateside now, after a wonderful trip. I dug out the hose off my car, the 12B Norwood X22. The writing was so faint, I could not get a good picture. The more I clean the hose the less I can read, so, somewhat difficult now to show. What I can confirm is this, like examples shown, mine says, “P.S.RETURN 291-8 []” (square box).
What I can deduce is that is the Julian date. Both ends had the same screw clamps, “Wittek Chicago USA 2”, with serrations like the ones pictured. I have several other hoses I can check, one off a feb 69 6 cyl and one off a 70 I will look at later when time allows. I have several of those clamps, maybe 2 dozen, iir, I will look closer for a date. I did not see one.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on November 07, 2019, 01:12:06 AM
Thanks for posting Bentley! With 4 data points I'd conclude the numbers on the return hose are a date code in the DDD - Y format. For your 12B Norwood X22, the PS return hose date of 291 - 8 or October 17, 1968 is about 60 days prior to the build date. Thanks also for confirming use of Wittek 2 style screw clamps on both ends of the return hose.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: 70z28lt1 on November 08, 2019, 05:23:30 PM
Not an expert on these but most of the original high pressure hoses I have seen have one long crimp, not the two closely spaced crimps that was on yours.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on November 09, 2019, 03:45:31 PM
Not an expert on these but most of the original high pressure hoses I have seen have one long crimp, not the two closely spaced crimps that was on yours.


Thanks for posting, the single crimp style would seem to be period correct. Would you post a photo of the writing/script on the high pressure hose please?
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: ko-lek-tor on November 10, 2019, 01:12:17 PM
I’ll try and get you some pics of H.P. Hose too
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Petes L48 on November 10, 2019, 03:21:12 PM
You probably already know this, but if replicating factory hoses they should also have that foam rubber sleeve as seen in 70Z28LT1's picture.  I'm not sure if the later replacements had that detail.  A few older PS hoses threads from here:

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14296.msg125773#msg125773

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14327.msg128013#msg128013

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3980.msg25821#msg25821

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=6794.msg44533#msg44533
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: 70z28lt1 on November 11, 2019, 06:38:31 PM
I’ll try and get you some pics of H.P. Hose too

I'll have to dig it out if I can remember where it is.  :-[

Maybe its in the bathroom or kitchen under the sink.  So many parts around the house. ;D
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: 70z28lt1 on November 12, 2019, 12:46:08 AM
Dug out my hoses and the high pressure hose markings are basically illegible.  There's an "A G04279" which is the date code and that's about it.
The low pressure return hose is marked "P.S. Return  96-0 3931898 CC"

Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on November 12, 2019, 04:09:50 AM
Dug out my hoses and the high pressure hose markings are basically illegible.  There's an "A G04279" which is the date code and that's about it.
The low pressure return hose is marked "P.S. Return  96-0 3931898 CC"

It would be great if you would add a photo.


Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: 70z28lt1 on November 12, 2019, 11:20:25 AM
Here you go
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 02, 2019, 03:38:59 PM
Here you go

Thanks for posting, the return hose script and date code scheme is the consistent with the hoses that I have. For the high pressure hose, how often does the script repeat, in other words what distance do you measure between the script on the high pressure hose? Also would you measure the height of the letters? Thanks.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: 70z28lt1 on December 05, 2019, 11:26:32 PM
The script repeats either every 6 inches or possibility of 3 inches.  On mine, there is no printing at the 3 inch point, but they may have been rubbed away.  The foam wrap is at the 3 inch place.

The characters are 0.25 high, 0.125 wide and on a center-to-center spacing of 0.187.

Thinking of refreshing the stamps.  Any idea who makes the stamps?  Hobby Lobby or Michael's Aart supply?
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: 69Z28-RS on December 06, 2019, 03:08:29 PM
...
Thinking of refreshing the stamps.  ...?

IMO, that's the worst thing you could possibly do to an original marking on an original part.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: KurtS on December 06, 2019, 07:39:19 PM
Agreed. :)
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 07, 2019, 12:02:50 AM
The (return) hoses I have are dated 1970 and well past their service life. My plan is to have stencils made so I can replicate the hose markings (font/date scheme/repeats) on new hoses using correct dates for my project. I hope also to establish a knowledge thread for future reference. The shop I use for stencils shut down so I need to find a new one.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: David K on October 03, 2023, 04:44:04 AM
Thanks Lloyd and Hans. I had to change my return hose due to a leak. Wiped it down, looks like original and the clamps as well. My 68 is an 11E 6 cylinder, so I took pictures to share.
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: David K on October 03, 2023, 04:46:39 AM
More
Title: Re: Power Steering Return Hose Script and Clamps
Post by: David K on October 03, 2023, 04:52:10 AM
Reads as such on the hose