CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: GreenNV on March 14, 2018, 04:27:09 AM

Title: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: GreenNV on March 14, 2018, 04:27:09 AM
Can anyone tell me what this build date means on this 68 LOS trim tag noted as being 1SD.

Does the S represent Special Order or something to that effect? I know the car was factory ordered as a L78 and was built in December and sold to customer on Jan 12 from the docs. Was there a mid December change from LOS to VN plant code and does the body number correspond to other trim tags from same period? Thanks for any help.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jj8AAOSwDTNao4C1/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: ZLP955 on March 14, 2018, 05:12:23 AM
Looks like it was intended to be 12D. Perhaps a '2' needed to be replaced so they used something similar (!), or maybe a new worker didn't realise the stamp is mirrored/reversed when looking end-on and took the wrong individual stamp. Kurt's likely aware of other examples, but the plant probably picked up the error quickly and rectified it.
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: GreenNV on March 14, 2018, 12:56:57 PM
That would make perfect sense after you mention it. Kurt, have you seen any others like it from the same period? Not doubting the tag or it's originality on this car, just wondered if I missed something in the coding or if it was a known error in the stamping. First one I have seen like it.

Thanks
 
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: 69Z28-RS on March 14, 2018, 02:10:37 PM
A mistake (probably), but I cannot believe that Fisher stamped these cowl plates out with individual stamps; I'm not aware of what sort of automated embossing machines were available back in the 50s/60's, but Fisher Body surely had such an animal that would produce the embossed cowl plates from a database (and I suspect the 'database' was in 'ibm card' or punched tape form).  So a 'key in' error into their database probably, but not a wrongly selected 'stamp'...

Just one man's opinion.. :)
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: z28z11 on March 14, 2018, 06:50:14 PM
Addressographs - dealers used the same or similar machines to stamp the P-O-P's. I stood in the local Chevrolet dealership with my dad when he bought our '68 Custom Coupe Impala and they stamped the plate. You can still find the machines on eBay occasionally, I've even seen NOS blank plates (with the requisite Chevrolet emblem stamped in one end) sold there. Usually pretty expensive -

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: ZLP955 on March 14, 2018, 07:21:59 PM
May not have been individual stamps, not aware of how an addressograph was set up, but there are other known TT errors like 'NBR' and '04L'.
BTW, the car in question is in Alaska.
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: GreenNV on March 14, 2018, 09:36:57 PM
Yes...it's in Alaska, but hopefully it'll have a new home right here in AB.  8)
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: 68 Ragtop on March 14, 2018, 10:17:35 PM
Are the 4's crooked, or is it a funny angle photo?
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: ZLP955 on March 14, 2018, 11:07:07 PM
Yes...it's in Alaska, but hopefully it'll have a new home right here in AB.  8)
Good luck Graeme, will stay tuned.
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: cook_dw on March 15, 2018, 02:06:17 PM
Its a legit tag from what I can see but what I find interesting is the lack of scheduling code.
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: 68 Ragtop on March 15, 2018, 02:43:59 PM
4th week of December car, must have had a few key people out for Christmas holiday that day. Perhaps a newbie on the adressograph machine?

One not to far away from my 1968 tag pic collection.

Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: cook_dw on March 15, 2018, 02:54:51 PM
Ditto.  It was the week before Christmas. And with Christmas being on Monday I'd say folks took a few days off for an extended vaca.  Also several L78 & Z cars built that week.





Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: GreenNV on March 15, 2018, 07:38:09 PM
Seller and I talked at length but we're still a ways apart on what we each perceive as the cars net value. None of the drive train matches including the diff, and he was supposed to send me additional pics of the underside including the floors, frame rails and a few things on Wednesday but didn't follow through. I was thinking of flying up to see it but it doesn't look like it will happen at this point? I'm not going to chase it and I'm sure he has enough people interested to get it sold.

Would have been fun to own.  8)
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: z28z11 on March 16, 2018, 01:45:53 AM
May not have been individual stamps, not aware of how an addressograph was set up, but there are other known TT errors like 'NBR' and '04L'.
BTW, the car in question is in Alaska.

Here's an eBay auction of a Graphotype Addressograph, similar to what most dealerships had to print the POP's. I watched several of these being printed over my early years while with my dad during his episodic car deals at our largest Chevy dealer in Nashville, and was always fascinated with them. I'd liken them to a mid-modern mechanical version of a word processor.

If you never knew what the POP's were for, or how they were used - they were used as imprinting plates with a credit card type embossing machine to print (imprint) the owner's info on the top address block of dealer service forms, and warranty claims. All the pertinent info for what the car was (and when it was built, with what drive train), and the owner's info on a very tough to alter permanent record. Simple and effective, it still takes a relatively ancient guy like me to remember them.

The newer generations call them "dog tag machines". Some versions were, same concept, different use -

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Graphotype-Model-6340-Addressograph-Dog-Tag-Machine-Vintage/123014880956?hash=item1ca4421ebc:g:hPYAAOSwCMtahJ-Q

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: bcmiller on March 16, 2018, 09:59:31 AM
Original POPs were provided by the factory.

Dealerships could issue replacements - but they were not the same format.
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: bcmiller on March 16, 2018, 10:01:48 AM
Seller and I talked at length but we're still a ways apart on what we each perceive as the cars net value. None of the drive train matches including the diff, and he was supposed to send me additional pics of the underside including the floors, frame rails and a few things on Wednesday but didn't follow through. I was thinking of flying up to see it but it doesn't look like it will happen at this point? I'm not going to chase it and I'm sure he has enough people interested to get it sold.

Would have been fun to own.  8)

Tag has that error but appears to be fine. Errors are not common.

What’s the story on the wrong axle? I can understand the block and transmission being gone with the race history.
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: ZLP955 on March 16, 2018, 10:13:48 AM
Thanks Steve, am intrigued by the process now!
So would the machine be loaded with a punch/die for each possible character in a particular location, and then the desired one is typed from the keyboard and the machine moves the plate to the character or the character to the plate? Just trying to imagine if an error was possible when initially installing the punches/dies (wrong character, or wrong location), or only if the operator hit the wrong key? And how was the machine set up to suit the desired layout of the plate?
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: GreenNV on March 16, 2018, 02:02:50 PM
Quote
What’s the story on the wrong axle? I can understand the block and transmission being gone with the race history.

The original owners track helper said that the car had 3 various diff's in it throughout it's life of racing. The original which most likely blown up, a 9" which was used for a while, and another BW diff installed from a different car. Maybe they didn't know it was 6 months late for the build and being it's been there since the 70's, likely didn't care? That's all I know at this point.

Last night I received full documentation on the car sent to me by the seller, and I'm going to try and get a hold of Rolands track helper and/or his brother if he's still alive. A friend of mine remembers the car as he raced at the same tracks during the same time period with his Camaro. Car's cool and hard to argue with the condition of the body, but it really comes down the price since the numbers are long gone.
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: 69Z28-RS on March 16, 2018, 02:36:53 PM
Original POPs were provided by the factory.

Dealerships could issue replacements - but they were not the same format.

When the dealership sold the car, the new owner's name/address/etc were embossed onto 'sticky tape' using a small machine (similar to the dymo label maker owned by most kids of the day) and the sticky tape applied to the 'owner' section of the factory supplied POP.   I have two original 1969 POPs with such labels for owner's information.
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: bcmiller on March 16, 2018, 07:38:10 PM
Original POPs were provided by the factory.

Dealerships could issue replacements - but they were not the same format.

When the dealership sold the car, the new owner's name/address/etc were embossed onto 'sticky tape' using a small machine (similar to the dymo label maker owned by most kids of the day) and the sticky tape applied to the 'owner' section of the factory supplied POP.   I have two original 1969 POPs with such labels for owner's information.

Correct.  The dealership usually stamped or filled in the dealer section too. I have a collection of POPs.

But the discussion was in regards to dealerships stamping plates.  The original POP plate and book came from the factory.  The stamping on the plate was not done at the dealership. The only plates that dealerships stamped were for replacements, and they were not the same format.
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: bcmiller on March 19, 2018, 10:32:24 PM
Car is now sold back to the original owner's family?
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: ZLP955 on March 20, 2018, 11:10:47 AM
Yes, GreenNV facilitated the reunion  :)
There's a thread discussing the car and that great outcome over at the sYc forum here: http://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=147748
Title: Re: 1968 Trim Tag Build Date 1SD
Post by: bcmiller on March 22, 2018, 07:22:52 PM
Oh OK. Good deal.

The numbers being thrown around for this car seemed high to me.