CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: 68 Ragtop on August 02, 2018, 02:15:25 AM
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(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7095/6851529162_c2bc17687e_h.jpg)
124678N336772
Ok, this is a bit of a trick question. I know the stamp is a fake. I am just curious if it was done so bad on purpose to prove a point, or if they think it looks genuine. It is on an insurance company display vehicle
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What block is it, the later “short pad” block? Have a wider view pic?
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Yup, it's a later block that someone restamped.
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In my opinion, just looking at the only the stampings, they are fairly convincing.
Always use as much information as you can when evaluating a block and have the pad cleaned off - no paint or corrosion. Look at the font and spacing. Also look for broach marks, the block casting number and block casting date if possible. Deck height and the complete block to head mounting surface may need to be scrutinized (head off the block) in some cases.
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This really is convincing. What helps it is the tops of all the numbers and letters are a little light in stamping. Just like some originals I have seen. Broaching doesn't seem to be there as there are small horizontal lines. Looks pretty darn real... Danny
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IF compared to other stamps of the same suffix from the same day would it exhibit similar characteristics?
This is the key...
ALSO there is THIS...
Broaches are machine tools and as such wear at a pretty standard rate, this will give each broached block a distinct scraping pattern on it's surface and over the course of a given period one could determine if the broach marks exhibited the proper patterns of wear.
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IF compared to other stamps of the same suffix from the same day would it exhibit similar characteristics?
This is the key...
To a certain extent, yes. Same day/same suffix stamps are usually very similar, but that would not have to always be true, especially on high volume engines. Never say never.
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Never say never except to say:
NEVER speak in ABSOLUTES. ;D
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I am pretty sure they did a poor job on purpose. This is the Farmers insurance car that is half stock and half modified and they use it at major car shows as a display. maybe some of you have seen it.
I have seen it in person, but never realized they used the modified side to show poor workmanship vs the stock side to show correct. The left side is the original side, and the right side is the modified side. Since the pad stamp is on the right side, they must be showing fake stamps. They also show the gang stamper they used.
This 1968 Chevrolet Camaro RS convertible was built at the State Farm Vehicle Research Facility as a half-and-half “Jekyll and Hyde” car for training purposes and PR display. The driver’s side of the car is a high-quality restoration to correct factory-stock specs. The passenger side is a customized street machine with lots of flashy aftermarket parts and custom bodywork, but deliberately less-exacting craftsmanship.
In addition to serving as an eye-catching car-show display piece, this car was built by State Farm employees who love their cars, enjoy restoring cars and have fun working on cars both personally and professionally. This 1968 Camaro is being used to educate State Farm field agents on the special challenges of assigning proper values to collector cars and owner-modified vehicles. This knowledge enables the agents to accurately assess value and correctly underwrite such special-case vehicles.
There is also another mistake on the car that I think they did NOT do on purpose. The RS side of the car is missing the proper moldings, but the modified side has it.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/statefarm/sets/72157629103097163 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/statefarm/sets/72157629103097163)
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To me the broach marks do not look right. Too clean, like the cutter was brand new. But if you had not told me I would be fooled.
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Bad broach marks, wrong size pad, and stamps not next to each other horizontal. Other than that, they could have made a pretty convincing re-stamp. The knowledge and tools are out there.
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factory broach marks DO NOT run horizontally; they are always front to rear (or rear to front your choice).. :)
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Gary is right, modern milling machings dont run like the GM ones did. They ran from one end of the block to the other, the ones that I have seen at engine shops run in a circle and would make lines running from the manifold to the oil pan like these
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Guys,
Yes the broach marks on the block are wrong. Nobody is arguing that.
The STAMP is fairly convincing.
Now - back to your regular programming.
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The STAMP is fairly convincing.
Yes it is. I am just surprised that an insurance company has a block stamp kit. This picture is described as "Rented factory engine block stamp kit" Why do they know where to rent a block stamp kit and what else do they use it for? Anyone surprised you can rent these?
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7211/6997653275_e2dc25949a_b.jpg)
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Hemmings used to have people advertise you could rent a stamper
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Restamp kits "Like the General Did It" have been advertised in "Vette Vues" magazine (and others) for almost 40 years; this is nothing new. Where there's money to be made, people re-stamp. :-\
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Glad to see you post John.
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There's a guy that shows up at Carlisle events with a truck load of blocks. He will stamp them while you wait for any car you want.
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Guys,
Yes the broach marks on the block are wrong. Nobody is arguing that.
The STAMP is fairly convincing.
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This entire thread has confused me... WHY would there be discussion on the STAMP when it's obvious the broach marks are gone, that the block deck has been tampered with, re-machined, etc?? The STAMPING is fake, regardless of how correct the stamps themselves might look...
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Gary, think outside of the box. Yes we know the stamp is a fake. Broach marks are only part of the story.
The quality of the stamp would fool a lot of people and that’s NOT good!
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As JohnZ quite clearly pointed out, there have ALWAYS been 'good accurate RESTAMPS'... but they are still restamps. (The Corvette world and NCRS judging of 'high end' cars is a good place to check that out!).. :) One should not look at ONLY the characters in the stamping to determine this, but analyze ALL aspects of the engine/car/stamping/etc to make a determination. IMO, having 'accurate stamps' is no more convincing as a single indicator than having a block with a good cast date!
note: Original broach marks are the best indicator I've found when all else appears good.
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This entire thread has confused me... WHY would there be discussion on the STAMP when it's obvious the broach marks are gone, that the block deck has been tampered with, re-machined, etc?? The STAMPING is fake, regardless of how correct the stamps themselves might look...
Sorry to confuse you. Perhaps you didn't read the entire first post?
The whole purpose was to discuss the stamps themselves and how they can be easily obtained. This stamp is used as an educational tool for insurance appraisers. It's fake on purpose.
Why would you even discuss broach marks when it is obvious the pad is of a completely different engine generation?
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Gary you obviously didn’t read the whole thread.
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forest because of the trees..
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As JohnZ quite clearly pointed out, there have ALWAYS been 'good accurate RESTAMPS'... but they are still restamps.
Well, he didn't actually say they were 'good' or 'accurate', just that restamping kits have been marketed for many years, to make money.
And agree with Darrell, great to see John active here.
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We are ALL extremely happy to see John active on the forum!