CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: william on June 20, 2018, 04:37:36 PM
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28/302778138290?hash=item467efbbeb2:g:enAAAOSwsEhbKlJe&vxp=mtr
124379L529083
First line of text from the ad:
Here we have an all original three owner 1969 Z28 survivor with 66,045 miles on it.
Ballsy claim for a non-original drive train car that has been repainted. Missing AIR system, wrong exhaust manifolds, alternator, air cleaner lid, rear wheels, grille incorrectly painted. Ad claims deluxe seat belts; pic shows standard belts.
Wonder why there is no sound deadener on those 'original' rear quarter panels?
For that matter there are very few cars in this original condition in existence.
You be the judge.
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Just sent seller a message saying, far from original. Told him I could find about 20 things wrong just by the pictures. Also said, how can it be matching numbers when the block has VIN 9L530071 and the car is VIN 9L529083?
- Warren
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I am waiting for the day when one of these "numbers matching cars", has a motor in it that one of our members has been searching for.
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If it had white interior I would still have to have it.
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Sent a message saying to be careful of misinformation. And that there are many things incorrect in the ad. His response below.. Danny
Do you actually know anything about L code cars? What many things. If you are not interested in the car why would you be emailing me? if you are interested send me your email address and I’ll educate you on L code Z28’s
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From the ad:
This Z28 is a very, very rare early 1969 Van Nuys California built “L” code car.
There were 31,163 '69 Camaros built at Van Nuys; not rare at all. It is also a late production car, built on or about April 11, 1969.
No mention of a Body Broadcast Copy commonly found on Van Nuys built Camaros. No original docs. No VIN stamped drive train components. Axle was cast in January, 73 days prior to estimated final assembly. Where is proof this is really a Z/28?
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Straight back headrests on an April car, far from original.
- Warren
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Ebay listing header says
"Matching Numbers DZ302 with documented pedigree"
Hmm
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From the ad:
This Z28 is a very, very rare early 1969 Van Nuys California built “L” code car.
There were 31,163 '69 Camaros built at Van Nuys; not rare at all. It is also a late production car, built on or about April 11, 1969.
No mention of a Body Broadcast Copy commonly found on Van Nuys built Camaros. No original docs. No VIN stamped drive train components. Axle was cast in January, 73 days prior to estimated final assembly. Where is proof this is really a Z/28?
Right there is how it is a rare early car. It morphed forward in time to April ( probably April Fools day) got built and returned back to the “early” assembly line?! It is California, an L car, you know? And anything can happen in la la land. And I got a stop watching all these “ transformer” type movies! Yeck.
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Take a look at the pulleys and the peanut plugs in it . I can't believe the bid is up too 80k ....
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shill bidding at it`s best
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Take a look at the pulleys and the peanut plugs in it . I can't believe the bid is up too 80k ....
80K hahhahahaa.
I can already see this one getting re-listed . So likely he bid higher, but 80k is the reserve. Must be because of the rare "L" code.
That must trump all the other issues with this one... :P
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Seems to me his spelling of "Origanal" in the second line of the heading tells us exactly what will be happening.
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:), not Deluxe belts, just regular standards, plus seat covers are repro PUI ones and the repro Puffy door panels, hardly original :D
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On Jun-21-18 at 03:50:26 PDT, seller added the following information:
I have been asked 50 questions about this car by every Z28 Fanatic and self proclaimed expert particularly regarding the partial vin number on the block that's in the car.
Here's what I can tell you. L code cars are very hard to track and verify especially ones that were built in Van Nuys. This car vin L529083 and this engine L530071 were both built in the second week of April 1969 and both were at the Van Nuys plant at the same time. There is no documentation to locate a Z28 with a vin number that matches the L530071 that is stamped on the block that is in this car. I was told and also believe that during this period of time engines were installed in cars with mismatched vin's due to availability of engines. It's hard to imagine that someone changed the motor in this car and was able to find a block that was produced the same week of April in 1969 that this car was built. There is plenty of information out there that raises this question. The person that I got the car from spent many hours and weeks researching this over the 17 years he owned the car and has never been able to find any documentation to dispute this. As you can imagine every Z28 fanatic/expert on ebay has brought this mismatched vin to my attention however none of them can validate the non-legitimacy or the possibility of L530071 engine being installed in car 529083 both the same week of April 1969. As far as restoration, as described in the ad it has had one re-paint which is an excellent paint job in the original color of Rally Green. As far as other restorations to my knowledge there has not been any.
Documentation: I have what's left of the original tank sticker (Broadcast Sheet) see picture added. It is pretty beat up but was located on top of the fuel tank and is traceable to this car.
I highly suggest if anyone remains interested you come and have a look at the car in person. I have a lift in my garage and we can go over the car and each part one by one with a code guide to validate the Authenticity of the car. I hope this answers all the questions that continue to be asked. Thank you to all the experts that continue to send me messages.
Gene
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From the ad:
This Z28 is a very, very rare early 1969 Van Nuys California built “L” code car.
There were 31,163 '69 Camaros built at Van Nuys; not rare at all. It is also a late production car, built on or about April 11, 1969.
No mention of a Body Broadcast Copy commonly found on Van Nuys built Camaros. No original docs. No VIN stamped drive train components. Axle was cast in January, 73 days prior to estimated final assembly. Where is proof this is really a Z/28?
Right there is how it is a rare early car. It morphed forward in time to April ( probably April Fools day) got built and returned back to the “early” assembly line?! It is California, an L car, you know? And anything can happen in la la land. And I got a stop watching all these “ transformer” type movies! Yeck.
I have to agree with Bentley on that statement... :) after all.. it was 1969....
(How far away is Haight-Ashbury from the plant??? :)
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I have to agree with Bentley on that statement... :) after all.. it was 1969....
(How far away is Haight-Ashbury from the plant??? :)
[/quote]
Apparently not far enough....:)
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You guys in fly over country...
Haight & Ashbury in SF is pretty far from L.A.
But if you had a heavy dose of LSD maybe you could go on a little Mind trip and see where all his drive train parts came from :o ✌️
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The only thing I've gotten a recent dose of is alzheimers... :) or CRS as we call it down here in the south! :)
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I wonder if this idiot really believes what he is saying ! ??? I have heard some real good stories in my old fart days but the numbers not matching takes the cake. Someone is smoking some real good crap. :)
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Not sure about him, but it is the same with motorcycles and other vehicles. Over the years different stories are passed along. There is no CRG for many makes of Motorcycles so your mostly on your own doing research. So in the end buyer beware.
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It's a sad and pathetic yarn with no basis in reality.
Here's what I can tell you. L code cars are very hard to track and verify especially ones that were built in Van Nuys.
Huh? All 'L code' Camaros were built in Van Nuys. The CRG has had no difficulty assembling and maintaining information on them in a db.
BTW in my 43 years of 1st Gen Camaros I have never heard someone refer to Van Nuys cars as 'L code'.
L529083 and this engine L530071 were both built in the second week of April 1969 and both were at the Van Nuys plant at the same time.
No, they were not. The engine in L529083 is stamped V0411DZ and the stamp looks legit. That means that engine was assembled April 11, 1969 at the Flint, MI plant. Many people have posted NCRS delivery data on their cars. From that information we know that L529083 was final-assembled on or about April 11; L530071 was final-assembled on or about April 25th. The cars were built two weeks apart. The VIN sequence was assigned as completed bodies were received from Fisher, several days prior to final assembly. There is no way anyone at Van Nuys could have known L530071 was going to be a Z/28 two weeks before the car was built. While it is true that mis-stamped VINs have been noted, they are off by one digit.
How could a Camaro built on or about April 11th in Van Nuys, CA receive an engine built the same day in Flint MI 2,282 miles from Van Nuys?
As you can imagine every Z28 fanatic/expert on ebay has brought this mismatched vin to my attention however none of them can validate the non-legitimacy or the possibility of L530071 engine being installed in car 529083 both the same week of April 1969.
Until now.
Based on the remains of the BBC, L529083 is a Z/28. There is no reason to believe it has its original engine.
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I still like the color.
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Neat car, and from what I can see the broadcast sheet shows it's a Z/28. A plus for a Van Nuys car. Too bad the owner is muddying the waters with all the mumbo jumbo that is really degrading the car. A real Z in respectable shape with a real DZ engine in it wouldn't be that hard to sell if the owner would just come back down to reality.
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'L code' Camaro... He's obviously a Ford guy who got lost... :)
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Latest response.. Sarcastic??
Thank you very much for your concern about my car and taking the time to research and dispel all the information. You must have a great deal of time on your hands to be able to police and follow up on all the Z28 Camaro transactions on EBay since you have no interest in purchasing.
I’m sure every other seller of Z28’s are very pleased to hear from such a caring individual. Keep up the good work! And thanks again..
Gene
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Sounds like you made a life long friend. I would put him in your favorite sellers list. So anytime he lists something for sale you will get notified. Then I would send him a question every so often, with the words " I was concerned". ;)
2 can play at that game... :)
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Relisted with a Buy Now of $65,000
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28/302791288236
Interesting re-writing of the description, won't copy it here in it's entirety, but suffice to say the seller is obviously convinced by his own story to justify the non-matching drivetrain.....
This car was built the second week of April 1969 with 9L529083 partial VIN. The DZ302 Engine and the Munci Transmission are matching and have partial VIN of 19L530071.
Additionally in May of 1969 the entire Van Nuys plant went on strike and no cars were built that month. With a disgruntled workforce in April 69 working the Van Nuys plant who knows what could have happen? I cannot find any information anywhere on1969 Z28 19L530071which would match this drive train. Every Ebay expert (which all have felt it necessary to reach out to me) would say it is impossible for this motor to have been installed at the factory. I say nothing is impossible and without any question both this motor and this car were in the Van Nuys plant at the same time in May 1969 with a work force that was preparing to go on strike. Could they have mismatched an engine and transmission your guess is as good as mine??
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It's the same old adage. Just make something up to get it sold! He's not the first and certainly won't be the last. As William always says, Caveat Emptor. If a buyer is too stupid to do their homework, they deserve to get taken.
Ed
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No way is that the original engine for L529083. It's been carefully and politely explained how it could not be.
It is the original engine for L530071.
Reminds me of an editorial in the May 2016 Hemmings Muscle Machines "Beware the Bogus Ad." In that case it was a '68 GTO, fortunately only an hour drive.
It's a jungle out there.
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And just to make it searchable in case the car the engine belongs to DOES ever show up, the engine is for 124379L530071
Ed
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Interesting re-writing of the description, won't copy it here in it's entirety, but suffice to say the seller is obviously convinced by his own story to justify the non-matching drivetrain.....
It's pretty obvious to an outsider with Camaro knowledge that this guy is delusional about this car. It's probably the story he was told and believed when he bought the car. He has to believe the possibility or admit he was taken, and it's easier for him to believe the story.
I know a guy that keeps on getting scammed on the internet. It happens over and over to him. Everyone has told him he is getting scammed, but he refuses to believe it. He is delusional and thinks that everything will eventually pan out.
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What happened to the auction ? No longer shows on eBay under the link.
I have suggestion for this (unless someone has already promoted it) - why not invite any non-member self-believer to visit the CRG forum and see the reasons behind his questions about his ad(s) ? Probably save everyone a lot of time, although I know what we would likely risk in the way of tempers, bad language, and locked threads. I guess there are way too many self righteous experts around - I myself enjoy the weight of accumulated knowledge from multiple enthusiasts in answering situations such as this one.
Just my opinion -
Steve
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It has been re-listed.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28/302791288236?hash=item467fc465ac:g:enAAAOSwsEhbKlJe&vxp=mtr
An indication he really doesn't know the cars that well.
•8000 RPM Tachometer (check other Z28's for sale this is what they are suppose to have)
Continues the rant about how the engine could be original. No class.
This is from an ad for a '70 Z28 on SYC.
3) NOM, came from Z28 built two days later and shipped to same city. (CTB) coded.
That's how that should be handled. A honest seller IMHO.
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Unbelievable what some people come up with like many including Warren have mentioned. I gotta remember about those L-coded cars. LOL
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The good thing is that anyone who even spends 30 seconds to Google the VIN will find this thread as second on the list. As far as I'm concerned, anybody bidding on this car gets what they deserve.
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Quote from the seller's response (Darrell's post first page)"There is plenty of information out there that raises this question. The person that I got the car from spent many hours and weeks researching this over the 17 years he owned the car and has never been able to find any documentation to dispute this."
I love it. I've been researching for 40 years the possibility that Martians have invaded the planet, and claim they are currently running the Tri-Lateral commission from an undisclosed location. Have never found any documentation to dispute this. ;D :o
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Comes with some unknown hood option.....
"JL-2 Cowl Induction Hood that works perfectly"
- Warren
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"This listing was ended by the seller because the item was lost or broken."
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The motor for 124379L529083 showed up on facebook. I let Spencer know the car exists.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/243242005858727/permalink/1638421823007398
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Young man found something pretty neat that someone would want. Sounds like he had no interest in selling it when I messaged him info