CRG Discussion Forum

Model Specific Discussions => Trans-Am Camaros => Topic started by: 69Z28-RS on May 10, 2019, 01:09:18 PM

Title: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 10, 2019, 01:09:18 PM
I have a set of the 15x8.5 TA70 magnesium wheels which were ran on R.A.C.E. trans am camaro in the '69-73 time frame.  They haven't been used since the mid'70's.  (To my knowledge the last time they were used was on a '73 Camaro IMSA car during an IMSA GT race at Talledega; it was raining heavily and Bob ran them the whole race with rain tires (and came in 3rd)! 

Thewheels are good, no cracks/welds/etc, but the old paint is flaking off and the wheels are 'crusty' as magnesium gets.   There's a 'new' powder coating shop near me that told me they will clean them (by water/media blasting) and powder coat them in black or dark gray for $100 each.  It sounds like a great deal to me to make these wheels 'look new', but I'm unfamiliar with powder coating magnesium.   Do any of you older 'trans am' guys know?

Gary
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: crossboss on May 10, 2019, 03:34:43 PM
I have asked your question to some of my older Trans-Am experts. Hopefully they will chime in.
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: crossboss on May 10, 2019, 04:19:32 PM
I got your answers…and very quickly!

 "I powder coat all the time Magnesium wheels , and for me I think it's the best way to go.
after sand media blasting first a lay some powdercoating primer ,and after that the final color in powder coating."
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: crossboss on May 10, 2019, 04:49:37 PM
More info from another:

"I agree that it's a good way to refinish and preserve them but:

-any cracks? might have them X-ray'd if they were truly in all out competition 45 years ago...
-powdercoater should know about outgassing issues of magnesium. wheel has to be pre-heated/baked to release...?something/nitrogen/whatever? gases.
-then powdercoat


any method that seals the magnesium from the elements is good.
If you P/C before perfroming the outgas process (pre-bake), it'l eventuually come out and ruing an otherwise good finish.

It costs MORE to abrasively strip powdercoating (vs paint) to correct an improperly done job."
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 10, 2019, 07:47:29 PM
Thanks for checking and replying Crossboss!  :)

I think that Talledega race was the most they ever were used, as Bob (Christiansen)  ran his rain tires on these six spokes, and ran the regular race tires on the 'lighter' 5-spokes (one of which was cracked)... He regularly X-rayed the 5-spokes when he was racing them.

I don't plan to do anything with these six spokes but 'cruise and be cool'... :).

Any idea what temperature they need to be pre-baked before the cleaning/powder coating?  I don't think this powder coater has ever done magnesium...

Gary
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: maroman on May 10, 2019, 08:22:29 PM
Can we sneak a peek at what they look like now? How much does the Dow coating cost?
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: crossboss on May 10, 2019, 08:29:58 PM
Thanks for checking and replying Crossboss!  :)

I think that Talledega race was the most they ever were used, as Bob (Christiansen)  ran his rain tires on these six spokes, and ran the regular race tires on the 'lighter' 5-spokes (one of which was cracked)... He regularly X-rayed the 5-spokes when he was racing them.

I don't plan to do anything with these six spokes but 'cruise and be cool'... :).

Any idea what temperature they need to be pre-baked before the cleaning/powder coating?  I don't think this powder coater has ever done magnesium...

Gary



Gary, glad to help! Concerning the 'pre-heat' I have no clue….That would be a question for an experienced powder coating guy that IS familiar with magnesium wheels, and how to proceed with the process.
-Scott aka 'crossboss'
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 11, 2019, 01:27:32 PM
Can we sneak a peek at what they look like now? How much does the Dow coating cost?

I assume you mean the 'as is' condition after a few years of use on the track and 40 yrs of storage in my garage? :)
Here they are now; photos are still 'warm' as I just photographed them!   One of them is 'cleaner' as I lightly sanded and sprayed some 'cast blast' on it a few years ago.   I had to greatly reduce the sizes of these images to allow posting within the standards.



Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 11, 2019, 01:31:53 PM
Thanks for checking and replying Crossboss!  :)

I think that Talledega race was the most they ever were used, as Bob (Christiansen)  ran his rain tires on these six spokes, and ran the regular race tires on the 'lighter' 5-spokes (one of which was cracked)... He regularly X-rayed the 5-spokes when he was racing them.

I don't plan to do anything with these six spokes but 'cruise and be cool'... :).

Any idea what temperature they need to be pre-baked before the cleaning/powder coating?  I don't think this powder coater has ever done magnesium...

Gary



Gary, glad to help! Concerning the 'pre-heat' I have no clue….That would be a question for an experienced powder coating guy that IS familiar with magnesium wheels, and how to proceed with the process.
-Scott aka 'crossboss'

I would assume that baking at 250F or so would take care of the 'outgassing' required??   Magnesium can 'combust' at nearly 900F, but I assume that the powder coating oven wouldn't get anywhere near to that.   I've seen wheels GLOW red hot during heavy braking during road races... 
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: maroman on May 11, 2019, 03:25:45 PM
Thanks Gary.
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: Trans Åm on May 12, 2019, 03:07:59 PM
Gary, I am a jealous jealous man. hahaha

I LOVE those wheels. Can't wait for you to get them mounted.



Did they ever make that style of rim in aluminum, or were they racing Mags only?
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 13, 2019, 02:30:09 AM
Gary, I am a jealous jealous man. hahaha

I LOVE those wheels. Can't wait for you to get them mounted.

Did they ever make that style of rim in aluminum, or were they racing Mags only?

I'd love to see how they looked on my Z28, but I doubt they really could be ran very much as I tried to run 15x8 Corvette wheels back in the '70's after buying my car, and they scrubbed pretty badly on the front, so I put back the original YH wheels.

I think the ARE AD70 wheels are pretty unique; I've seen a few sets in photos of the original Trans Am Racers (although much fewer than you see with Minilites), and I've seen the Univ of Pittsburgh (restored) TA racer which had them on it.  I have a photograph or two of them on that car.  I don't think they've ever been done in Aluminum, although I have no way of knowing for sure other than saying I've never seen any.

The "story" on the AD70 wheels were that they were a 'fix' for the ARE 5-spokes that were originally being ran on most of  the TA cars, but were having a spokes 'cracking' problem on several sixties TA cars.  ARE designed/built these wheels which are stronger (and heavier) but by the time they got them available for the racers, *most* of the racers had converted to Minilite wheels (another case of being a day late).   I weighed the 5-spoke ARE wheels and these 6-sopke wheels several years ago and posted the weights of each - should be in a old post.  I've never seen an equivalent 15x8 minilite weight but I doubt they are as heavy as the AD70's but might be a bit heavier than the 5-spoke AREs.
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 13, 2019, 03:27:28 AM
If you check out page 10 of the following link (posts 92 thry 98)     

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7924.0

You'll find an ARE ad for the TA70 wheels, and also photos of the Univ of Pittsburgh trans am camaro running these wheels...

Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: ZLP955 on May 15, 2019, 11:48:07 AM
Gary those wheels are a fantastic design, love 'em. Do you know the backspacing?
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 15, 2019, 01:02:14 PM
Gary those wheels are a fantastic design, love 'em. Do you know the backspacing?

4" backspacing on the TA70 six spokes...

I talked to the powder coater yesterday, and need to go see them and ovens/etc.  If I get them powder coated (or maybe just have them cleaned and baked and then Paint them?).. I'd like to run them occasionally to shows/etc on either my Z28 or my Corvette, but I'd need some 'racey looking/appearing', but still 'streetable' tires!   Does anyone have any suggestions for such a tire to run on a 15x8 wheel?  I suppose Good Year blue streaks don't qualify as 'steetable'.. :)
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: maroman on May 15, 2019, 01:19:09 PM
OK, here's my opinion. I think powder coating is going to look too glossy and fake for a competition wheel. The wheels are good looking by themselves, don't need to have a modern appearance like I think they will get. If anything, shoot the money and have them Dow coated .
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 15, 2019, 01:34:44 PM
Maroman,

I appreciate your opinion, but I don't know what 'dow coating' is...  and I couldn't find anything on the web by searching for 'dow coating' for wheels...

Can you elaborate and provide advantages of and perhaps a photo or two?  and Where such coatings are done?
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: maroman on May 15, 2019, 02:54:08 PM
It is the goldish colored coating on Indy 500 wheels. Those are goo looking wheels, they deserve the best.
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: crossboss on May 15, 2019, 08:25:57 PM
Here is another response from a T/A racer over at the Boss 302 site:

"I've had several sets of magnesium wheels painted but never powder coated.  I look at powder coating on parts that you buy for our cars and it tends to fail and come off in large pieces.  Maybe that's prep but I'm not fond of it. What I have used successfully is military grade etching primer with mil-spec paint for the top coat. Yes it still will chip off after time but is much easier to repair and still match up."

Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: maroman on May 15, 2019, 10:05:03 PM
I THINK it is the Dow 7 coating. I also agree with the painting. At least it can be removed when it fails unlike PC. PC does not like direct sunlight.
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 16, 2019, 03:12:41 AM
OK fellas..  I had always planned on a good urethane paint, but wanted to see the opinions on powder coating...   I will go back to my plan of PAINTING the wheels;  I'd really wanted the rim area painted a silvery color anyway, with a darker gray center spokes, and I can do that with urethane paint and do it myself.. :)

If I do that before I forget to post here, I'll post some photos.. :)

Gary
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: crossboss on May 16, 2019, 06:14:08 PM
OK fellas..  I had always planned on a good urethane paint, but wanted to see the opinions on powder coating...   I will go back to my plan of PAINTING the wheels;  I'd really wanted the rim area painted a silvery color anyway, with a darker gray center spokes, and I can do that with urethane paint and do it myself.. :)

If I do that before I forget to post here, I'll post some photos.. :)

Gary



Gary,
I used a flat clear enamel on a magnesium intake and some valve covers for my current project. Looks awesome. Urethane is just as durable in my opinion.
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: crossboss on May 18, 2019, 08:26:29 PM
Gary,
Vintage Trans-Am racer J. Bittle has the exact same wheels, and he said that he uses high heat military grade paint. IF you want I can post a picture of his car/wheels for a reference.
-Scott.
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: 69Z28-RS on May 21, 2019, 02:55:55 AM
Please post the photos; I and others I'm sure would love to see the car and wheels...  :)
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: crossboss on May 22, 2019, 12:58:46 AM
Here you go…
Click on pics to enlarge.
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: crossboss on May 22, 2019, 12:59:37 AM
Another...
Click on pic to enlarge.
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: maroman on May 22, 2019, 01:13:22 AM
They look racey. I like them.
Title: Re: Powder Coat *real* Magnesium Wheels???
Post by: crossboss on May 22, 2019, 06:40:20 PM
I agree, those wheels really set his car apart from the others in the field.