CRG Discussion Forum

Model Specific Discussions => Foreign Camaros => Topic started by: Tom76 on December 01, 2017, 10:00:24 PM

Title: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: Tom76 on December 01, 2017, 10:00:24 PM
Hello,

I come from Switzerland and have been on the search for clues of General Motors of Switzerland for 5 years.
So far, I've talked to 5 former GM Suisse employees and gained so much information.
In addition, I was able to visit 2 of the 3 GM archives.
The homologation center in Switzerland for GM is the DTC ( Dynamic Test Center ) in Vauffelin, Canton Bern.
Here the cars were checked and so the "type certificates" created.

In 1967 the Camaro was assembled in Biel as the only year *.
These were available from 01.01.1967.
And only in 3 versions:

- 12637 with MJ (2-speed automatic transmission) 283-Cui. V-8 (Deluxe)
- 12637 with MD (4-speed manual) 283-Cui. V-8 (Deluxe)
- 12537 with 4-speed manual transmission 230-Cui. L-6 (Deluxe)

The total number created is unknown, but will only exceed the 200 mark by a few.

There were 4 Camaros available:
- 12637 283-Cui. V-8 automatic or manual CH version 22'500 CHF
- 12637 283-Cui. V-8 automatic or manual control normal execution CHF 17'500
- 12337 230-Cui. L-6 manual transmission CH version 19'950 CHF
- 12537 230-Cui. L-6 manual transmission normal execution 16'500 CHF

And on special request:
- 12337 250-Cui. L-6 US version manual and automatic
- 12437 350-Cui. V8 SS US version manual and automatic
- 12437 327-Cui. V-8 US version manual and automatic
- 12437 327-Cui. V-8 RS US version manual and automatic
- 12437 396-Cui. V-8 SS US version manual and automatic

The difference between normal and CH execution was due to the standard options offered.

CH version includes:

- Slice shower
- Windscreen wiper 2 levels
- Rear windows defroster
- reversing lights
- Engine and trunk lighting
- Reduction Rear Axle  3.08: 1
- Limited Slip Diff.
- Disc brakes in front
- Power Brake
- Power steering

Grtz Tom


* In 1968 Camaro's were also assembled in Biel. These came not as SUP (Single Unit Pack) but as CKD to Switzerland.
The same chassis were used as in 1967! These were available from 27.10.1967.
Here the number is also unknown. But it will be less than the 67er models.
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: Tom76 on December 01, 2017, 10:36:36 PM
An Example of the Swiss TAG "GENERAL MOTORS SUISSE S.A. BIENNE" .
I have that decoding. The color and the interior is and remains a secret ...
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: HOT3O2 on December 02, 2017, 12:00:04 AM
Thanks Tom, Appreciate you post this information.
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: Tom76 on December 03, 2017, 02:36:34 PM
Another information about the additional headlamps under the bumper.
A law in Switzerland states that a fog lamp must be installed, at least 100mm above the ground.
That got ONLY for Switzerland! No export car that came to Italy, France or Austria had that.

The GM plant in Biel built a few models of the GM range for the three countries.

That Pre-Assembling USA, Final Assembling in Switzerland and delivery to the other country (Italy, France and Austria).

If someone wants the Swiss registration information "Typenschen" (comparable with AMA-Spec) of the 67-69 Camaro, just send a PM.

Grtz Tom
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: Tom76 on December 04, 2017, 08:28:23 PM
The Post 3 is hard to read.
I Make this a little bid bigger :-)

Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: Tom76 on December 04, 2017, 08:34:33 PM
I Have found This Production Program from Switzerland of the 1967 !
It's really Cool Stuff and not not easy to get!
It is from one of the many archives of GM-Suisse, and NOT for the public.

Shit happens ...

 8)

Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: Tom76 on April 25, 2018, 08:07:54 PM
Hello everybody,
a little update in between ....

Known numbers:

1960 Corvair 536, Impala 138, unknown 198 pieces
1961 Impala 268, unknown 814
1962 Corvair 360, Impala 538, unknown 804
1963 Corvair 81, Impala 259, Chevy-ll 649, unknown 648
1964 Corvair 54, Chevelle 422, unknown 1488
1965 Corvair 7, unknown 820
1966 Corvair 30, Chevy-ll 7, Chevelle 335, unknown 584
1967 Camaro 199, Chevy-ll 87, Corvair 19, Impala 22, unknown 145
1968 Camaro 163, Chevy-ll 173, unknown 7

I know that I'm least of the Camaro's, the REL. at the 67er models (chassis!) from 01.01.1967 counts.
The 68er models from 21.09.1967.
It is also clear that the Camaro has succeeded in tranches and so in production.
That a number of Camaro's were put on the assembly line next.

I have 2 plaques of 68 Camaro's lie in front of me (photo of course) with the following numbers of the REL.:

J-666-6 and J-666-8 the chassis number S9-685XXX is also different around the 2.
This supports my statement.

Moreover, the theoretical date of construction is July 4, 1969. They are redeemed exactly one month later.
This fits in with GM Suisse's delivery strategy during this time.

Grtz Tom
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: bcmiller on April 25, 2018, 09:56:39 PM
Thanks Tom.
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: Tom76 on May 03, 2018, 05:43:38 PM
The information is just flying :-)

1967 Camaro old: 199, New 214.

Grtz Tom
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: Tom76 on July 28, 2018, 07:59:55 PM
Hi all,

Today I was able to watch the only known 67er Camaro with L-6 engine!
Thus, the type certificate 5667 is also clear as with the model number 12337, respectively 12537 is meant.

12337 Import, not assembled in Switzerland
12537 CKD, assembly in Switzerland.

In addition, the Swiss-Camaro 2 rear lights were mounted under the rear bumper.
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: MO on July 29, 2018, 04:14:17 AM
Very cool!
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: ZLP955 on July 29, 2018, 09:58:13 AM
Was that a supplementary brake light, turn signal, or ? for the Swiss homologation?
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: Tom76 on July 29, 2018, 12:53:32 PM
This is just a reflector, without electrical function.
In Switzerland, a vehicle had to be clearly visible and, according to the EJPD (Federal Department of Justice and Police), also recognized as such!

That means in plain text: The Reflected surface must be proportional to the vehicle. For the 67 Camaro the 39.2cm2 (= 15.43307 inches).

The type certificate 5667 also states:
Modified by the importer; Stand lights are combined with flashing lights, reflectors are mounted separately.

The Swiss take it exactly ;-)

Grtz Tom
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: ZLP955 on July 30, 2018, 01:48:12 PM
Ok thanks for the explanation Tom! Very interesting
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: KurtS on August 11, 2018, 06:26:16 AM
Tom,
Thanks for the info. I did not know what countries that Biel shipped cars to. Just for reference, a lot of Swiss production info is already on the site at http://www.camaros.org/foreign.shtml#swiss

I don't mean to be negative, but there are some conflicts in your information and some errors.
All the 67 and 68's assembled there came in as CKD's. If they got a Swiss VIN, they were Swiss assembled.
That tag is decoded on the CRG page.  Los Angeles had nothing to do with Camaro exports.
MD and MJ were Camaro specific engines, not Impala. Impala engines have the wrong manifolds on them.
The release number is not the date, but the XCO (666th day of the year?).
The decode says that X308 is black. It is actually white exterior.

Any records of how many SUPs (complete assembled units from Norwood) were imported for any year?
During 68, the tag changes from TS/BT for the Type Certificate to CH with a number in a different format (CH 333-03). What does CH mean?
Btw, I know of two Swiss 67 L6 cars. What I haven't seen is any 68 L6 cars.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: Tom76 on August 11, 2018, 11:31:50 AM
The cars assembled in Biel in the years 1947 - 1963 were exported from Switzerland to the following countries: Austria, Yugoslavia and Italy.

From 1964, it was produced exclusively for the Swiss market (Source: On a Global Mission Volume 3, Site 1127).

The CKD and SUP I have probably confused something, Sorry.

Aslo, CKD is a prefabricated car which in turn is disassembled for shipment. At the destination is rebuilt together. Correct?
And SUP are undefined on an Ato, so miscible with all the other parts?

The LA did not come from me, but from a mechanic at GM Suisse. This is because some chassis were built there for capacity reasons. How far this is true, I can not judge.

I read that from a book published in Switzerland.
Maybe that's wrong.

The with the XCO is not clear what that should be concrete.
Where does this XCO come from, or otherwise you can explain to me what exactly that is?

The '67 Camaro had the same platform as the Chevrolet Nova from 1966. This included the bottom group, windshield / splashboard to the rear.
This started production in 1965 for the 66 models. The 1968 Camaro had the same chassis as the '67 (unless I read it correctly).
This read this date code because it counted from day one.
And since this chassis min. 2 years was built for 1967 + 9168, could theoretically code 730 (instead of 666) exist.
At Opel, this was partly practiced, depending on the model.
That's what my theory is based on.

This is supported by a recent example of the last known CH-Camaro from 1967:

This one has the release number J-294-22. Assuming that the 01.01.1967 has the release code J-1-1, for the first Camaro, the 294th day would be the 18 October 1967.
This fits so far, as the cars were delivered about 8-10 weeks after completion!
The 1st Inverkstag is January 1968 and is doing well there.

This one has the release number J-294-22. Assuming that the 01.01.1967 has the release code J-1-1, for the first Camaro, the 294th day would be the 18 October 1967.
This fits so far, as the cars were delivered about 8-10 weeks after completion!
The 1st Inverkstag is January 1968 and is doing well there.

The X308 behaves like this:
Under www.low-rider.ch exactly the Camaro is shown with the chassis S9-675199.
There he is in black and red interior.
Whether the original is can not be determined.
I assumed that it is original.

So far 214 Camaro from 1967 are known (highest chassis number).

The change of TS. BT ("Typen Schein" and "Bordereau Type") in the CH had the reason in the system of the DTC (Dynamic test Center = GM certificate maker of typing).
Due to the variety of models from about 1968, the system was changed to CH. On the type certificate is the following:
Swiss Type Testing Commission for Motor Vehicles ( In German: Eidgenösische Typenprüfungskommision fuer Motorfahrzeuge )

If you could give me the second Camaro with L-6 di chassis number, or the GM Suisse S.A. Bienne, I would be happy.

The forum is there to discuss. I think it's good that you address that, because you are the one who has the deeper knowledge of the Camaros!

I appreciate that very much and actually want the same thing as you:

To solve the mysteries of CH-Camaros :-)

Grtz Tom
Title: Re: Swiss Camaro, Explanations
Post by: Tom76 on September 23, 2018, 08:13:50 PM
hello Kurt,

in the post "Swiss Camaro" and the Camaro tour de suisse,
Can you write me in which literature you found this?
In the near future I will go to the archive of the "Swiss Car Register" in Switzerland.
I could possibly find something to it.

Tom