CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: crossboss on December 12, 2018, 04:57:48 PM
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Boys,
Hope I'm not repeating an old topic...Did Chevy (or aftermarket) make a Big Block Cross-Ram intake?
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The aftermarket made them, I know that edelbrock had had the side by side cross ram. Though i dont think any aftermarket company made a GM style cross ram for a big block. Then to my knowledge Chevy never did it. As NASCAR had banned multi carb set ups in the late 50's/early 60's and then with the big AMA ban of 63 there wasn't a need for a cross ram setup for a big block as Chevy at that point was not "actively" in racing.
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No cross rams for big blocks that I am aware of, but tunnel rams - of course.
Look back at old drag racing photos with big blocks. Inline - not offset - carbs were the thing. Find some old photos of Grumpy or Dick Harrell.
Cross rams look impressive visually but can be hard to tune and generally are not street friendly. Yes I know there are guys that run them. It’s been proven on the dyno that with a little 302, a single 800 cfm or larger carb will perform as good or better than a cross ram setup.
My experience with multiple carb setups has mostly been on the old W motor Chevy 409s and Fords with over 460 cubic inches. And the Fords were in jet boats, not cars.
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Thanks boys for the info. My plan was to build a Big Block with a Cross-Ram for a potential T/A type of car. And yes, I am very familiar with tuning a Cross-Ram intake, as I used to own a T/A Boss 302 with the 'Cross-Boss' intake and Autolite Inline carb for street and vintage racing. Anyways, maybe a Weber set up on the Big Block might be a better way to go?
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It would look better too.
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Yep, can't argue with that statement. Webers DO look cool on anything!
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A retired GM Engineer that was directly involved in the mid to late 60's tells me
the original "intent" was to see how much if any HorsePower some of the then available
aftermarket "CrossRam" Intake(s) for Big Block Chevy would make...
They started with one that had 2 Individual plenums and it did NOT work well due to pulses...
So in doing development at GM by a GM Engineer on a Chevrolet Big Block with a Crossram
it was found the larger the common plenum area the better, ending up with a large single plenum
but with the horizontal tuned length individual runners on the floor of the plenum...
Having tuned length intake runners was key for power... and
a single large common plenum to "manage" the pulses without disturbing carburetor fuel air distribution.
-BUT- no "desired" application was identified for use on the Big Block Chevy...
Can Am "went" all Injection to achieve tuned runner length and required no plenum, not carburetion...
So... the "learnings" and "development" done by GM Engineering on the Big Block Chevy
for an under-hood tuned length runner common plenum carburetion Intake manifold was "re-applied"
for the Small Block 302 Camaro Z-28 Trans Am Racing CrossRam, where there was an "application".
There may have been aftermarket Big Block Chevrolet CrossRam Intakes produced,
but in testing done by GM Engineering none were found to be actual "functional" power producers...
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A retired GM Engineer that was directly involved in the mid to late 60's tells me
the original "intent" was to see how much if any HorsePower some of the then available
aftermarket "CrossRam" Intake(s) for Big Block Chevy would make...
They started with one that had 2 Individual plenums and it did NOT work well due to pulses...
So in doing development at GM by a GM Engineer on a Chevrolet Big Block with a Crossram
it was found the larger the common plenum area the better, ending up with a large single plenum
but with the horizontal tuned length individual runners on the floor of the plenum...
Having tuned length intake runners was key for power... and
a single large common plenum to "manage" the pulses without disturbing carburetor fuel air distribution.
-BUT- no "desired" application was identified for use on the Big Block Chevy...
Can Am "went" all Injection to achieve tuned runner length and required no plenum, not carburetion...
So... the "learnings" and "development" done by GM Engineering on the Big Block Chevy
for an under-hood tuned length runner common plenum carburetion Intake manifold was "re-applied"
for the Small Block 302 Camaro Z-28 Trans Am Racing CrossRam, where there was an "application".
There may have been aftermarket Big Block Chevrolet CrossRam Intakes produced,
but in testing done by GM Engineering none were found to be actual "functional" power producers...
Mopar had excellent results with their Cross Ram manifolds, as did Ford. That said, When I ran the Cross-Boss intake and Inline carb with the large port heads on a little Boss 302 along with the factory experimental T/A camshaft, low end torque is well... as you can image, non existent. Idle quality will need to be high to maintain some velocity with that big plenum, long runners, and huge ports. I also did some internal 'modifications' on the plenum by removing the bumps and sharp edges to help maintain port to port consistency, and from fuel puddling. Also, off idle pump shot will need to be at its max to avoid any lean/bogs. Lastly, it was defiantly a learning curve no doubt. Some tuning was a hit or miss, and eventually I found the sweet spot and it worked well.
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Agree, they can make power, but understanding is ( not that I "know" ) that a large single common plenum
it what it takes to make a CrossRam "work" as the 426 Hemi, and others had.
Having to fit beneath a closed stock hood was a "design driving limitation" imposed by sanctioning rules.
Unaware of if there was a large single common plenum CrossRam produced for the Big Block Chevy.
It is my hope to avoid sounding as if "I know"... Simply an enthusiast intrigued by and interesting question.
Was just sharing what information had came up during a discussion with a retired Engineer.
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Trust me, if it was possible to make a big block effectively generate good power with a cross ram - it would have already been done.
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Agree, they can make power, but understanding is ( not that I "know" ) that a large single common plenum
it what it takes to make a CrossRam "work" as the 426 Hemi, and others had.
Having to fit beneath a closed stock hood was a "design driving limitation" imposed by sanctioning rules.
Unaware of if there was a large single common plenum CrossRam produced for the Big Block Chevy.
It is my hope to avoid sounding as if "I know"... Simply an enthusiast intrigued by and interesting question.
Was just sharing what information had came up during a discussion with a retired Engineer.
Absolutely correct. The 'under the hood' limitations were the issues with Cross Ram intakes. Air and fuel does not like to travel sideways to the intake port. I appreciate everyones input! Never the less, too bad there were never really any good Big Block Chevy Ram-Box type of intakes….that would have been a neat set up on an L-88 road racer!
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Boys,
Apparently, the only one I could find was the older Edelbrock X-C96 Cross-Ram for a Big Block.
Click on pics to enlarge.
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Bottom view.
Click on pic to enlarge.
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In my opinion it would take a lot of velocity to make that intake work.
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In my opinion it would take a lot of velocity to make that intake work.
You are correct. Re-read my experience with the 'Cross-Boss' intake. To achieve some velocity, a high idle is required.
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Boys,
Apparently, the only one I could find was the older Edelbrock X-C96 Cross-Ram for a Big Block.
Click on pics to enlarge.
I figured this would be the case, I have seen those before at various swap meets over the years. It seems the big block never had as much aftermarket support that built various carb combos. You see the injection, typical dual quads and tunnel rams. There was a super rare 4x2 Man-a-fre setup and i have never seen a non Corvette tri power set up for a big block, though i have never really looked.
Currently only have small blocks and outside of my Camaro and C10, everything has multiple carbs. Have dual fours, tri power and 6x2's. I really enjoy playing around with the multi carb setups
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Boys,
Apparently, the only one I could find was the older Edelbrock X-C96 Cross-Ram for a Big Block.
Click on pics to enlarge.
I figured this would be the case, I have seen those before at various swap meets over the years. It seems the big block never had as much aftermarket support that built various carb combos. You see the injection, typical dual quads and tunnel rams. There was a super rare 4x2 Man-a-fre setup and i have never seen a non Corvette tri power set up for a big block, though i have never really looked.
Currently only have small blocks and outside of my Camaro and C10, everything has multiple carbs. Have dual fours, tri power and 6x2's. I really enjoy playing around with the multi carb setups
I agree with you on that. I really dig the 'exotica' of unique intake systems…especially the rare experimental stuff. It sets you apart from the rest of the crowd when you lift the hood for the local street strokes to have a peek.
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Boys,
Apparently, the only one I could find was the older Edelbrock X-C96 Cross-Ram for a Big Block.
Click on pics to enlarge.
I figured this would be the case, I have seen those before at various swap meets over the years. It seems the big block never had as much aftermarket support that built various carb combos. You see the injection, typical dual quads and tunnel rams. There was a super rare 4x2 Man-a-fre setup and i have never seen a non Corvette tri power set up for a big block, though i have never really looked.
Currently only have small blocks and outside of my Camaro and C10, everything has multiple carbs. Have dual fours, tri power and 6x2's. I really enjoy playing around with the multi carb setups
I agree with you on that. I really dig the 'exotica' of unique intake systems…especially the rare experimental stuff. It sets you apart from the rest of the crowd when you lift the hood for the local street strokes to have a peek.
Yes I agree, nowadays though its always fun to go a cars and coffee meet and see the people with their new cars be completely stumped at a multi carb setup. Most just assume its Hillborne type injection when seeing 4x2's or 6x2's. Last time I went to one of these I watched two guys around my age (I'm 26) be completely baffled at a Pontiac with a tri power, car owner wasn't around so I went over and explained how the progressive linkage all works.