CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Restoration => Topic started by: Edgemontvillage on December 24, 2018, 02:40:33 PM

Title: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 24, 2018, 02:40:33 PM
There are a couple of threads on this subject however no posts confirming the actual width of the original body mount tape used by Fisher Body during the 1969 model year to seal the #3 body mount holes. Aftermarket tape is 1 1/2" wide which seems narrow vs the original. A couple of posts noted the approximate width of the original tape at 2" however I'd appreciate if a Member with an original car could confirm the actual width of the tape used by Fisher?

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4890/45722849204_fbf7bdc99a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cEny7h) (https://flic.kr/p/2cEny7h)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7869/44629245940_882b23fa19.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2aZJxXA) (https://flic.kr/p/2aZJxXA) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on December 24, 2018, 03:44:32 PM
Kind of hard to measure but it seems the width of the cushion is about correct. Have to admit I used the available width Lloyd. Here is a picture of Skip's 69 mount and tape and believe it gives a fair assessment of width.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7808/31507309427_98529ff0c6.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Q1ccoT)

Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 24, 2018, 05:41:57 PM
Thanks Chick, I’m hoping a Member can post a measured width. It makes me wonder when I see photos like this. If this an original a radiator support mount bolt and washer were used

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7883/32576072818_036c20c052_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RCCTvU) (https://flic.kr/p/RCCTvU)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: R68GTO on December 24, 2018, 06:18:47 PM
This is not definitive as the tape is very brittle and curled a bit on the edges, but here's a measurement from a "tail" I removed from a 15,000 mile car this morning.  If I was to venture a guess based on this piece, I would say it's close to 2 1/2".
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 67CruiseMaster on December 24, 2018, 08:20:34 PM
Curious. What was that tape used for during assembly?
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 77thor on December 24, 2018, 09:02:13 PM
Wow. I was not aware that they even used tape.

Learn somethin' new every day.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Danzo on December 24, 2018, 09:52:05 PM
Curious. What was that tape used for during assembly?

Read the first post, it's in there.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on December 24, 2018, 10:53:41 PM
Curious. What was that tape used for during assembly?

Read the first post, it's in there.
In that body mount if tape had not been used water would go in the interior compartment when they completed some type of pressure watger leak test.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: firstgenaddict on December 25, 2018, 12:24:19 AM
Thanks Chick, I’m hoping a Member can post a measured width. It makes me wonder when I see photos like this. If this an original a radiator support mount bolt and washer were used

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7883/32576072818_036c20c052_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RCCTvU) (https://flic.kr/p/RCCTvU)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

That appears to be the 67-68 & possibly EARLY 69- style bolt arrangement which used a spring washer between the bolt and the flat washer.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 25, 2018, 03:44:02 AM
Curious. What was that tape used for during assembly?

Read the first post, it's in there.

According to John Z, Fisher body performed a 3 minute under-body water spray penetration test (well before the subframe was installed) which required the rear body mount holes (subframe to body) and rear shock tower holes to be sealed with tape. The tape covering the body mount holes was pierced by the body mount bolts during subframe installation and sandwiched between the bushing/cushion and floor pan which made it possible for some examples to survive (see above photos).
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 25, 2018, 03:49:58 AM
This is not definitive as the tape is very brittle and curled a bit on the edges, but here's a measurement from a "tail" I removed from a 15,000 mile car this morning.  If I was to venture a guess based on this piece, I would say it's close to 2 1/2".

Thanks for posting, is the tape from a 69 Camaro? Is your 2 1/2" figure based on your estimate of the width of the tape or the length?
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on December 25, 2018, 04:04:59 AM
Thanks Chick, I’m hoping a Member can post a measured width. It makes me wonder when I see photos like this. If this an original a radiator support mount bolt and washer were used

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7883/32576072818_036c20c052_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RCCTvU) (https://flic.kr/p/RCCTvU)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

That appears to be the 67-68 & possibly EARLY 69- style bolt arrangement which used a spring washer between the bolt and the flat washer.
James, know you work on these rascals all the time but I've never seen that bolt head other than used for the radiator support and its not the part # called out in the AIM. What is normally seen is the RBW bolt which is on the left.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7831/32581403318_5f4ae1ee85.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RD7d65)

Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on December 25, 2018, 04:09:59 AM
Thanks Chick, I’m hoping a Member can post a measured width. It makes me wonder when I see photos like this. If this an original a radiator support mount bolt and washer were used

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7883/32576072818_036c20c052_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RCCTvU) (https://flic.kr/p/RCCTvU)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

That appears to be the 67-68 & possibly EARLY 69- style bolt arrangement which used a spring washer between the bolt and the flat washer.
James, know you work on these rascals all the time but I've never seen that bolt head other than used for the radiator support and its not the part # called out in the AIM. What is normally seen is the RBW bolt which is on the left.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7831/32581403318_5f4ae1ee85.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RD7d65)


I get it now James as your reference to the washer not the incorrect use of a radiator support bolt. I believe you posted this picture some years ago which does well showing 67/68. Sorry Lloyd for the side track.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4912/45730527184_87a2a9a958.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cF3Uvf)

Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: R68GTO on December 25, 2018, 12:02:56 PM
This is not definitive as the tape is very brittle and curled a bit on the edges, but here's a measurement from a "tail" I removed from a 15,000 mile car this morning.  If I was to venture a guess based on this piece, I would say it's close to 2 1/2".

Thanks for posting, is the tape from a 69 Camaro? Is your 2 1/2" figure based on your estimate of the width of the tape or the length?

Yes, 69 Camaro.  There was a tail on each side of the bushing, the tail in the photo was toward the front of the car.  I say it's width because it seems counter-intuitive to say that someone would tear or cut tape shorter than the width.  Anyone know what the hole diameter is on the floor pan?  One can safely assume that the tape width is slightly larger than the hole diameter so the worker at Fisher didn't have to pay too much attention when performing this task.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: firstgenaddict on December 25, 2018, 12:44:37 PM
The radiator support bolts are not the same size, they are a smaller thread size by 2 sizes or so. 
The main subframe to body bolts must be 5/8" threads and I believe the rad support are 7/16. 
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on December 25, 2018, 07:03:57 PM
The radiator support bolts are not the same size, they are a smaller thread size by 2 sizes or so. 
The main subframe to body bolts must be 5/8" threads and I believe the rad support are 7/16. 
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7860/45549080695_7d24c2ff92.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cp1WMv)

Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Danzo on December 26, 2018, 04:02:38 PM
Has anyone ever seen the tape still covering the rear shock mount holes?
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: R68GTO on December 27, 2018, 12:48:46 AM
Just checked mine quick - nothing there.  Shocks are not original and that area of the car would get a lot mortar/moisture disturbance from the rear tire.  As brittle as my subframe tape is, I'm guessing the rear shock tape would not survive.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 27, 2018, 10:00:46 PM
Kind of hard to measure but it seems the width of the cushion is about correct. Have to admit I used the available width Lloyd. Here is a picture of Skip's 69 mount and tape and believe it gives a fair assessment of width.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7808/31507309427_98529ff0c6.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Q1ccoT)


Still looking for a more data points from original cars to confirm the tape width. I've asked the current owner of my former 10 10 RS/Z to measure and photograph the tape on that car and hope to hear back from him soon. Below is a photo I took of Skip's 69 survivor during MCACN Vintage Certification judging which is a different angle from Chick's photo and further suggests the tape was (at least) the diameter of the sub frame cushion.     

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4841/45578101705_18eee7c430_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2crzFHK)AA6A0594 (https://flic.kr/p/2crzFHK)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: ZLP955 on December 28, 2018, 06:25:21 AM
Has anyone ever seen the tape still covering the rear shock mount holes?
I've seen (and saved somewhere) photos of this detail but not observed it in person. Noted it because I was looking at the original shock absorber cap detail at the time.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 28, 2018, 09:24:34 PM
I measured an NOS cushion at about 2 1/2 inches (non compressed) vs the parts vendor body mount tape which measures just 1 1/2" and it just doesn't seem wide enough. Below is a photo of my subframe with the parts vendor tape.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7840/44687297100_e1721c6986_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2b5S5xE) (https://flic.kr/p/2b5S5xE)

Vendor tape installed on my subframe (pardon the dust)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7918/45591222675_e72030f925_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2csJW8n) (https://flic.kr/p/2csJW8n)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7808/44687502790_22f4a5768b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2b5T8G3) (https://flic.kr/p/2b5T8G3)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)



Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on December 28, 2018, 09:45:19 PM
  AMK sells 2" (7 mils thick x 2" x 180') black masking tape under p/n B-11665 for $12. That's what I used on my resto.

Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 28, 2018, 09:53:59 PM
Photos of the subframe cushions from the 10 10 69 RS/Z weren't helpful.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4840/46504749701_68934ea12e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dRsZTk) (https://flic.kr/p/2dRsZTk)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7915/32631816788_61d5edf6df_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RHyAfQ) (https://flic.kr/p/RHyAfQ)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 28, 2018, 10:01:11 PM
  AMK sells 2" (7 mils thick x 2" x 180') black masking tape under p/n B-11665 for $12. That's what I used on my resto.

Mike

Thanks Mike, 2" black crepe paper tape seems to be the way to go, the widest width I've found is also 2"(in ~7mil thickness). Also available on Amazon for a slightly lower price.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: ZLP955 on December 29, 2018, 01:33:19 AM
Wouldn't think masking/paper tape would prevent water ingress?
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 29, 2018, 01:39:48 AM
Wouldn't think masking/paper tape would prevent water ingress?
Wouldn't think masking/paper tape would prevent water ingress?

True but then it only needed to "live" for 3 minutes.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on December 29, 2018, 02:10:44 AM
I measured an NOS cushion at about 2 1/2 inches (non compressed) vs the parts vendor body mount tape which measures just 1 1/2" and it just doesn't seem wide enough. Below is a photo of my subframe with the parts vendor tape.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7840/44687297100_e1721c6986_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2b5S5xE) (https://flic.kr/p/2b5S5xE)

Vendor tape installed on my subframe (pardon the dust)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7918/45591222675_e72030f925_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2csJW8n) (https://flic.kr/p/2csJW8n)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7808/44687502790_22f4a5768b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2b5T8G3) (https://flic.kr/p/2b5T8G3)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)




This is what I used and believe I got it from Quanta, primarily a corvette parts house. Note its about the same size as the cushion Lloyd!
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7856/32634231118_e5c5b36691.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RHLXXd)


Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 29, 2018, 02:25:44 AM
Chick, I previously checked Quanta's site as I have had dealings with them before and could only find the same width 1 1/2" tape other vendors sell? From their product listing:

Body Mount Shim Tape - 1-1/2" wide Black
Applications: 1965 Corvette: Corvettes and other cars had their body mounting shims or mounts held in place with special tape while the body was dropped onto the frame. This tape is thicker than standard masking tape
Quantity: 1 roll, black
Packaging: Boxed
Part Number: 03-10


Is there another tape width they sell?
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on December 29, 2018, 02:43:35 AM
Chick, I previously checked Quanta's site as I have had dealings with them before and could only find the same width 1 1/2" tape other vendors sell? From their product listing:

Body Mount Shim Tape - 1-1/2" wide Black
Applications: 1965 Corvette: Corvettes and other cars had their body mounting shims or mounts held in place with special tape while the body was dropped onto the frame. This tape is thicker than standard masking tape
Quantity: 1 roll, black
Packaging: Boxed
Part Number: 03-10


Is there another tape width they sell?
Just made a quick check of the garage and not finding what I used if I had any left but will do some more checking. Thought it came with their paint/marking kit but not 100% sure Lloyd. If I can find anything out I will report back.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 30, 2018, 02:55:22 AM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4896/46462157172_54b1c38ce9.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dMGGBo) (https://flic.kr/p/2dMGGBo)   (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Chick I couldn't help but notice the bushing in your photo appears to have the integrated washer which would be the 3928380 instead of the 3901361 bushing or is that camera flash?
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Danzo on December 30, 2018, 03:41:28 PM
How about this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ProTapes-Colored-Crepe-Paper-Masking-Tape-60-yds-Length-x-2-Width-Black-Pack/183186058286?hash=item2aa6bd6c2e:rk:15:pf:0
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 30, 2018, 04:34:51 PM
How about this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ProTapes-Colored-Crepe-Paper-Masking-Tape-60-yds-Length-x-2-Width-Black-Pack/183186058286?hash=item2aa6bd6c2e:rk:15:pf:0

That’s it. Seems the Camaro parts vendors should offer this wider tape.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on December 30, 2018, 05:24:34 PM
 Looks like what I bought from AMK, but a few dollars cheaper.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Hans L on December 31, 2018, 01:19:51 AM
I remember reading about this some years ago, but found no signs of tape when I removed the subframe from my '69 LA built Camaro. 

Does anyone know if by chance the LA plant in '69 may have removed the tape prior to attaching the subframe?     Good news I was planning on attaching the subframe in the next few days...still time to add the tape.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on December 31, 2018, 02:42:02 AM
 I just checked my 04B 67 LOS and there is absolutely no indication of tape.
Unless it was removed prior to installing the chassis, maybe GMAD operated differently?

LLoyd, how much tape do you need?

Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 31, 2018, 03:29:32 AM
The body mounts are 2 1/2” in diameter and you want about 1” over on either side so call it 5” per side x 2 sides so 10 inches of tape does it. 
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on December 31, 2018, 03:38:29 AM
If you PM me your address I can send you a couple of feet.

Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on December 31, 2018, 04:58:10 AM
If you PM me your address I can send you a couple of feet.

Mike

Thanks Mike!
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 02, 2019, 10:51:16 PM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4896/46462157172_54b1c38ce9.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dMGGBo) (https://flic.kr/p/2dMGGBo)   (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Chick I couldn't help but notice the bushing in your photo appears to have the integrated washer which would be the 3928380 instead of the 3901361 bushing or is that camera flash?
Dang it Lloyd now you ruined my new Year..... LOL I'm not sure how that has happened as I'm confident I had all my biscuits and donuts all lined up by part # for the sub-frame as the owner I purchased the car from had already bought them and I checked all those against the AIM but it sure would look like I must have screwed up and will have to examine that. 
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Hans L on January 03, 2019, 05:35:56 PM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4896/46462157172_54b1c38ce9.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dMGGBo) (https://flic.kr/p/2dMGGBo)   (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Chick I couldn't help but notice the bushing in your photo appears to have the integrated washer which would be the 3928380 instead of the 3901361 bushing or is that camera flash?
Dang it Lloyd now you ruined my new Year..... LOL I'm not sure how that has happened as I'm confident I had all my biscuits and donuts all lined up by part # for the sub-frame as the owner I purchased the car from had already bought them and I checked all those against the AIM but it sure would look like I must have screwed up and will have to examine that. 

Chick - Well - appears you had the right body mount bushing here:  http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7497.0.   
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 03, 2019, 06:31:29 PM

Chick I couldn't help but notice the bushing in your photo appears to have the integrated washer which would be the 3928380 instead of the 3901361 bushing or is that camera flash?
Dang it Lloyd now you ruined my new Year..... LOL I'm not sure how that has happened as I'm confident I had all my biscuits and donuts all lined up by part # for the sub-frame as the owner I purchased the car from had already bought them and I checked all those against the AIM but it sure would look like I must have screwed up and will have to examine that. 

Chick - Well - appears you had the right body mount bushing here:  http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7497.0.   



Hans, none of the factory installed 3901361 bushings I have seen use an integrated washer, it might be a later service replacement bushing that Chick has and, as we have seen frequently, NOS / service replacement and assembly line originals, are often different. 
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Hans L on January 03, 2019, 06:39:11 PM

Chick I couldn't help but notice the bushing in your photo appears to have the integrated washer which would be the 3928380 instead of the 3901361 bushing or is that camera flash?
Dang it Lloyd now you ruined my new Year..... LOL I'm not sure how that has happened as I'm confident I had all my biscuits and donuts all lined up by part # for the sub-frame as the owner I purchased the car from had already bought them and I checked all those against the AIM but it sure would look like I must have screwed up and will have to examine that. 

Chick - Well - appears you had the right body mount bushing here:  http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7497.0.   



Hans, none of the factory installed 3901361 bushings I have seen use an integrated washer, it might be a later service replacement bushing that Chick has and, as we have seen frequently, NOS / service replacement and assembly line original, are often different. 

Interesting.  I'll check the originals I removed from the car and confirm.  I installed the older NOS version recently.  I assume you can't remove the integrated washer?
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 03, 2019, 06:44:19 PM
Lloyd, 
   I'm a little confused, are you saying the integrated washer (I assume you mean the metal against the floor) was not on original bushings?

Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 03, 2019, 07:01:26 PM
Lloyd, 
   I'm a little confused, are you saying the integrated washer (I assume you mean the metal against the floor) was not on original bushings?

Mike

Mike, from my observations, the upper bushing in Position #3 did not have the integrated washer, there was not a metal bushing washer against the floor pan.   
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 03, 2019, 07:19:33 PM
Interesting.  I'll check the originals I removed from the car and confirm.  I installed the older NOS version recently.  I assume you can't remove the integrated washer?



Hans, if memory serves, bushings with the integrated washer are of a different design and meant to interlock with the non integrated washer bushings (eg 361 with the 380). I don't think the integrated washer was designed to be removed.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 03, 2019, 08:14:47 PM
Here are the R&L side pictures of the rear bushing from my 67 04B LOS coupe (I assume this is the #3 position).
They have the integrated washer. The 67 AIM also shows them in the drawing. Unless this was a '67 thing?
 I'll look closer and see if I can see the P/N.


Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 03, 2019, 08:33:27 PM
Here are the R&L side pictures of the rear bushing from my 67 04B LOS coupe (I assume this is the #3 position).
They have the integrated washer. The 67 AIM also shows them in the drawing. Unless this was a '67 thing?
 I'll look closer and see if I can see the P/N.

Mike

Interesting. Can you confirm the bushings are factory original to your car?  Are the PNs still visible? It "appears" the upper bushing has the integrated washer and the lower bushing doesn't? In the 1968 and 1969 AIMs the Position 3 top bushing image is the same (integrated washer bushing) however we know that's not definitive as the bushing construction is different.

Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 03, 2019, 08:59:13 PM
 There is no doubt about being original. I have owned the car since 1980 and I bought it from the original owner who had it sitting his his garage for 6 years prior (with beach chairs and other junk piled on top of it). I'll look on the sides for the P/N. As for the lower busing, I assume you mean the one between the body bolt washer and chassis. That sounds correct....no washer in the lower one. That's the same as on the 67 convertible I restored.

Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 03, 2019, 10:09:46 PM

Chick I couldn't help but notice the bushing in your photo appears to have the integrated washer which would be the 3928380 instead of the 3901361 bushing or is that camera flash?
Dang it Lloyd now you ruined my new Year..... LOL I'm not sure how that has happened as I'm confident I had all my biscuits and donuts all lined up by part # for the sub-frame as the owner I purchased the car from had already bought them and I checked all those against the AIM but it sure would look like I must have screwed up and will have to examine that. 

Chick - Well - appears you had the right body mount bushing here:  http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7497.0.   



Hans, none of the factory installed 3901361 bushings I have seen use an integrated washer, it might be a later service replacement bushing that Chick has and, as we have seen frequently, NOS / service replacement and assembly line originals, are often different. 
[/quote
Guess you have seen one now! LOL Thanks Hans as I've had some family health issues to assist with and had not really investigated other than a comment that I was sure what I put in was correct part # wise. Lloyd might be correct but I've only looked at a small amount of gen I sub-frame bushings to speak of. Looking at the 68 AIM just now and the picture indicates the integrated washer but know that there are other mistakes within the AIM and one cannot justify something based on a AIM picture. The pieces I used were purchased mainly in 1979 time frame.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 04, 2019, 01:17:46 AM
 I looked at the bushing and there is a lot of cracking where the numbers are so it is hard to make out what they are.
But, looking at the various pictures posted in this thread, all the bushings show the metal between it and the floor.
What is different about the bushing construction that's in question?

Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 04, 2019, 02:23:55 AM
I looked at the bushing and there is a lot of cracking where the numbers are so it is hard to make out what they are.
But, looking at the various pictures posted in this thread, all the bushings show the metal between it and the floor.
What is different about the bushing construction that's in question?

Mike

Mike, the bushings shown in Reply #1, 3, 18 (lower photo), 20 and 22 are examples of upper bushings that don't have the integrated washer so there is no metal washer to floor pan contact. The difference in bushing construction is best seen in my posting Reply #20. The bushing shown in the digital caliper is a hard grainy rubber compound as compared to the installed bushing (...361) in the photo below it which is a smooth flexible rubber compound allowing more  "squish" when torqued. (both are NOS)
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 04, 2019, 02:49:26 AM
 Hi Lloyd,
  In reply #20, the metal sleeve is only in the center of the bushing with no washer on the outside?
I see in reply #22 (10/10 69 RS) the bushing shows what looks like a metal ring w/oxidation against the floor.
This is interesting!  This weekend I may venture to remove the rear bushing on the 67 LOS and see if the chassis will move enough to get it out.
  On another note.....while looking closely at the '67 LOS, I've noticed, for the first time since I have owned this car, exposed tape on the rear right shock. Below is a closeup. I see just partial edges on the other side shock. But, I see no evidence on the floor openings but I won't know for sure until I remove one of the bushings.

Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Hans L on January 04, 2019, 03:33:43 AM
Well, nothing conclusive, but here's the body mount bushings I removed from my '69 04B LA Built Z.  All have integrated washers but  unfortunately, no signs of part numbers left as they appear to have corroded/cracked away.  But with that, upon closer inspection, I believe there are hints of body tape remnants left on the #3 bushings.   While possible, I have no reason to believe the body bushings were replaced - the lower cushions all had legible part numbers and correct per the AIM. 

(https://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Camaro%20Components/DSC_9353_zpsqzllax4v.jpg) (https://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Camaro%20Components/DSC_9353_zpsqzllax4v.jpg.html)

(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Camaro%20Components/DSC_9354_zpszf8y0wet.jpg) (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Camaro%20Components/DSC_9354_zpszf8y0wet.jpg.html)

(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Camaro%20Components/DSC_9389_zpszeepbodo.jpg) (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Camaro%20Components/DSC_9389_zpszeepbodo.jpg.html)

(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Camaro%20Components/DSC_9395_zpsunptwvlo.jpg) (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Camaro%20Components/DSC_9395_zpsunptwvlo.jpg.html)






Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 04, 2019, 03:47:16 AM
Hi Lloyd,
  In reply #20, the metal sleeve is only in the center of the bushing with no washer on the outside?
I see in reply #22 (10/10 69 RS) the bushing shows what looks like a metal ring w/oxidation against the floor.
This is interesting!  This weekend I may venture to remove the rear bushing on the 67 LOS and see if the chassis will move enough to get it out.
  On another note.....while looking closely at the '67 LOS, I've noticed, for the first time since I have owned this car, exposed tape on the rear right shock. Below is a closeup. I see just partial edges on the other side shock. But, I see no evidence on the floor openings but I won't know for sure until I remove one of the bushings.

Mike


Mike, in the Reply #20 photos only the lower bushing shown in the digital caliper has a washer and the upper bushing (female side, PN ...361) doesn't have any steel in it.  Reply #22, is a photo from my former 10 10 car (Norwood 4C build date) and the oxidation you're referring isn't from the top bushing. As I previously owned the car I can attest it didn't have steel washers in the Position 3 upper bushings. 

The photo of the '67's rear shock mount is interesting and the first I've seen evidencing tape in that area - please post your findings. On Charlie Lillard's (former) 1,100 mile 1970 Z there is a photo of the tape on the inside of the trunk at the shock mount location. Possibly a change in procedure with the Gen 2 body? 
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 04, 2019, 04:02:04 AM
Well, nothing conclusive, but here's the body mount bushings I removed from my '69 04B LA Built Z.  All have integrated washers but  unfortunately, no signs of part numbers left as they appear to have corroded/cracked away.  But with that, upon closer inspection, I believe there are hints of body tape remnants left on the #3 bushings.   While possible, I have no reason to believe the body bushings were replaced - the lower cushions all had legible part numbers and correct per the AIM. 


Great intel and photos Hans. The only manufacturer's identification I've seen on any subframe bushings is "WHITE" however I wonder if the construction varied by source. On my current project, the 2B Norwood RS/Z, there were no integrated washers in the Position 3 upper bushings either. 
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Camarocards on January 04, 2019, 06:30:40 PM
Lloyd,

Just another reference point for you....

These are the bushings that came out of my '68 01D car. All have integrated washers. Yes, I know, they were pretty bad!  :) I found no additional washers on the 380's or 361's when the car was disassembled and unfortunately no sign of any tape. I can't attest that they were never changed by a previous owner but I've owned this car since 1978 and it's never been apart. Judging from the condition of them I highly suspect they're original to the car!

Also interesting to note that none of the bushings or cushions had any part numbers or manufacturers mark on them.

Bob
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 04, 2019, 06:39:22 PM
  Interesting Bob & Hans....I looked (and even used a bore scope to get real close) and found no part numbers on my 67 04B LOS. Unless they weren't very pronounced and the cracking makes them impossible to make out.
I did find a few NOS bushings in the shed and they do have P/N's on them.

Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: luv2sixty9 on January 04, 2019, 07:25:13 PM
Chick,
I my opinion your 361 bushing is correct and has the washer style collar on top that all bushing come with to assist the thin floor board. It 's also required to aid in holding the lower cushion in place.
I believe sometime in July of 68 the lower cushion was replaced with a #720 cushion vs the #802 cushion. I don't know what your car currently has installed but because I think your car is a June or July build date if you have the 802 it would also be correct. So, with that said I say your car has no issues.

I have never seen a 361 or any of the other Camaro bushings ever missing the top flat washer collar, but it can be removed. I don't know if the factory worker assembled them or if the were ready to use when the subframe was installed.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Hans L on January 04, 2019, 08:04:40 PM
  Interesting Bob & Hans....I looked (and even used a bore scope to get real close) and found no part numbers on my 67 04B LOS. Unless they weren't very pronounced and the cracking makes them impossible to make out.
I did find a few NOS bushings in the shed and they do have P/N's on them.

Mike

Same.  I washed them, hoping the water would bring out tell tale signs of PN's.  Took photos, zoomed in, played with contrast/lighting and found nothing.  Only the front radiator bushings had discernible PN's and all the lower cushions had PN's (and as they were in decent shape, re-installed them as the NOS font style was quite different than the originals).

Radiator Core Support Bushing/Mount:
(https://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t478/jwlittooy/Camaro%20Components/DSC_9356_zps1oarkdar.jpg) (https://s1061.photobucket.com/user/jwlittooy/media/Camaro%20Components/DSC_9356_zps1oarkdar.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Danzo on January 04, 2019, 11:58:14 PM
Mike, very interesting find on the rear shock ! Please let us know your findings!!
Doc.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 05, 2019, 12:39:13 AM
Thanks Dave as I've reviewed my info and believe them to be correct. Nice work (pics) Bob, Hans & showing examples as well. Here is a picture of one of mine I used that is now in the car.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7856/46605974971_bcd941f64d.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2e1pNCB)
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Camarocards on January 05, 2019, 01:05:29 AM
Chick,

Any thoughts on why some cars have bushings where there is no part number or markings? Do you think it’s a case of different suppliers or perhaps the Service replacement bushings only had the part number on them?

Bob
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 05, 2019, 02:39:46 AM
Chick,

Any thoughts on why some cars have bushings where there is no part number or markings? Do you think it’s a case of different suppliers or perhaps the Service replacement bushings only had the part number on them?

Bob
To be honest Bob, I never had a need to research since our car had the correct part #'s, and many other rubber parts had part #'s identifying. The people that can really answer this are people who have a track record of reviewing original cars similar to Steve Shauger, Chris White and other team members who judge "Vintage" Survivor Camaro's at MCACN. And yes possibly some of these did not have part #'s but later service replacements did.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: dannystarr on January 05, 2019, 10:25:46 PM
Well I spent some time on this, I hope it helps.
I put both survivor '68 cars on a lift. I was pocking my head up on the left side frame rail of Raquel and discovered a piece of the tape just laying there on top of the frame right next to it's original install position. :o
I delicately pulled it down. I measured it and it seems to me to be 3-1/8th" Left to Right X the foot print of the tape on the under body at 2-1/8th" Front to Back. Could it have shrunk some in 50 years? If it did, then I say 3-1/4" X 2-1/4".  The picture shows the tape. So it's clearly not 1.5 or 2 X 2  That's the best I have on both cars. Danny
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: dannystarr on January 05, 2019, 10:27:21 PM
more
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 05, 2019, 11:53:21 PM
Are both of these NOR or LOS cars Danny? And also noted yet another example of body mounts that meet the body having the integrated metal washer.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Danzo on January 06, 2019, 03:25:12 AM
Here is a picture of Charley's pace car (from the Yenko site) The plot thickens.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: dannystarr on January 06, 2019, 07:00:34 AM
I just re-read this, I meant poking of course. But anyway, both cars are Norwood. This is the BY car. That tape from Charley's car looks even better, lets get that measured  ;) ;)  ... Danny
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: BillOhio on January 06, 2019, 04:47:44 PM
I am sure I saved my tape but can not get to it to check it out. I remember seeing it and wondering what it was and later found info on this great site.  Amazing any of it lasted 50 years
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 06, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
If it is 3" tape then I see that's available on eBay
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Sauron327 on January 06, 2019, 09:40:08 PM

Mike, the bushings shown in Reply #1, 3, 18 (lower photo), 20 and 22 are examples of upper bushings that don't have the integrated washer so there is no metal washer to floor pan contact. The difference in bushing construction is best seen in my posting Reply #20. The bushing shown in the digital caliper is a hard grainy rubber compound as compared to the installed bushing (...361) in the photo below it which is a smooth flexible rubber compound allowing more  "squish" when torqued. (both are NOS) [/font][/size]

I clicked on those images and can clearly see the washer to floorpan. Every car I've torn apart since 1982 has washer to pan contact.  It's needed as a reinforcement.

I have a 67 11D here and there are no part numbers on the original bushings. Only numbers on the lower bushings which are 115, KF, 50,61, and 66.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 06, 2019, 11:29:21 PM
This is the widest width (2.00") black crepe paper based tape I could source (thanks to those who offered to send me some however I ordered this early in the thread).

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4918/45718972875_44dcdc04f7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cE2FP2) (https://flic.kr/p/2cE2FP2)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
 
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Danzo on January 07, 2019, 12:17:28 AM
As Mike stated in Reply 69 ebay
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 07, 2019, 12:51:37 AM
 This looks like a possibility. If it is too wide then I am sure it can be cut narrow being we are talking about short pieces.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/JVCC-JV497-Black-Masking-Tape-3-in-x-60-yds-Black/192661420554


Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 07, 2019, 01:01:11 AM
This looks like a possibility. If it is too wide then I am sure it can be cut narrow being we are talking about short pieces.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/JVCC-JV497-Black-Masking-Tape-3-in-x-60-yds-Black/192661420554


Mike


Thanks Mike, I’m going to order a roll.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 07, 2019, 01:25:13 AM
Here is a picture of Charley's pace car (from the Yenko site) The plot thickens.

Although not a Gen 1, here are photos of the trunk of Charlie's former 1,100 mile '70 Z/28 - note the tape. The spatter paint coverage is far better than I've seen on Norwood Gen 1's:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7800/45915040924_bf84d3a8fa_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cXmA1C) (https://flic.kr/p/2cXmA1C)   (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7866/31698252817_507219c3d6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Qi4Qdi) (https://flic.kr/p/Qi4Qdi)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)


Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 07, 2019, 01:47:26 AM
Here is a picture of Charley's pace car (from the Yenko site) The plot thickens.

Although not a Gen 1, here are photos of the trunk of Charlie's former 1,100 mile '70 Z/28 - note the tape. The spatter paint coverage is far better than I've seen on Norwood Gen 1's:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7800/45915040924_bf84d3a8fa_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cXmA1C) (https://flic.kr/p/2cXmA1C)   (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7866/31698252817_507219c3d6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Qi4Qdi) (https://flic.kr/p/Qi4Qdi)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)



The spatter on LOS cars sure was different, like stringers! At least that is what it looks like!
Lloyd, do you have NOS #3 upper mounts with the reference integrated washer similar to what I used? What you have in has the inner metal round structure but not the top washer integrated washer? Back some years past I saw some that had two part #'s molded in the rubber assuming the service replacement served multiple applications.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Danzo on January 07, 2019, 01:49:49 AM
Allright so Reply 51 & 75 show tape at the rear shock hole. More than likely this hole was covered too. When the top of the shock came up through the opening it probably pushed the tape out onto the trunk floor. Now we just have to determine the proper size piece of tape for this and the floor.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 07, 2019, 02:40:17 AM
Allright so Reply 51 & 75 show tape at the rear shock hole. More than likely this hole was covered too. When the top of the shock came up through the opening it probably pushed the tape out onto the trunk floor. Now we just have to determine the proper size piece of tape for this and the floor.

Dan, John Z (John Hinkley) posted some time ago on CRG that in fact the number 3 position subframe bolt holes and the rear shock mounting holes were taped during Fisher Body's water penetration test. Except for Replies 51 & 75 there haven't been other photos of the tape on the rear shock mounting holes from original, untouched cars (I haven't been able to locate them anyway). The photo in Reply 51 suggests the tape covering the shock mounting holes was applied from the under the body (consistent with the position 3 bolt holes). It would be interesting to develop this subject further.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 07, 2019, 04:18:22 AM
Agreed! I'll carefully remove the shock to examine the tape. I'll spritz the edges first in an effort to prevent it from crumbling. 
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 07, 2019, 04:31:15 AM
In regards to the picture of the 70 Camaro, I could not understand why there was only one shock cap used on the left side but nothing on the right.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: dannystarr on January 07, 2019, 06:30:09 AM
Funny I have had people comment to me about the shock top thread cap only being on the left side. NO NEED to have one on the right side as the spare tire is in the way. So luggage, straps etc. will not and cannot get torn because they can't get to that spot. At least that's the reason for '67-'69. Danny
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 08, 2019, 12:55:59 AM
In regards to the picture of the 70 Camaro, I could not understand why there was only one shock cap used on the left side but nothing on the right.
Mike, GM had no need to as the other side was protected by the spare tire so the left side was the only side that needed protection. JohnZ had reviewed that at some time in the past.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: firstgenaddict on January 08, 2019, 01:40:34 PM
Lloyd
Here is one of the rear bushings on your old Black RS Z... the metal is visible above the rubber.

Also a photo of the tape under the bushing.


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/62zLkTO6OVQeoRI54MyI_MEu7gvRvaLlHOg8fWCnniZCVxYVKiB2jySvlP0TwrcAYitR4KRM5MTFXC3XLy4oOz23xopzyulGQvTImGnZlYUQT_6FPjI9VRNJINoTphXyYLGcbPYUCHc4j3rQ9ujuQCliGGfMu76n2TgNrgLpsmZ8dnanbF2fvu33_P8sR7M6_qAkDu2Wg_tCIiKROHJhgobsMjjZVasmwOLgN5o9cSh84T3evTCup4-gRyx4uGqhFaOgrLWEmOHaeHAQMsQrRjJua93kBSkWA2sZ6MViaxL5_pfhwlFdaQt4z9FUPKRzNTqufGi3jw5k0EEcdPAWsW4ri5q8fjE6C4y1fuw8IXbJGJjOOjW3yUIKJs0ZrwmXJrHFMm9YFG0fKyzpKXLIhJilSQ7hBDAzitRqMQxF-Z44fs9_ETJCwx4Fh_T-aljyHPQvqrTlc9h3r7CGxvIeTADp1Y2cM7FHh_i-9IvrPn2JTJ7sZqNEI-8gtEanYhm3FH0G-mBxqUuQevitSZbo6r5F-uuBGEHtk6uRHxTnVRA6h0Q6WfMe_hXLVzajp4BVGV7gLQ9e2BPKEn21c_hT5Wko8GtQHlcEcXb-aGui5Etvme6KbQQqmSLARF3rYs3yygthltOceEfjSpdsyieQL_0gY2YU6hOBTI_hMn0VjnVnOawzW1nd-tKr_JLQ7oQjKiMVB41yhSrK88Uxrkg=w1524-h1143-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CqIlhv4cUnJ5KuM7We1mjpHtmBd0ZZxsEx0YruRLGRlhP1p6KJc5NH7y1RurW27RyBTKxocusZ3yTqfcLUAxegixqzwbWutho5hhllzdQ7C1o7jpNcF1uAlS-nw6nEaBNs4jj-tI8_dWeR_vDPW-D9f1gn_gyyMSWit0ydOMnkIatTcaYaORrbRamL5r0J2jeywOPaPm4ZtZlLk195IJgIkaIQlk4mSiwzYN72AzYqzDns-pQTu_ND_y7ZXXOJ75fRJaVUmX6DsJeRZHwFvDtE64otct0hefvYqcisivyZ0V3MxYaT5OqJ18g4962Q7Si6-GCqOO5XHeMdxNuZHry5sYP0SWuJC5E01JfxfPpx8P4uXDtHuqXFtWSdWCqZWcQBAQUsM_o5mEWfYL6V2Keul6uC0riCtZzIQ2koCLwnFoZyIzF_FjYxbCG2CuJgT7ZL7mdwVo6T1KTs9MFIRBTWLd5x_iG-CJPPrZzTco9WoJCYweCb5LUPCTkQqJz-ruXZt5AjBpckKORcNhsbguKg-UYxBk5RJbSJ-Af1_4OW1anXgSbEH4Rb8PCNeUlpaHuYAtn4E2r0p3Woa8SXaFHt_0qRA5y3zV1LQOJIST6dYh4PWQr8ZdXPAig11YNCt3fYsYlBhqBywZjza5H3hhWOMqs6fUM6nLGofryqsnOifW1f1r99dOeDoRcKmFVV3JwKuhVkGK2YITScxO-A8=w800-h600-no)
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 08, 2019, 03:42:18 PM
Lloyd
Here is one of the rear bushings on your old Black RS Z... the metal is visible above the rubber.

Also a photo of the tape under the bushing.


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/62zLkTO6OVQeoRI54MyI_MEu7gvRvaLlHOg8fWCnniZCVxYVKiB2jySvlP0TwrcAYitR4KRM5MTFXC3XLy4oOz23xopzyulGQvTImGnZlYUQT_6FPjI9VRNJINoTphXyYLGcbPYUCHc4j3rQ9ujuQCliGGfMu76n2TgNrgLpsmZ8dnanbF2fvu33_P8sR7M6_qAkDu2Wg_tCIiKROHJhgobsMjjZVasmwOLgN5o9cSh84T3evTCup4-gRyx4uGqhFaOgrLWEmOHaeHAQMsQrRjJua93kBSkWA2sZ6MViaxL5_pfhwlFdaQt4z9FUPKRzNTqufGi3jw5k0EEcdPAWsW4ri5q8fjE6C4y1fuw8IXbJGJjOOjW3yUIKJs0ZrwmXJrHFMm9YFG0fKyzpKXLIhJilSQ7hBDAzitRqMQxF-Z44fs9_ETJCwx4Fh_T-aljyHPQvqrTlc9h3r7CGxvIeTADp1Y2cM7FHh_i-9IvrPn2JTJ7sZqNEI-8gtEanYhm3FH0G-mBxqUuQevitSZbo6r5F-uuBGEHtk6uRHxTnVRA6h0Q6WfMe_hXLVzajp4BVGV7gLQ9e2BPKEn21c_hT5Wko8GtQHlcEcXb-aGui5Etvme6KbQQqmSLARF3rYs3yygthltOceEfjSpdsyieQL_0gY2YU6hOBTI_hMn0VjnVnOawzW1nd-tKr_JLQ7oQjKiMVB41yhSrK88Uxrkg=w1524-h1143-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CqIlhv4cUnJ5KuM7We1mjpHtmBd0ZZxsEx0YruRLGRlhP1p6KJc5NH7y1RurW27RyBTKxocusZ3yTqfcLUAxegixqzwbWutho5hhllzdQ7C1o7jpNcF1uAlS-nw6nEaBNs4jj-tI8_dWeR_vDPW-D9f1gn_gyyMSWit0ydOMnkIatTcaYaORrbRamL5r0J2jeywOPaPm4ZtZlLk195IJgIkaIQlk4mSiwzYN72AzYqzDns-pQTu_ND_y7ZXXOJ75fRJaVUmX6DsJeRZHwFvDtE64otct0hefvYqcisivyZ0V3MxYaT5OqJ18g4962Q7Si6-GCqOO5XHeMdxNuZHry5sYP0SWuJC5E01JfxfPpx8P4uXDtHuqXFtWSdWCqZWcQBAQUsM_o5mEWfYL6V2Keul6uC0riCtZzIQ2koCLwnFoZyIzF_FjYxbCG2CuJgT7ZL7mdwVo6T1KTs9MFIRBTWLd5x_iG-CJPPrZzTco9WoJCYweCb5LUPCTkQqJz-ruXZt5AjBpckKORcNhsbguKg-UYxBk5RJbSJ-Af1_4OW1anXgSbEH4Rb8PCNeUlpaHuYAtn4E2r0p3Woa8SXaFHt_0qRA5y3zV1LQOJIST6dYh4PWQr8ZdXPAig11YNCt3fYsYlBhqBywZjza5H3hhWOMqs6fUM6nLGofryqsnOifW1f1r99dOeDoRcKmFVV3JwKuhVkGK2YITScxO-A8=w800-h600-no)

James, thanks for posting, the discussion relates to the upper bushing location, between the body and subframe rail, I'm not seeing any metal there? Its acknowledged the lower bushing in the stack, that accepts the bolt and separate washer, shows the integrated washer.   
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: firstgenaddict on January 08, 2019, 05:37:38 PM
Here are some exploded views...
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Sauron327 on January 08, 2019, 06:12:11 PM
I pointed out the evidence of washers in reply #70; you just have to look closely. They sometimes don't show up well because the rubber collapses and swells, thus obscuring them.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 09, 2019, 01:13:17 AM
Lloyd, everything so far is showing the metal washer or whatever we call it against the unitized body. What I have noticed our NOS late 1970's purchased seem to definitely have a thicker metal washer. Skip's 69 survivor has the metal washer also. I believe without that washer you will lose engineering integrity.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4825/32765052808_21bc581029.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RVksFA)

Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Danzo on January 17, 2019, 12:55:03 AM
Any conclusion on what size the tape should be?
Thanks
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 17, 2019, 01:15:08 AM
Here are some exploded views...

James, you may recall the 10 10 car was full of an unusual red dust (inside and out). When I lowered the right side frame rail to replace the fuel line which had been modified at some point to install an electric fuel pump, I also pulled the right side rear sub frame bushings to clean and inspect them and noted there was no metal washer on the upper #3 bushing, only red dust.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 17, 2019, 01:31:35 AM
Any conclusion on what size the tape should be?
Thanks

I just picked up a roll of the 3" wide crepe paper tape from Amazon. About the same quality and appearance as the tape offered by the parts vendors just wider. From the posts here that are based on observations of original tape it seems there is no clear evidence of a consistent or standard tape width used by Fisher Body. It does appear that the tape was likely no less than 2 1/2" wide (and say 4" long), being the same width as the #3 position sub frame bushings. I'm inclined to adopt that width as the one to use however would appreciate other views?

 (https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7875/46717731512_6ffb115e46_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ebhzXw) (https://flic.kr/p/2ebhzXw) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 17, 2019, 03:15:12 AM
 Based on replies #63-66 makes me think it would be approximately 2 1/4"w x 3 1/4" L for the #3 hole. The important measurement would be width (of the tape roll) and the length would be wherever it was cut from the dispenser.  Danny's reply #63 seems to be the best indicator so far. If it were me I would cut the 3" width down to 2 1/4" after cutting off about a 3" length.
  I've been giving this topic a lot of thought in regards to what the roll width is. Given the line worker(s) had to pull a piece of tape off a dispenser and place over the holes, while in a moving environment, the last thing you want to do it trim tape. So, it should be set up where you only need to worry about one of two variables (being width and length) and that would be tape length. With that in mind I would think the tape width would be such that it would be easy to place up in the flat section at the shock hole to cover that area entirely (with the proper length of course) and yet it would also be wide enough to cover the #3 hole. And that shock area width is 2" (measured on my 67 coupe). So, the only thing the worker had to do is pull off a correct length and slap it on. Based on Danny's measurements, I would cut the width to 2 1/4".

Mike
 
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 18, 2019, 12:35:48 AM
Based on replies #63-66 makes me think it would be approximately 2 1/4"w x 3 1/4" L for the #3 hole. The important measurement would be width (of the tape roll) and the length would be wherever it was cut from the dispenser.  Danny's reply #63 seems to be the best indicator so far. If it were me I would cut the 3" width down to 2 1/4" after cutting off about a 3" length.
  I've been giving this topic a lot of thought in regards to what the roll width is. Given the line worker(s) had to pull a piece of tape off a dispenser and place over the holes, while in a moving environment, the last thing you want to do it trim tape. So, it should be set up where you only need to worry about one of two variables (being width and length) and that would be tape length. With that in mind I would think the tape width would be such that it would be easy to place up in the flat section at the shock hole to cover that area entirely (with the proper length of course) and yet it would also be wide enough to cover the #3 hole. And that shock area width is 2" (measured on my 67 coupe). So, the only thing the worker had to do is pull off a correct length and slap it on. Based on Danny's measurements, I would cut the width to 2 1/4".

Mike
 
Mike brings up some good points! When our car was judged via the 5000 point system and on the lift there was no deduction concerning the tape so bottom line the most important thing is to have tape over those holes and 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" or 3" I don't believe it will make a huge difference. Just go with the info supplied here and utilize what seems the best choice.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 18, 2019, 02:14:32 AM
Based on replies #63-66 makes me think it would be approximately 2 1/4"w x 3 1/4" L for the #3 hole. The important measurement would be width (of the tape roll) and the length would be wherever it was cut from the dispenser.  Danny's reply #63 seems to be the best indicator so far. If it were me I would cut the 3" width down to 2 1/4" after cutting off about a 3" length.
  I've been giving this topic a lot of thought in regards to what the roll width is. Given the line worker(s) had to pull a piece of tape off a dispenser and place over the holes, while in a moving environment, the last thing you want to do it trim tape. So, it should be set up where you only need to worry about one of two variables (being width and length) and that would be tape length. With that in mind I would think the tape width would be such that it would be easy to place up in the flat section at the shock hole to cover that area entirely (with the proper length of course) and yet it would also be wide enough to cover the #3 hole. And that shock area width is 2" (measured on my 67 coupe). So, the only thing the worker had to do is pull off a correct length and slap it on. Based on Danny's measurements, I would cut the width to 2 1/4".

Mike
 
Mike brings up some good points! When our car was judged via the 5000 point system and on the lift there was no deduction concerning the tape so bottom line the most important thing is to have tape over those holes and 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" or 3" I don't believe it will make a huge difference. Just go with the info supplied here and utilize what seems the best choice.

Chick I appreciate the insight however my primary motivation is to understand Fisher Body's practice as I'm not convinced the undisclosed judging criteria in this area is even well developed. Many great cars have undergone Legends judging and I have to believe some have used the parts vendor tape which we can safely conclude is incorrect. I also like Mike's logic as its well reasoned.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 19, 2019, 02:52:51 AM
Based on replies #63-66 makes me think it would be approximately 2 1/4"w x 3 1/4" L for the #3 hole. The important measurement would be width (of the tape roll) and the length would be wherever it was cut from the dispenser.  Danny's reply #63 seems to be the best indicator so far. If it were me I would cut the 3" width down to 2 1/4" after cutting off about a 3" length.
  I've been giving this topic a lot of thought in regards to what the roll width is. Given the line worker(s) had to pull a piece of tape off a dispenser and place over the holes, while in a moving environment, the last thing you want to do it trim tape. So, it should be set up where you only need to worry about one of two variables (being width and length) and that would be tape length. With that in mind I would think the tape width would be such that it would be easy to place up in the flat section at the shock hole to cover that area entirely (with the proper length of course) and yet it would also be wide enough to cover the #3 hole. And that shock area width is 2" (measured on my 67 coupe). So, the only thing the worker had to do is pull off a correct length and slap it on. Based on Danny's measurements, I would cut the width to 2 1/4".

Mike
 
Mike brings up some good points! When our car was judged via the 5000 point system and on the lift there was no deduction concerning the tape so bottom line the most important thing is to have tape over those holes and 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" or 3" I don't believe it will make a huge difference. Just go with the info supplied here and utilize what seems the best choice.

Chick I appreciate the insight however my primary motivation is to understand Fisher Body's practice as I'm not convinced the undisclosed judging criteria in this area is even well developed. Many great cars have undergone Legends judging and I have to believe some have used the parts vendor tape which we can safely conclude is incorrect. I also like Mike's logic as its well reasoned.
The practice was quite simple, to cover the hole with tape! It seems to be evident that sizes varied and that might have been from someone pulling a couple tabs of tape off a role. Were different widths of tape used during different time frames? I gave a view as you asked but sorry I brought up judging. The only thing I can conclude is the tape sizes aforementioned give a much better understanding of the sizes used but in no way supply enough info for any judging criteria other than a judge checking the process of covering the hole was completed. 
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Danzo on January 20, 2019, 05:26:06 PM
Maybe JohnZ has some insight.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 20, 2019, 05:38:45 PM
 This week I'll remove the shock to closely examine the tape and will post pictures.

Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 21, 2019, 12:29:09 AM
This week I'll remove the shock to closely examine the tape and will post pictures.

Mike

That would be great Mike.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: firstgenaddict on January 21, 2019, 07:12:52 PM
Just wondering would they have not used the same tape for covering the emblem holes on the deck lid for the cars with double sets of holes?

 
FWIW say for example your sample piece were 4" x 3"  unless through a large sample analysis you could determine the machine direction VS cross (web) direction of manufacture for the tape it would be difficult to determine your actual tape width. 
With enough samples measured in which one measurement was quite consistently the same it would be pretty easy to say with a reasonable degree of accuracy that X is the width.
With a large enough sample size the width may be able to be
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on January 23, 2019, 02:36:28 AM
Mike, your vehicle to report tape width is that your LOS 67 survivor?
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 23, 2019, 02:41:52 AM
Hi Chick,

 Yes. I will get that done this week. I loaned my floor jack out and of course, I don't have it when I need it.

Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 24, 2019, 04:53:35 AM
 Attached are pictures of the shock tower tape. As expected, as soon as the shock was loosened, the tape began to crumble. What I also found was a hard adhesive stuck to the tape and body that came from a thick band which was applied around the inner neck of the plate. I attribute this to being the sealer shown in the 67 AIM UPC4-B3 item 15. This sealer spread out along the tape that was stuck to the body and sealed it to the body in many places. Other areas began to flake off when I touched it. As you can see in the pictures, the areas not covered by the shock plate stayed protected by the tape as indicated by the black areas. In one picture I have white arrows pointing to tape edges of tape still stuck to the sealer.  I had to resize some pictures to meet the file size requirements so image detail is reduced. 
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 24, 2019, 04:54:55 AM
More pictures
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 24, 2019, 11:40:56 PM
Cool archeology, thanks for posting. I take it there wasn’t enough of the tape in tact to meaure any of the dimensions?
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 25, 2019, 12:43:46 AM
 A lot crumbled and a lot is still on the body due to the hardened sealer. The black area that was protected I would use as measurement plus factor in the bolt hole openings.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 25, 2019, 05:24:37 PM
  I carefully examined the shock area and came to the conclusion the tape size is approximately 4" in length to cover bolt hole to bolt hole. Based on Danny's measurements of a prime sample and the fact that I do believe the tape width used for the #3 hole and shock tower was the same and off the same dispenser, when I eventually restore the 67 LOS car I will make the tape width (this will be the fixed tape roll width) at 2 1/4" and the length 4" for the shock holes and 3 1/4" for the #3 hole.  I agree though it would be nice to have more samples to compare to but considering how few tape remnants exist, we can only go with a best guess conclusion.
   This has been a really interesting discussion!
Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: cook_dw on January 25, 2019, 05:55:02 PM
Lol I am sorry but I find it funny that we as Camaro enthusiasts have become so anal retentive that we have a thread 3 pages long about tape on a bushing..  And yes I have been following along with interest about the type of tape used and orientation etc..  lol
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on January 25, 2019, 06:02:09 PM
  LOL......yea.....my wife recently said something along those lines when I told her I am going into the garage to examine 50 year old tape.
She jokingly said how I never examined her in such detail when we first met in 1970. I told her "well....back then I didn't see too well so I used Braille a lot"  8)
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 26, 2019, 12:38:46 AM
Lol I am sorry but I find it funny that we as Camaro enthusiasts have become so anal retentive that we have a thread 3 pages long about tape on a bushing..  And yes I have been following along with interest about the type of tape used and orientation etc..  lol

Seems perfectly normal to me...LOL
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on January 26, 2019, 01:22:25 AM
  I carefully examined the shock area and came to the conclusion the tape size is approximately 4" in length to cover bolt hole to bolt hole. Based on Danny's measurements of a prime sample and the fact that I do believe the tape width used for the #3 hole and shock tower was the same and off the same dispenser, when I eventually restore the 67 LOS car I will make the tape width (this will be the fixed tape roll width) at 2 1/4" and the length 4" for the shock holes and 3 1/4" for the #3 hole.  I agree though it would be nice to have more samples to compare to but considering how few tape remnants exist, we can only go with a best guess conclusion.
   This has been a really interesting discussion!
Mike

Mike, thanks for your good work and contributions on this subject.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on March 10, 2019, 03:39:12 PM
Decided to drop the sub-frame to replace and correct the narrow body mount tape with the wider tape I sourced (see Reply #90). I cut the pieces to 4" lengths then applied a light coat of 3M Super 77 spray adhesive to ensure a lasting bond as I had noticed the narrow tape was starting to peel. The adhesive worked well on the delicate crepe paper tape backing. I haven't tackled taping the shock mounts yet however will get to it later in my restoration.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7885/47279741652_8029c70be5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2f2X2Zw) (https://flic.kr/p/2f2X2Zw)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7883/32390355687_042df49c7a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rme3hp) (https://flic.kr/p/Rme3hp)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7803/46609104174_1796679c73_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2e1FQQo) (https://flic.kr/p/2e1FQQo)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on March 12, 2019, 08:30:11 PM
Did u obtain correct upper mounts Lloyd’s?
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on March 12, 2019, 10:28:54 PM
Chick, although I'm not convinced the integrated washer style cushion is the only correct style it does seem to follow normative practice based on feedback and findings of some members so I'm going to make the switch much like I did with the wheel well plugs.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on March 17, 2019, 04:47:23 AM
Re-installed the subframe.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7903/46676458394_eac93b99d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2e7D3U3) (https://flic.kr/p/2e7D3U3)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7813/33523929788_ae0150bf27_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/T5oUns) (https://flic.kr/p/T5oUns)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4812/46483397265_bed3085e7a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dPzyxT) (https://flic.kr/p/2dPzyxT) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: BillG on March 17, 2019, 02:25:23 PM
very neat!
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on March 23, 2019, 07:14:47 PM
Re-installed the subframe.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7903/46676458394_eac93b99d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2e7D3U3) (https://flic.kr/p/2e7D3U3)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7813/33523929788_ae0150bf27_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/T5oUns) (https://flic.kr/p/T5oUns)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4812/46483397265_bed3085e7a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dPzyxT) (https://flic.kr/p/2dPzyxT) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Lloyd, orient donut that the white is not seen as that is a later service replacement.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on March 25, 2019, 01:34:31 AM
How do you know that Chick? Is there a thread on the subject ?
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on March 25, 2019, 09:58:26 AM
How do you know that Chick? Is there a thread on the subject ?
Do I need a thread? Have u ever seen that on a survivor as I have not and looked at these white being sold on eBay years ago and determined the white being added clearly showed service replacement but again orientation would hide that aspect. My belief is it was added as the part # was used for other applications but never went any further investigation. Simple fix and only suggestion.
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on March 25, 2019, 09:01:14 PM
How do you know that Chick? Is there a thread on the subject ?
Do I need a thread? Have u ever seen that on a survivor as I have not and looked at these white being sold on eBay years ago and determined the white being added clearly showed service replacement but again orientation would hide that aspect. My belief is it was added as the part # was used for other applications but never went any further investigation. Simple fix and only suggestion.

Chick, just wanting to understand the source of your information, assuming perhaps you were referencing a CRG thread or other notable work on the subject as there is nothing published by CRG on subframe cushion markings that I could locate. Most of the original / survivor cushions I have seen were deteriorated to the point where I could not reliably determine what markings they came with originally. Even if I could my sample size was not large enough to be authoritative. Only a couple of the NOS cushions I installed have the WHITE manufacturers mark but they do include the embossed PN#. Could this be a unique practice by a this cushion supplier? As for judging standards I've not heard of anyone receiving a deduction for using GM service replacement cushions which I assume are routinely used as the originals aren't restorable and mostly deform, collapse and sometimes crack after decades of exposure and compression.   
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: 68camaroz28 on March 26, 2019, 10:40:34 AM
How do you know that Chick? Is there a thread on the subject ?
Do I need a thread? Have u ever seen that on a survivor as I have not and looked at these white being sold on eBay years ago and determined the white being added clearly showed service replacement but again orientation would hide that aspect. My belief is it was added as the part # was used for other applications but never went any further investigation. Simple fix and only suggestion.

Chick, just wanting to understand the source of your information, assuming perhaps you were referencing a CRG thread or other notable work on the subject as there is nothing published by CRG on subframe cushion markings that I could locate. Most of the original / survivor cushions I have seen were deteriorated to the point where I could not reliably determine what markings they came with originally. Even if I could my sample size was not large enough to be authoritative. Only a couple of the NOS cushions I installed have the WHITE manufacturers mark but they do include the embossed PN#. Could this be a unique practice by a this cushion supplier? As for judging standards I've not heard of anyone receiving a deduction for using GM service replacement cushions which I assume are routinely used as the originals aren't restorable and mostly deform, collapse and sometimes crack after decades of exposure and compression.   

Just my thoughts Lloyd and yes one has to use service replacements but as you know some service replacements fit the bill and others changed looks and do not. Larry Christensen could best answer for the 5000 pt judging but I will stick my neck out and say with the white showing there would be some small deduction. Orient and no deduction for sure, which was my point. No worries!
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Edgemontvillage on June 26, 2020, 01:14:17 PM
Although there aren't many surviving examples of original tape to evidence the exact details of the factory practice of sealing the rear shock plate mounting holes and cutout prior to the water penetration test, I concluded rightly or wrongly that based on what evidence does exist and examples of tape used elsewhere on our cars for the water test (sub frame mounts) and for other, sundry applications (fuel sender and interior console), its likely the tape would have been a crepe style. I decided that 4 - 4 1/2" long and 2" wide was needed in order to cover the bolt mounting hole and cutout, mostly due to the awkward angles, so I cut a piece to size then, after applying sealer (dum-dum) around the bottom of the shock plate, bolted it in.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49871499156_1e6fd2b3cf_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iYYtcJ) (https://flic.kr/p/2iYYtcJ)   (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Crepe tape applied over rear shock plate holes.
  (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50046253092_de0de9915e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jfq8sC) (https://flic.kr/p/2jfq8sC)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Sealer applied to the back of the shock plate prior to installation (I actually used about 1/2 as much as is shown in the photo)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50045430153_3b8f6d0a1b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jfkUQ2) (https://flic.kr/p/2jfkUQ2)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)

Restored Shock plate installed (followed by the original bumpers)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50045995386_af03534a93_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jfoNRq) (https://flic.kr/p/2jfoNRq)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50045430198_a973da0e96_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jfkUQN) (https://flic.kr/p/2jfkUQN)  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156633854@N02/)
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: firstgenaddict on June 29, 2020, 12:41:43 PM
As long as we were talking about the attachment of the subframe and under body... anyone notice the flat spring steel push clip?
Most people leave these off because they either do not know about them or laziness in sourcing them the use of the flat "speednut" or push clip makes installing the rad support a  near effortless operation for one person.
Above Bushing was sourced from CHQ - They are the correct size although there are no markings on the sleeved bushings, I can't rememeber whether some of the GM marked bushings came from Rick's or if they were ones I had collected, I know that the later replacement rad support bushing is not the correct diameter, and the reproductions one typically sees are also not the correct diameter.   
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dxF3q1oFeg7226Hmdm2bT59at1BcrtU1znfkeffCY2wKBltjyq2Mw8PkLCmb4Vwq0gMTS-QR6UsV1RlmYlrhWfHmzlbfhPtFZt8Z2S5D1xIymGRWCfD76nQTlzyJjWuD0QwWA3ipHV1IyAA7kNbU2QDA=w500-h375-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: x66 714 on June 29, 2020, 02:33:38 PM
As long as we were talking about the attachment of the subframe and under body... anyone notice the flat spring steel push clip?
Most people leave these off because they either do not know about them or laziness in sourcing them the use of the flat "speednut" or push clip makes installing the rad support a  near effortless operation for one person.
Above Bushing was sourced from CHQ - They are the correct size although there are no markings on the sleeved bushings, I can't rememeber whether some of the GM marked bushings came from Rick's or if they were ones I had collected, I know that the later replacement rad support bushing is not the correct diameter, and the reproductions one typically sees are also not the correct diameter.   
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dxF3q1oFeg7226Hmdm2bT59at1BcrtU1znfkeffCY2wKBltjyq2Mw8PkLCmb4Vwq0gMTS-QR6UsV1RlmYlrhWfHmzlbfhPtFZt8Z2S5D1xIymGRWCfD76nQTlzyJjWuD0QwWA3ipHV1IyAA7kNbU2QDA=w500-h375-no?authuser=0)
I can't seem to find CRQ, Camaro Head Quarters. Do you have a link to them?...Joe
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Sauron327 on June 29, 2020, 05:06:28 PM
CHQ is Classic Headqurters, and often offer the better parts than other repro companies. http://www.classichq.com/
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: x66 714 on June 29, 2020, 08:17:55 PM
CHQ is Classic Headqurters, and often offer the better parts than other repro companies. http://www.classichq.com/
Thank you...Joe
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: bowtie68iho on November 13, 2020, 01:04:29 PM
I have more info that might help this older post on the correct width of the original body mount sealing tape used on the assembly line to seal #3 body mounts and rear shocks for leak testing. 

I just obtained a copy of the GM Maintenance Products & Standard Stock Catalog 907 (P&A 24) dated March 1970.  Attached, is a photo of the sealing tape listed on page 11 in the Body Service Items section.  It appears that GM sold only two widths of sealing tape as service items, in both cloth and paper material: 1 inch and 2-1/2 inch.  Because GM most likely wouldn't waste money having a different width sealing tape on the assembly line than what they sold over the counter, we can probably assume that the service tape was identical to the factory assembly line tape.  Based on the anecdotal evidence of the various postings on this topic, along with photos of surviving black paper tape portions greater than 1 inch in width in both dimensions, one can probably conclude that the tape used for the leak test body sealing was #5786759, a black paper back tape, 2-1/2 inches wide.

Bernie
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: Mike S on November 13, 2020, 02:48:27 PM
 Great info, Bernie!
 In checking that P/N in GM's Wiki, that usage goes back to the late 50's. Here is one example (it is shown as 'special service') http://www.gmpartswiki.com/getpage?pageid=8056
 I'm sure it shrinks over time which is why survivors seem to measure 2 1/4" thereabouts, especially with constant wetting and drying over the years.
  I agree with your conclusion about it being the same as production line usage.

Mike
Title: Re: Body Mount Tape - Width
Post by: KurtS on April 21, 2021, 07:51:15 PM
Nice original with the good shots of the tap. https://www.ebay.com/itm/203361980412