CRG Discussion Forum

Camaro Research Group Discussion => Decoding/Numbers => Topic started by: mivy on December 31, 2017, 06:53:19 PM

Title: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: mivy on December 31, 2017, 06:53:19 PM
Hi, I need some assistance.  I am looking to purchase a "numbers" matching very nice restored 68 SS350 car.  Based on research on this site I am seeing confusing information and would like some help.  The cowl tag date is stamped 07C which is 3rd week of July for the build however, the engine stamping is as follows:

Casting number 3914678 which seems to check out
18L348146  VII29MS - the first part matches the VIN of the car but the 1129 indicates a November 29th date which is far from the 3rd week of July date on the body.  The MS indicates the correct 295HP 350.  Could the engine date be this far off from the body build date?  Also, would that be November 29th of 67 or 68?  It's very confusing to me and would like some additional advice.  I have also attached pictures of the engine stamp and the cowl tag.  The VIN of the car is 124378L348146


Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: bertfam on January 01, 2018, 04:15:24 PM
In my opinion, the pad is real and original to the car. Yes, it's outside the "accepted range" of 6 months (car built 3rd week of July, 1968, and the engine assembled November 29th, 1967, so an 8 month lag), but it's a VERY late LA car and there are a lot of examples of late LA cars having early to mid 1968 parts.

Can you post a picture of the axle and transmission stamps?

Ed
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: bcmiller on January 01, 2018, 05:41:35 PM
I don't see any red flags, but I am not 100 percent convinced at this point.
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: z28z11 on January 01, 2018, 07:02:54 PM
There are some additional stampings to the extreme left side of the pad - I see a "45", could be a machine shop marking, but it does raise an eyebrow. Pad surface look a little artificial, some of the broach markings are not in parallel, or just too frequent. Flint "V" has a strange appearance to it, maybe I'm just too paranoid ? I do admit the stamp looks good, and certainly I haven't seen every pad stamping in existence, either -

Regards,
Steve
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 01, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
There are some additional stampings to the extreme left side of the pad - I see a "45", could be a machine shop marking, but it does raise an eyebrow. Pad surface look a little artificial, some of the broach markings are not in parallel, or just too frequent. Flint "V" has a strange appearance to it, maybe I'm just too paranoid ? I do admit the stamp looks good, and certainly I haven't seen every pad stamping in existence, either -

Regards,
Steve

The 'broach marks' raised my eyebrows a little too...  :)    a fairly good 'fake' broach maybe?
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: mivy on January 01, 2018, 10:48:03 PM
Thanks everyone for the replies.  Steve, you have good eyes my friend!   After you mentioned additional numbers on the deck next to the partial VIN I went back and studied the picture again and I can actually make out a ď26Ē pretty clearly.   Iím not sure what that means and why it is so faint but itís definitely something to be suspect about. 
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: bcmiller on January 02, 2018, 01:02:45 AM
Engine pad should be completely clean for a good evaluation.
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: cook_dw on January 02, 2018, 01:59:43 PM
A clean pad and a whole shot of the pad will help.  It could be as simple as a 2nd strike of the gang stamp.  BUT I would not assume anything in todays age.
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: racernhra on January 02, 2018, 03:06:46 PM
Hello all.

My name is Kevin and I am the owner of the car in question. I sent Mark here to verify what I was telling him was correct and was surprised by some of the responses. But, it is to be expected and I would expect nothing less if there is any doubt. I am a lurker here and have gathered a wealth of information regarding Camaros. I do not have a lot of expertise to add, other than what I have learned here and the .NET site. However, I love Camaros and I am committed to maintaining the integrity of the cars, including my own, even if it means personal loss. My integrity and my word are much more important than money, as well as keeping this hobby as honest as possible.

With that said, this morning I disassembled portions of my car and took several pictures of the stamp. I cleaned it as best as I could with non-caustic cleaners to hopefully provide a clearer image of what I have. The picture in question was taken approximately 2003 prior to taking the engine to the machinist. I wanted to make sure that I had a record of the pad stamp in the event something happened and is not that great of quality. The link below is what I took this morning.

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ao0YvGUdTJoIlnloN7-XPPZvNuAO

I was able to get a picture of the casting but not the date as I was pressed for time. I did include my notes from approximately 2004 when I decoded the numbers from the block itself.

For some history, I purchased the car in 2002 and restoration had begun. Prior to me getting the car, it had not been registered since 12/1978 and I have a scan of the pink slip that I received at that time. The car did not come with documentation of any kind but had all original parts that you would typically find with an SS to include the original air cleaner and valve covers. It also had all of the original badging, steering wheel, and tell-tell signs of being an SS to include the brake proportioning valve under the driver's seat and 28 coil spring hood. These items came with the car that I verified after purchase as I did not know about these attributes prior.

From the NCRS data report, this car was produced on 7/17/1968 and delivered to Grant Bishop Chevrolet in Los Gatos, CA. I purchased the car in Los Gatos so I am of the belief the car spent its life in a rather small area.

I am open to any questions and will answer as best as I can, to the best of my knowledge.

I am open to any questions and discussion and will answer all questions that I can.

I will be getting in touch with Jerry Macneigh to inquire about his services
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: cook_dw on January 02, 2018, 03:22:00 PM
Something was stamped there at one time from what I can see.  I almost wanna say it looks like a trans stamp.  Do you have that info?  Also zoom in just below the partial vin.  Are my eyes playing tricks?


Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: racernhra on January 02, 2018, 04:39:21 PM
Darrell,

A case that came with the car was a 3851325. I researched at the time and learned this would have not been correct so I didnít use it. There were some very odd numbers stamped on it but I didnít give it much time as I knew it was wrong.
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: Petes L48 on January 02, 2018, 05:45:45 PM
I recall on my 67 L48 block there were a couple stamps around the machined surface of the block where the intake seats.  I believe it was John Z who said those were engine plant inspection markings.  Just a random thought, but has anyone ever seen those up near the front stamp pad as well, and might be these phantom stampings sometimes observed?  But I think mine were toward the rear side of the block.  Just a SWAG.     
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 02, 2018, 06:08:36 PM
When I first looked at the engine pad, my thought was that the 'broach marks' were 'too distinct'.. and looked a little weird to me (compared to others I've examined)...   After looking more and at the new photos and doing more comparison, I stand by my initial thought (broach marks look 'different' than others I've seen/examined), BUT.. thinking about all the information presented on this car/engine, IF I were looking at this car for purchase, I don't think I'd let such doubts stand in my way of purchase...  FWIW...   If it's a 'fake', it's a pretty dang good one, and from the current owner's info, if it was 'faked', it was done a LONG time ago... and I doubt an earlier owner of this SS would have taken such steps and missed the date by 6-7 months.  It's more likely that it's a real engine for the car, just at the extreme of the engine datiing...
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: BULLITT65 on January 02, 2018, 10:55:22 PM
So... Have Gary look at it and he will certify it! ;D J/K

Curious other than Jerry, and Steve S, are there other known (trusted) guys that will certify a first gen.
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: maroman on January 02, 2018, 11:36:13 PM
Gary W. , you brought up something I was going to ask. If they went to so much trouble why would they miss the date by so much?
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: Charley on January 03, 2018, 01:27:35 AM
Looks real to me.
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: bcmiller on January 03, 2018, 01:30:25 AM
Gary W. , you brought up something I was going to ask. If they went to so much trouble why would they miss the date by so much?

Maybe the assembly/engine code stamp is original and the partial VIN is not?  Or vice-versa.  MAYBE.

Restamping has been going on for a LONG time. 

I can't say one way or the other on this one. Even if I was there in person, I am not sure I could.  I might be able to be more sure, but it would require the head to be taken off.
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: 69Z28-RS on January 03, 2018, 03:27:54 AM
So... Have Gary look at it and he will certify it! ;D J/K


Yep, bring it to me and I'll be glad to do so..  :)
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: BillOhio on January 03, 2018, 03:34:15 AM
Would be interesting to see if the whole deck has similar broach marks
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: Jon Mello on January 03, 2018, 03:40:58 AM
Looks real to me also.
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: racernhra on January 03, 2018, 06:47:35 AM
I spoke with the gentleman that owned this car from approximately 1987 to 2001. I hadnít talked to him in probably 10 years and those conversations consisted of me asking about documentation and the original transmission to see if he might have anything laying around.

I asked him details as to how he got the car and he stated that he bought the car out of the classifieds for $1500. At that time he stated the motor and transmission were out of the car but that both had been rebuilt. He put the car in the barn and then a container inside his shop where it sat until about 2001 when he sold it.

I bought the car from the next owner who stated the motor had been rebuilt. Thinking back he didnít say when and I didnít ask, I just assumed it was recent. While restoring the car I decided to disassemble the motor. I remember being glad I did as there was some slight corrosion in the cylinders and on the crankshaft and it didnít look ďfreshĒ like you would expect a rebuilt motor to look. I had it bored to clean the cylinders, new pistons, rings, pushrods, bearings, rockers, etc. Iím going to get in touch with the gentleman that I bought the car directly from and ask him to see if he did anything to the motor but putting this all together leads me to believe he didnít. If he didnít, this would mean the engine hadnít been touched since the mid eighties prior to me getting the car.

Iím also going to look back at pictures and see how fresh the engine paint looked. I donít know if I have any of the block without the heads on or not.



Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: paceme on January 03, 2018, 05:19:06 PM
Looks OK to me as well.
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: KurtS on January 08, 2018, 08:33:32 AM
Late to the party, but I've known about the car for years. It's the original pad. VIN is right, as is the engine stamp.
Yes, the date is off, but say la V.
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: mivy on January 08, 2018, 02:02:45 PM
Hi Kurt.  If you don't mind me asking...what's your history with the car?
Title: Re: 68 SS350 numbers help
Post by: KurtS on January 09, 2018, 06:49:16 AM
Kevin provided data and pics soon after he bought it.