CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => Maintenance => Topic started by: wiljoe765 on May 10, 2018, 11:21:52 AM
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I need to change oil in my new to me big block 69 RS/SS . What oil should I use? Full synthetic? What weight? Thanks
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I use Joe Gibbs HR-2 non synthetic 10-30 in my 68 350cu in. Tried synthetic & had trouble (too slick for my older engine). Like the added zinc & other chemicals in HR-2 = better for my flat tappet engine
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This subject comes up several times a year and everyone has their opinions on what to buy. However, before you spend your hard earned money on "boutique" brands, I suggest you read THIS (https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr9ImhlYvRaAEgApBRXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyaHY2dmsxBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMzBHZ0aWQDQjQwMzdfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1525994213/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.corvettesinternational.com%2fforum%2findex.php%3faction%3ddlattach%3btopic%3d370.0%3battach%3d40/RK=2/RS=Zt1IZNu_g5lwrYlnOJ94dRtbiT4-). The author is Duke Williams and he's probably THE go-to guy when it comes to oil. Do a Google search on him and you'll find a lot of information.
Also, as an update to that article, Duke posts a lot on the NCRS website and here's something he posted last year:
I was at Walmart last week and noticed that some brands have the new CK-4 primary service category and some are still CJ-4. The API and manufacturers state that CK-4 is "fully backwards compatible with prior C-categories." There is also a new FA-4 spec that I will get to shortly. I know many of you are hung up on brand names, but don't just blindly pull something off the shelf because it looks familiar. Verify the the "API donut" on the back carries a primary C-category, which will likely be CK-4 or CJ-4. The FA-4 is for new HD engines that should hit the road this year. They will be available only in xW-30 grades and the emphasis is on lower internal friction for better fuel ecomomy and less CO2. There will also likely be a reduction in "heavy metal" additives, which means less ZDDP. Other anti-wear additive will take their place, but I don't know if they are as effective. New HD engines will have detail internal design changes like bearings and rings to be compatible with FA-4. I have not yet found any detailed FA-4 specs from any manufacturer, so I don't know if they will be suitable for vintage engines with sliding surface valve trains or not, so stick with CK-4 or CJ-4. Next time I buy oil I'll buy the least expensive C-category oil I can find, as I usually do, regardless of whether it's CK-4 or CJ-4. Just make sure you don't buy FA-4 for now.
In regards to the CK-4 or CJ-4, the best deal around is still the Walmart house brand Super-Tech CJ-4. At less than $10 bucks a gallon it meets ALL the requirements of our older engines.
Ed
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I've been using any good dino 10w-30 oil that is on sale along with a bottle of ZDDP for my 67 L35.
For my other cars/SUV's I use any good quality oil (whatever the dealer recommends) and have always logged over 250,000 miles on the motors and that is putting close to 7,000 miles oil changes. By the time I get 250K miles I usually buy another car because I get bored with the one I have. Also by that time, the value is way down due to age and mileage so I could never justify the expense of synthetic oil.
Mike
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If you want a brand name - Shell Rotella.
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If you want a brand name - Shell Rotella.
Amen. I use this in all my small engines, too. I used to use strictly Castrol, but they pulled the zinc and phosphorus as everyone else. Years ago - Union 76 20W50 oil.
Regards,
Steve
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I noticed Shell Rotella reduced the Zinc of there products in the last couple of years. I am not sure if it was across the board or just in my region.
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Since most cars we have run carbs,not FI,and run short trips fuel contamination in the oil to me is more important than brand name. Change it when it smells like gas instead of X miles.
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Spectro Motor Guard has 1800 PPM zinc and phosphorous.
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I noticed Shell Rotella reduced the Zinc of there products in the last couple of years. I am not sure if it was across the board or just in my region.
I read that somewhere in the last couple years also but most of us use Brad Penn oil which is similar to the same thing we used back in the day and its made in Bradford, PA. That is what our engine builder uses and recommends. It's green in color and been around a long time. Some info here: "“the Original Green Oil.” is cut from Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil from the Bradford Oil Field in Bradford, Pennsylvania, where it was first extracted in 1859. The oil has a unique green color and the ability to stick and cling to metal objects, offering full film strength to the customer. Its enhanced levels of zinc and phosphorous protect vital engine components, and it has been the first choice of engine builders and equipment manufacturers for decades." I purchase it locally at a Oil Distribution Store (does wholesale & retail) but realize for many they have to order it and that becomes expensive.
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I remember back in the day using a green oil. I don,t remember it being called Brad Penn. We discussed then that it got darker quicker. The appearance of oil signaled a change since most people did not change by mileage.
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I remember back in the day using a green oil. I don,t remember it being called Brad Penn. We discussed then that it got darker quicker. The appearance of oil signaled a change since most people did not change by mileage.
KENDALL?
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Yes, Kendall was it. We used to run it and the only complaint was the color after a while. Course most oil now is so clear you can,t see it on the stick.
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I remember back in the day using a green oil. I don,t remember it being called Brad Penn. We discussed then that it got darker quicker. The appearance of oil signaled a change since most people did not change by mileage.
KENDALL?
Bingo, believe you are a winner! Great oil and a lot of car people use it.
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I have been looking into Joe Gibbs 10w40 driven conventional oil for my freshly rebuilt 396.
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The oil has a unique green color...
When PA crude comes out of the ground, the color can vary from water clear to dark brown. They must be adding a dye to it.
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They must be adding a dye to it.
They do.
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Valvoline VR1.
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I have been building engines and racing for over 45 years and I only use 20W-50 Valvoline VR1 High Zddp . Oil is cheap protection for your engine and A good filter. Rotella no long has ZDDP. You need at least 1300 PPM .
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Rotella no long has ZDDP.
That's an incorrect statement. Rotella T4 15W-40 is still rated CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4, CI-4 Plus and CH-4, which means it has the correct levels of ZDDP these old cars require. (The picture below is Rotella T4 15W-40 I picked up today at Walmart.)
The above link I posted from Duke Williams no longer seems to be working so let's try this again!
http://www.corvettesinternational.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=370.0;attach=40
From the article:
Thus, CJ-4 is the best commonly available oil for vintage engines because you are essentially guaranteed a near ideal amount of ZDDP for maximum protection of vintage engine sliding surface components.
The maximum P concentration per the CJ-4 API specification that has been in place and unchanged since 2007 is 1200 ppm, which would yield Zn in the range of 1300 ppm.
Bottom line is use ONLY Parkerized cams and use ANY oil with a primary C-category, and ignore any secondary categories. (Primary C-category oils are also identified by the 15W-40 and 5W-40 grades that are unique to C-category oils.)
Ed
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There are all kinds of fancy and EXPENSIVE lubricants out there. I'm old school and know what has worked for me in all the big block Chevy engines I have owned, built, raced and destroyed since 1979. I'm assuming your engine has a flat tappet camshaft in it and is used just for a cruise-in/show car. Without getting into a long educational reply on today's oils vs oils of the past that had lots of zinc and phosphorous anti-wear additives in them, this is my recommendation to you. Go buy a premium brand of 10w-30 conventional motor oil (Valvoline) and put a bottle of Comp Cams #159 camshaft break-in additive in your engine EVERY time you change your oil. Change it at 3000 miles and use the most expensive oil filter you can buy. That's what I use in my cars and what I recommend to everyone that I build an old school flat tappet camshaft engine for. We have not experienced wiping a camshaft yet.
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So there you go wiljoe765. Opinions on what oil to use are like a-holes. Everybody has one. You can go expensive or you can go reasonable. It's up to you. But before you go adding ZDDP to any oil, it would be a good idea to read THIS (http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oil_myths.pdf) because YES, there's such thing as having too MUCH ZDDP!!!
And I echo what bigfish45 said about the filter. Use a GOOD filter, and by that, I mean try to stay away from Fram. I've used Wix in the past but lately I've heard a lot of good things about BALDWIN (http://www.baldwinfilter.com/), which most people have never even heard of. Apparently they're the standard in the medium/HD truck trade and off road equipment for construction and mining. They're not usually sold through your local FLAPS (Friendly Local Auto Parts Store), or even RockAuto, but can by bought from parts dealers that cater to the above mentioned trades. Their part number P18 is for 1967 and prior cartridge applications, and their part number B27 is for 1968 and later spin-on applications.
Ed
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I asked JohnZ a few years ago about Shell Rotella and it was fine then, so should be now.
I use NAPA Gold filters.
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Napa Gold = Wix
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Correct. Just wanted to see if anyone was paying attention. :)
Napa store is close to me and gives me a discount. They get plenty of my business.
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(https://media3.giphy.com/media/26gsvAm8UPaczzXz2/giphy.gif)
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Bertfam - has 15w40 worked well? I always use 10w30 in my 396.
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Yes, no problems at all.
Ed
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Yes, no problems at all.
Ed
Thank you.
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I've used the "Brad Penn" green oil for several years in my 454 and have not had any issues,buying through Cumberland Truck parts here in Pa. around 5.00/qt.
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I also use the 15w-40 from walmart in my 350 (929 flat tappet), no issues