CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: maroman on June 09, 2018, 02:23:00 AM

Title: 1967 pace car
Post by: maroman on June 09, 2018, 02:23:00 AM
Is the '67 pacer on ebay right now real?
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: WorkinProgress on June 09, 2018, 02:38:13 AM
Here is the link.......

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Camaro-Indy-Pace-Car/142825552236?hash=item214110f96c:g:gaEAAOSwX3FbGZTA&vxp=mtr
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: Emo1956 on June 09, 2018, 03:24:48 AM
Do you have the money to buy it ! Sure looks real to me .
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: 67CruiseMaster on June 09, 2018, 05:55:07 AM
Looks like the engine stamp is too close to the cylinder head to me. Maybe real but I'm not an expert. Trim tag looks funny to me too
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: Petes L48 on June 09, 2018, 10:08:52 PM
Can't speak to the originality as a festival car or block stampings and t-tag. 

Other stuff - nose stripe looks a bit off at the break, and has the Ford CAUTION FAN sticker.  Shouldn't the center caps should be the "Disc Brakes" style?  Looks like the lower door hinges (roller with the Allen screw) were rebuild with the kits that always fail.  As an Ohio car, hard to say how much of the sheet metal is original.  Would be nice to see some bottom shots ands other stamps. 
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: firstgenaddict on June 11, 2018, 12:15:44 AM
Uh the VIN stamp and the ASSEMBLY stamp are in swapped positions....
AND IT CANNOT HAPPEN LIKE THAT...

The Assembly stamp was indexed off the lower lip and stamped prior to the heads being installed on Big Blocks and it should be in the position where the VIN derivative is on this block.

You could not hit the VIN derivative in the GANG stamp with the HEAD INSTALLED because of the pipe plug in the end of the head.
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: maroman on June 11, 2018, 02:35:41 AM
I just  looked again, there are TWO BB '67 pacers. The one I was asking about is $125,000. I think that's the one Firstgen is referring to? The stamp is crooked too.
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: cook_dw on June 11, 2018, 11:35:43 AM
$125k

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Chevrolet-Camaro-Super-Sport-Rally-Sport/263703451842?hash=item3d65f358c2:g:NV8AAOSwfZta4mdM&vxp=mtr (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Chevrolet-Camaro-Super-Sport-Rally-Sport/263703451842?hash=item3d65f358c2:g:NV8AAOSwfZta4mdM&vxp=mtr)

Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: cook_dw on June 11, 2018, 11:38:22 AM
$84.9K


Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: firstgenaddict on June 12, 2018, 12:30:41 AM
I thought the cars with the O-1 tags got body color tail pans... and the C-1 cars got the Black tails...

O-1 being special paint.
C-1 being std. ermine white paint.
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: z28z11 on June 12, 2018, 03:48:55 AM
The first car on Darrell's post looks to be a restamp, due to the fact you can't get the stamp around the core plug in the head right above it - interferes completely, plus it's very close to the edge of the head, also a good indicator that something's amiss. Awful lot of money for a questionable stamping -

JMO -

Steve
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: KurtS on June 18, 2018, 04:49:38 AM
Big blocks were stamped before the head was installed.....
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: vtfb68 on June 18, 2018, 04:03:44 PM
Kurt,
 could you please expand on this point?
 What method was used to keep the Tonawanda stamped blocks properly applied to the correct  LA built car?
Would this indicate that big blocks motors were not pulled from bulk racks ?
Thus all BB cars body's and motor numbers should be in numeric order, Correct?

  Victor
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: bcmiller on June 18, 2018, 07:16:16 PM
Victor,

Engine assembly stamps were done at the engine assembly plant. Big blocks got their stamped assembly date and application code BEFORE the heads were installed.

Partial VIN was stamped later, at the vehicle assembly plant. 
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: vtfb68 on June 19, 2018, 01:08:59 AM
Hi BC,
Yes, that is clear
 I am not referring to any stamp, just the transferring and assigning processes of the BB motors.
     VT
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: firstgenaddict on June 19, 2018, 01:25:17 AM
Kurt,
 could you please expand on this point?
 What method was used to keep the Tonawanda stamped blocks properly applied to the correct  LA built car?
Would this indicate that big blocks motors were not pulled from bulk racks ?
Thus all BB cars body's and motor numbers should be in numeric order, Correct?

  Victor

No there were bulk racks for the engine by assembly codes...
They were pulled according to the engine assembly...
JG - 396 325hp auto
JJ -  396 375 Alum heads MT
JH -  396 375 hp MT
JL  - 396 375  Auto
The engines were complete assemblies which were minus the Carbs and plug wires  - they were already equipped with flex plate or clutch/flywheel and bell housing.

There was nothing to keep straight  -
The engines were not First In First Out.

When the engine was pulled from the rack and mated with the trans and the pair were stamped the Assembly stamps must have been noted for eventual inclusion on the Protecto PLATE. 
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: z28z11 on June 19, 2018, 02:22:02 AM
Victor,

ngine assembly stamps were done at the engine assembly plant. Big blocks got their stamped assembly date and application code BEFORE the heads were installed.

Partial VIN was stamped later, at the vehicle sssembly plant. 

The partial VIN position is what I was referring to - in the pics, if the head was installed, you likely wouldn't be able to get the stamp holder in the position that stamp in particular appears. Engine code is usually far enough away, or depending on the year, stamped on the opposite side of the pad from the core plug.

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: bcmiller on June 19, 2018, 06:30:11 AM
Which photo are you referring to?
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: firstgenaddict on June 19, 2018, 10:55:33 AM
Victor,

ngine assembly stamps were done at the engine assembly plant. Big blocks got their stamped assembly date and application code BEFORE the heads were installed.

Partial VIN was stamped later, at the vehicle sssembly plant. 

The partial VIN position is what I was referring to - in the pics, if the head was installed, you likely wouldn't be able to get the stamp holder in the position that stamp in particular appears. Engine code is usually far enough away, or depending on the year, stamped on the opposite side of the pad from the core plug.

Regards,
Steve
NO the VIN would not be able to be stamped on the lower section after the heads were installed, which is why they were on the upper section or on the bell housing boss.
The VIN on Big Blocks was stamped on the upper section of the stamp pad, the Assem date and application codes were on the lower section of the pad and done prior to head installation.


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6j2rOmP1gZhx3Im63LU_In6C3TLbzTxjIkv__rLUfX9QloqbhUyf8SuZ5tvsCFJJFnJjMJV-KASBohAIoInlrnxOMjKMnruLfUXTHjaJe3Ittlm4LgKDFWzSaXUqBPCW_vfoAX-OXXgE60dmY7Jw8dSLAFGXw1J8rN8c8BCLyjgS1J3MGzy8Jv19uZL5n-BB_DNVxo0t4TLai1t1bUdJjnSwf2t05MSMeXC1Wm8JiTuKdhB48OK5qberCI1uL2xzMtZGDk_K8pueNhI6lNyLCFP1TOF1rEP3FPsi551DrQiljxxhAuiszVr7qztsDRBd93PMStm600meKQU9__FlhQQmvnxWjCv5w4-xd_ype5pz5mqELpt-mX4j-7ep-lLpa_qY006hJ8DYsm3YQm6UMTpmMQNziHnBd8gTOEHMAvsCehVKzZE9POeNnqYtBJHNSKMRtW1Al4UDTNP5lBUsgfBMwKGieV7cX7MR2qwiDJD4cbTPVP1DnVeEnU4cxCcvwbzxni4-By-C4kpn8Z1mCJJnn_ai-L8hA2WF4__zGHsPsm-ocqywnqJrMVnEeizh1rZ2qvoF74v5rFzFMxt--4U78v55vdLM15qNABOLpzhmh53yn9svtFN5HjGJloxWR6F-iNjAsSpIHjZlCVIiuBP5djfpAGUakQ=w1600-h1068-no)

Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: vtfb68 on June 20, 2018, 07:27:39 PM
Hi Guys,
 James,  Your story (reply 15) is the story I always heard also, Kurt clearly stated that the big blocks were stamped without the heads installed so, NOT complete and NOT in racks. are you stating that the motors were stamped twice or, the heads were installed on the assembly line? The dash pad VIN was created when the order was placed, the motor had to match the car VIN and all the ordered options
for that car. As I understand the orders were received at headquarters (Detroit?), The motor was built in Tonawanda, the car was assembled in either LA or Norwood, Three different, pre-numbered pieces from three different places had to meet at the same place at about the same time. I was wondering about the methods used. That's why I asked Kurt to expand on that point. If indeed the blocks were stamped at the factory (Tonawanda) they could not have been randomly pulled from a rack. Was Kurt referring only to pace cars? Maybe we will find out.

   VT
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: Petes L48 on June 20, 2018, 08:51:51 PM
It's also ways good to go back and review this, every so often.  There's even a picture or two.

http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: vtfb68 on June 20, 2018, 11:11:19 PM
Good advice Pete,
  Upon further review I see I am interchanging the Two stamps.
   Victor
Title: Re: 1967 pace car
Post by: firstgenaddict on June 22, 2018, 12:48:53 PM
Good advice Pete,
  Upon further review I see I am interchanging the Two stamps.
   Victor

I thought I had explained it pretty clearly and was perplexed in trying to figure out where I was being misunderstood.

As an aside...
It also appears that you have the VIN number and the COWL TAG BODY NUMBER assignments crossed.
BEGINNING in 1969 The BODY NUMBERS (NOT VINS) were assigned when the order was accepted at the Central Office, the VIN numbers were not associated with a car body build at Fisher, they were assigned by Chevrolet AFTER the body was built by Fisher, which is why the VINs were stamped, after the bodies were painted. (Firewall and wiper cowl VIN stamps chip the FISHER applied paint)