CRG Discussion Forum
Orphans - documentation or VIN-stamped drivetrains - in search of the original cars => 1969 - Orphans => Topic started by: Crownstables on February 17, 2018, 09:11:47 PM
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19N509257 DZ 302 Block on ebay
V1I07DZ
Dated October 31st, 1968
Seller - michaelsclassicandmusclecarparts
Ebay ad title - 1969 Camaro Z28 DZ 302 3932386 Block J-31-8 STD
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Camaro-Z28-DZ-302-3932386-Block-J-31-8-STD/272682480055?hash=item3f7d2471b7:g:qkgAAOSw3gJZHiLO&vxp=mtr
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Thanks Gramps69Z - much easier.
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Looks real, but unless they found a way to time travel, wasn't originally installed in N509257. Probably meant L509257.
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"william" - could you educate me and elaborate on your reply. Thank you
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The block was completed on 7 November 68. L509257 was completed in LA during late November '68, whereas N509257 was completed in Norwood during late September.
Seems this engine could not have come in a Norwood car, but *might* have come in an LA car...
Gary
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It’s in CA so makes sense that it would be from a LOS car.
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Sure.
There were two US 1st Gen Camaro assembly plants: Norwood, Ohio and Van Nuys, CA. The Norwood plant initially only built Camaros; Firebird moved there April of '69. For 1969 Norwood produced about 87% of total Camaro production. The Van Nuys plant built several other cars in addition to Camaro.
At both plants, Camaro VIN sequencing started at 500001. Norwood Camaros had an N VIN prefix, Van Nuys Camaros had an L VIN prefix. From many decades of data gathering, reverse-engineered production calendars have been compiled. From these it is possible to estimate a production date given a VIN. Cars were not built in exact VIN order.
V1107DZ is a 302 engine final-assembled at the Flint, MI plant on November 7, 1968.
Camaro N509257 was final-assembled at Norwood on or about September 24, 1968. It could not possibly have had an engine built November 7, 1968.
Camaro L509257 was final-assembled at Van Nuys on or about November 19, 1968. It could have had an engine built November 7, 1968.
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Thank you for your replies and knowledge, I learn so much from this site. The ebay seller must be getting that partial VIN off the rough part of the block by the oil filter. He shows a picture of that area but I cannot see anything.
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William, Wouldn't a LA block of that time frame have the VIN stamped on the pad?
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I'm surprised not to see a VIN from either plant on the pad. They were somewhat inconsistent; years ago I had a late October '68 302 stamped by the oil filter.
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I guess it was up to who ever was doing the stamping at the time. A lot of good info. Thanks
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You would think they would have had a process for stamping it on the side vs. the top. I am still surprised that there is such a large window of inconstancy with Vin location. What is the earliest vin stamped by the oil filter? what is the latest known vin stamped on the pad? (LA and Norwood examples if you have them)
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Mine is stamped at the oil filter and is a 12D built Norwood car, engine stamped 12-27 I think (have to look again). I've looked at 2 other Norwood blocks for sale in recent past that were stamped mid Dec 68 builds and they both also had the vin at the oil filter just a week or two before mine.
I had info on a Norwood built DZ engine with a build date stamp late November here somewhere, and it had the vin at the oil filter also. I'll have to dig and see if I can find it. That's the earliest I've ever seen a Norwood car done that way.
I was under the impression that Van Nuys was stamping vins at the oil filter earlier then Norwood was.
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You would think they would have had a process for stamping it on the side vs. the top. I am still surprised that there is such a large window of inconstancy with Vin location. What is the earliest vin stamped by the oil filter? what is the latest known vin stamped on the pad? (LA and Norwood examples if you have them)
Some late-March built ZL1s are VIN stamped on the pad.
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great info. Any ideas on why it was on the pad still so late into the spring. (all ZL-1's would have been Norwood I think)
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Yup, all ZL1s were built at Norwood. No idea why some were VIN stamped on the pad.
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What is the earliest vin stamped by the oil filter? what is the latest known vin stamped on the pad? (LA and Norwood examples if you have them)
I have 19L528xxx stamped on the pad, and have seen them into 19L530xxx (which is nearing the end of LA production for the '69 MY) also on the pad. By contrast, I know the current owner of 19L5023xx and it's stamped by the oil filter.....
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There was a federal requirement (from Aug/Sep '68) that the engine be 'uniquely identified, and VIN stamping is most expedient at time of installation , but there was no federal requirement on where it was stamped.
The issue of *where* the VIN was stamped on '69 engines, and the 'inconsistency' in location thru the year, makes me think that Chevrolet engineering management to address the requirement wrote specifications allowing for either location to be stamped (so long as ONE of them was); the LA and Norwood plants apparently chose different locations to meet this requirement.
It was probably faster/easier to stamp the engine low on the side, immediately before or after the transmission was stamped. It's obviously easier to rear on the pad! It may have varied with the person being tasked with that job, or possibly whether the engine was 'dressed out' with alternator/etc, or not, at the stamping time.