CRG Discussion Forum
Camaro Research Group Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: jdv69z on March 23, 2018, 03:43:29 PM
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So I understand that Flint was capable of producing every combination small block required during a typical production year. My question is, Did Flint produce a particular engine configuration in batches? Eg, would the 302 have been produced in batches of say, 100 at a time? As opposed to a random production sequence where every different engine produced could be a different configuration. It would seem that this batch approach would be a more efficient method?
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Interesting question. I think we have at least one participant/member here who worked in one of the engine plants; I imagine that if they batch built, then the same/similar process would be followed in both plants? I think Bergy had experience in the Tonawanda plant.... ?
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Do the math.
Chevy built 20,302 '69 Z/28s over a span of 445 calendar days.
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Batches, yes. Some batches 100 or more at a time.
Good reading here at this link...
http://www.camaros.org/pdf/flint_engine.pdf
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Do the math.
Chevy built 20,302 '69 Z/28s over a span of 445 calendar days.
Don't you mean 40,302? I think that's close to the current number that are left anyway. ;-)
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Well would it actually have been closer to 21,000 302ci, since you have to factor in all the CE blocks?
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CE blocks handled diffferently. Not done at the same time as a production batch.
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All engines were batched. The same with starters, distributors, transmissions, etc. Can't build different part #'s at the same time.
The high volume engines (think 327 ME in 67/68) were big batches and commonly run. Others, less so.
All driven by the assembly plant schedule, which then drove the engine plant schedule, etc.
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So in the CRG data base of Z/28's, 302 engines, if enough data points were observed, there would be a pattern of dates that the 302 was produced, and also a pattern of pad stamps for a given batch of engines. And then it could be determined if a pad stamp was legitimate based on the date and the pad stamp. Same as when a distributor stamp is observed, and someone comments that it is a "known good date". If that's reasonable, then I guess the next question would be: Are there enough data points in the data base now that allow for these patterns to be known? If so, it would make faking a block very difficult for anyone without the data base or knowledge of the patterns. At least if their forgery had to pass CRG inspection.
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Known to you if you collect the data yourself.
I don't think the CRG intends to publish any data points on motors or any other part, as to not help the fraudsters.
I have gotten better at spotting fake trim tags, because I have started collecting images of real ones from certain time frames. So if I find a questionable Camaro, I usually post it on the CRG with my suspicions about the tag. And usually someone confirms my suspicions. So CRG likely will not post "here are all the good dates..."
But they will rule out or will give their opinion on anything questionable.
Not exactly what you may be seeking, but it is still an aid.
I don't think all the info the CRG has, needs to be so guarded, but still plenty of fraudsters out there that will restamp, or try to make an extra dollar off a dummy.
Maybe I have learned more by them not coming out and giving more info.
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Many many reports have been written and are available on the main sight. Many things have been shared.
Important data will always be guarded, some more than others.
I have said it many times, there is a fine line. We want to help those with honest intentions, but not those whose intent is to be dishonest or misrepresent something.
That’s tough to do. And when people start asking a lot of questions, I tend to get quiet. :)
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It would take hours to read through all of the reports
http://www.camaros.org/bulletins.shtml
Plus John’s technical articles
http://www.camaros.org/articles.shtml
and the other information shared on the main page - sections on Engine, Interior, Exterior, etc
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I taught college evenings classes for 12 years while working my regular job. Usually one of my remarks for new students in a class would be something like
“I can and will teach you what you need to know for this class. But my goal is to inspire you to want to learn more. If you have questions, see if you can find the answers on your own. If you can’t, at least be ready to have an informed two way discussion and we will try to find answers.”
I also told them that “most classes will end up teaching me new information or challenging me to do research - to learn more.”
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Known to you if you collect the data yourself.
I don't think the CRG intends to publish any data points on motors or any other part, as to not help the fraudsters.
I have gotten better at spotting fake trim tags, because I have started collecting images of real ones from certain time frames. So if I find a questionable Camaro, I usually post it on the CRG with my suspicions about the tag. And usually someone confirms my suspicions. So CRG likely will not post "here are all the good dates..."
But they will rule out or will give their opinion on anything questionable.
Not exactly what you may be seeking, but it is still an aid.
I don't think all the info the CRG has, needs to be so guarded, but still plenty of fraudsters out there that will restamp, or try to make an extra dollar off a dummy.
Maybe I have learned more by them not coming out and giving more info.
I am not seeking anything other than a better understanding of the whole manufacturing process. I understand perfectly well that CRG would not be giving out this type of data for obvious reasons. My point is that as more and more data points are added to the CRG database regarding 302 engine build dates/stamps the tougher it would be for fraudulent engines ( and Cars) to pass a CRG inspection. And that would be good for everyone. (except the forgers)
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Hi Bryon, or anyone...
I see a lot of great information as I surf posts on here, like the two you posted about the articles and even the one about the brake boosters, but I don't see those links on the main page of CRG at the top. Can someone point me on how to better utilize all the great info. you've all compiled, I feel like I'd bother you guys less (hopefully) with questions that already have answers? Thank for any guidance.
Shane
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Which can't you find off of the 'CRG link block' that appears on the top of every non-forum page?
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Instructions:
1. hit the CRG red banner at the top of the page.
2. Then go onto research or any other category you want to look at and you will see the different break downs of categories
have fun!
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I figured it out with BULLITT65 post. Now I can find more of the links I see referenced in posts. I hadn't realized how in depth those links went on some of the pages like Chassis. Thanks.
Currently trying to put together the correct set up for my brakes for my car, so wanted to get the correct numbers for the booster and MC. Thanks everyone.
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A lot of content and information that has been put together. Have fun exploring !